Will USA vice president-elect bring 'controversy about evolution' into schools in USA??

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: SuperFrog

Seems unlikely.

When was the last time a sitting vice-president was anything other than a place holder?

During the Cheney-Bush administration. Cheney personally chose Iraqi targets to bomb. Pence is a much more adept administrator than Trump, with more Washington connections.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: SuperFrog

Trump has made it clear that he has no plans to decide what is taught in schools.
Quite the opposite.
He wants to get the Federal Government out of deciding what is taught and let the local communities decide that.
No more Federal indoctrination. That's a good thing.

Seriously, people need to stop spreading disinfo and freaking out over nothing.

Topic is not what Trump plans to decide, but his VP, who was very loud about it. You are bit off topic.

How moving decision to state level will help education??

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BlueAjah

No more Federal indoctrination. That's a good thing.

Just community indoctrination. That's can be a bad thing.

Trump also wants school choice.
That means that if you don't like what one school is teaching, you would be free to send your child to another school.
The whole plan sounds much more American, and closer to what our forefathers planned for this country.
Communities should be able to teach their children according to their beliefs.
We should never have one central Federal government deciding what should be taught to our children.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Trump also wants school choice.
That means that if you don't like what one school is teaching, you would be free to send your child to another school.
The whole plan sounds much more American, and closer to what our forefathers planned for this country.
Communities should be able to teach their children according to their beliefs.
We should never have one central Federal government deciding what should be taught to our children.

That will really make America 'great' again... not. We are already 'far' behind developed world, including emerging countries in education. This will just further un-educate masses in time when without proper education you are doomed in today's market/economy.

What belief has to do with 'education'?

a reply to: SuperFrog

School choice will make schools more competitive.
This will require schools to do a better job or lose students.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Communities should be able to teach their children according to their beliefs.

Would you say the same thing about genital mutilation and honour killings?

"Big" Dick Cheney! Need I say more?

I see DJ beat me to it so I'll modify my comment and say that: Yes Dubya was a very ineffective VP.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: SuperFrog

School choice will make schools more competitive.
This will require schools to do a better job or lose students.

So you are saying schools should be privatized? Who pays for it? How do you get school choice in a public school system?

Could you expand on your thoughts here

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Communities should be able to teach their children according to their beliefs.

Would you say the same thing about genital mutilation and honour killings?

That's absurd.

originally posted by: BlueAjah

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Communities should be able to teach their children according to their beliefs.

Would you say the same thing about genital mutilation and honour killings?

That's absurd.

It's in the bible to stone children, kill adulterers, and other nasty stuff. So if you have a community of fundamentalists, your rhetoric IS saying that they have the right to teach that behavior to their children.

a reply to: Kukri

A school voucher system for private schools.
And allowing students to choose the public school of their choice.
A public school gets funding according to how many students they have.

www.edchoice.org...

School choice allows public education funds to follow students to the schools or services that best fit their needs—whether that’s to a public school, private school, charter school, home school or any other learning environment parents choose for their kids.

Types of School Choice

Types of School Choice
THERE ARE MORE THAN YOU MIGHT THINK

Families who can afford it often choose their neighborhood public schools by moving to a residence within their desired school’s assigned district. For many families, that option is enough. But there are many more ways for families to choose the best educational setting for their kids.

Scroll down to learn more about how the many educational options are funded and how families can access them. Remember, every state is different, so be sure to click through to our additional information and resources.

Education Savings Accounts (ESAs)

ESAs allow parents to withdraw their children from public district or charter schools and receive a deposit of public funds into government-authorized savings accounts with restricted, but multiple, uses. Those funds—often distributed to families via debit card—can cover private school tuition and fees, online learning programs, private tutoring, community college costs, higher education expenses and other approved customized learning services and materials. Some ESAs, but not all, even allow students to use their funds to pay for a combination of public school courses and private services.

School Vouchers

Vouchers give parents the freedom to choose a private school for their children, using all or part of the public funding set aside for their children’s education. Under such a program, funds typically expended by a school district would be allocated to a participating family in the form of a voucher to pay partial or full tuition for their child’s private school, including both religious and non-religious options.

Tax-Credit Scholarships

Tax-credit scholarships allow taxpayers to receive full or partial tax credits when they donate to nonprofits that provide private school scholarships. Eligible taxpayers can include both individuals and businesses. In some states, scholarship-giving nonprofits also provide innovation grants to public schools and/or transportation assistance to students choosing alternative public schools.

Individual Tax Credits and Deductions

Individual tax credits and deductions allow parents to receive state income tax relief for approved educational expenses, which can include private school tuition, books, supplies, computers, tutors and transportation.

Charter Schools

Charter schools are independently run public schools exempt from many rules and regulations in exchange for increased accountability. Typically, if charters receive more applications than they have open seats, they must accept students based on a lottery. Families do not need to use ESAs, vouchers or tax-credit scholarships to pay to enroll their children in charter schools as these schools are already publicly funded.

Magnet Schools

A magnet school is a public school that offers specialized curricula and programs not available in traditional neighborhood public schools. Magnets are designed to attract students with a common interest or skillset, and students must apply and be accepted to enroll. Families do not need to use ESAs, vouchers or tax-credit scholarships to pay to enroll their children in magnet schools as these schools are already publicly funded.

Inter/Intra-District Public School Choice

Sometimes referred to as open enrollment, inter- and intra-district choice laws allow families to choose traditional public schools other than the ones the government assigned based on their ZIP Codes. Intra-district choice, allows families to choose from among more than one public school within their assigned district. Inter-district choice allows families to send their children to any traditional public school in their resident state or a defined region. Typically, these open enrollment options still allow public schools to give enrollment preference to students within their assigned district lines.

Homeschooling

Homeschooling is an alternative form of education for children outside of public or private schools, typically within their own homes. Homeschooling is regulated differently from state to state.

Online Learning

Online learning allows students to work with their curriculum and teachers over the Internet—in combination with, or in place of, traditional classroom learning. Online schools can be public or private. Families may also use some educational choice options, such as ESAs and vouchers, to pay for online and virtual schooling.

Customized Learning

Customized learning is unique to every child. As an example, some students might use ESA or course choice programs to mix courses from public schools with privately tutored classes at home, online courses, special education therapies and a work-study internship. The possibilities are endless, especially as new innovations in learning continue to emerge.


Town Tuitioning

Generally speaking, town tuitioning allows students who live in towns that don’t have district public schools to receive their per-pupil education tax dollars to pay tuition at a neighboring town’s public school or a private school of their choice—sometimes even across state lines for families who live close to state borders. This type of school choice functions much like a school voucher, and only a handful of rural states in the northeast use it. Learn more about how town tuitioning works in the oldest program in the nation below.

a reply to: BlueAjah

Thanks for the quick and well written reply.

I was unaware of the options for U.S. education and funding. Quite impressive I must say as to the best of my knowledge we don't have such options in Canada. (not a parent so never needed to explore the choices).

It would seem you have a lot of viable alternatives for securing a suitable education for your children/dependents which is reassuring.

Thanks again:
Mike

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: SuperFrog

Trump has made it clear that he has no plans to decide what is taught in schools.
Quite the opposite.
He wants to get the Federal Government out of deciding what is taught and let the local communities decide that.
No more Federal indoctrination. That's a good thing.

Seriously, people need to stop spreading disinfo and freaking out over nothing.

Last I checked, this thread was about Pence, not Trump. The vice president is one heartbeat away from the presidency.

Plus I can't possibly see how this is a good thing. So basically any old town can choose what to teach / not teach its children, regardless of whether or not it is real? That's a bad thing. You will basically have tons of southern / midwest communities forcing religion as science on children. That is very bad. Education is not indoctrination. They are quite different. If people want to send their children to private schools, that's fine, but you can' publicly fund a school that teaches religion as science and refuses to teach science like evolution. It's a terrible plan and will only lead us to further decline in education numbers. The founding fathers in no way wanted our country to have mandated religion, and this plan will lead to that in certain areas.

originally posted by: Barcs
Plus I can't possibly see how this is a good thing. So basically any old town can choose what to teach / not teach its children, regardless of whether or not it is real? That's a bad thing. You will basically have tons of southern / midwest communities forcing religion as science on children. That is very bad. Education is not indoctrination. They are quite different. If people want to send their children to private schools, that's fine, but you can' publicly fund a school that teaches religion as science and refuses to teach science like evolution.

As crazy as your boogeyman theory is here, sadly it is exactly what has been holding up reforms for decades. Ironically, your idea is unscientific. No evidence supports that it will happen. No evidence supports that it has happened wherever school choice reform has happened.

Look for example at college education, where school choice is 100% of the market. No, Notre Dame and Brigham Young do not teach that evolution does not exist etc. So even most schools with some significant religious affiliation are not the nightmare you are concerned with. Would you be willing to close most colleges just because of a few outliers like Liberty University (the Jerry Falwell one, iirc)? There's really nothing to be afraid of. There are already standards even for home schooling and opening up the market for schools will not exempt anybody from accreditation issues.

Furthermore, your reactionary stance plays right into the hands of every local kleptocrat who is ripping off kids already. Teachers lack supplies, books are old, and administrators are well paid because nobody can touch them. There is no choice so there is no way out for the students trapped in their districts. In the worst cases, these greedy administrators are connected to local political machines; they are literally the worst sort of well connected pigs at the local trough.

What your irrational fears are standing in the way of mostly is allowing young, brilliant teachers from good schools to get together with a few like minded colleagues and start their own schools that get better results by providing kids with access to the latest and greatest in education reforms and advancements. They can have more say on spending as well as pedagogical philosophy and practice. With a school choice system in place, they can take initiative and make real progress for improving things for kids.

a reply to: DJW001

Are you actually going to sit there and tell me that Cheney was a typical VP? He was nothing of the sort.

Most of them are funeral attending, state delivering, sit in the Senate, cyphers. In four years, or eight years, yes he'll be a factor.

The education system, such as it is, as pitiful as it is, is in little to no danger from the VP-elect. If you must worry, worry about the Dept of Education, or Congress, or even **gasp** your local school boards.

a reply to: seagull

Are you actually going to sit there and tell me that Cheney was a typical VP? He was nothing of the sort.

I didn't say he was typical. Trump will not be a typical President either. He is all about sitting on expensive furniture, waving to crowds, and being photographed with important people. Pence will do the actual organizing and the Wall Street insiders and Neo-cons in the cabinet will determine the policies.

a reply to: 11andrew34

If I remember correctly, all reports I sad in past year about charter schools shows that they are under-performing, with high turnover of educators and school seems to be just 'money grab' rather then educational organization.

On a positive side, Ben Carson has declined offered position (it was not education tho), and negative side, we don't know who will be named for this position, but from choices so far, nothing good will come out of this train-wreck...

If this happens it will mean you get less of the brightest from around the world. I can see the usa losing out to those you used to need so much.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
...and has said schools should teach the “controversy” around evolution.

of course they should. The best thing that happened to spirituality was when religion was being questioned - when people believe in things they don't understand, they suffer. Similarly, when people believe in theories that are incorrect and pervert their view on reality, they suffer.

The fact that any of you think that evolution shouldn't be questioned is evident of how the ominously dogmatic this theory has become.

I am not worried though, the truth will shine through eventually.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
...and has said schools should teach the “controversy” around evolution.

DP (I'm not the descendant of a billion year old microbe and neither are you)