I Didn't Realize How Bad It Was

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: RedCairo

Um. The people voted the guy into office in a landslide.

Landslide? He won, but it doesn't mean we can't still stick to the facts

Well, I considered 290 to 228 when every source was predicting HRC had a 70-85% lead to be a landslide -- comparative to what was expected anyway (L.A. Times predicted 352 for HRC), but you're right it is merely a clear win and not a landslide if we're just looking at electoral votes and nothing else.

As we are a democratic republic and not a democracy I never refer to the popular vote. Also, because there are more women than men in this country, and because the population is so dramatically dense in coast vs. inland, I don't actually believe it would be just to use a popular vote. I would be fine with using one vote per state, even though so many of the upper east coast are tiny little states and that would skew it in favor of blue (but he'd have still won 29:22). I might also consider it fair to do a count per-square-mile of territory in the USA (although that would be better grouped at the county level if we were going to get that granular, rather than the state level, but he still would have won on either number). I also think if we ever were going to go to a popular vote there would need to be a certain margin -- at least half a percent -- for any clear win, just due to the amount of error in the system when you are talking about >121 million votes. But, it doesn't matter, it's done.

If there were ever something to make people revolt, it would be having a campaign where it seemed more money and the mass media were all on one side, and the other winning anyway, and then having the whined-loud-enough response of the losing side actually cause something like electoral folks "changing the votes" later. For the sake of our country I really hope nothing like that comes to pass.

RC

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog
a reply to: JustinT
Trump Supporters were informing Trump/Pence at rallies that if they didn't win they were going to start the next revolution. So yeah, would have happened either way.

I see this election itself as a bloodless revolution.

RC

Watch CNN now. Total melt down about Bannon appt. Literally shouting racist and wife beater over and over again.... Blaming Trump for the KKK again. It's hilarious in one respect but also very dangerous to be inciting people with pure hysteria.

a reply to: Metallicus

I left the Democrats this time around because they embraced the elite, corruption, lies, etc. The DNC has lost its way and needs real reform. i see more progress under Republicans and Trump than under the Dems.

Bernie took it in the butt and said thank you, how can i help Hillary. See what I mean. Dems sold themselves out to corruption. They have a long way to go to get back peoples trust and mine.

originally posted by: UKTruth
Watch CNN now. Total melt down about Bannon appt. Literally shouting racist and wife beater over and over again.... Blaming Trump for the KKK again. It's hilarious in one respect but also very dangerous to be inciting people with pure hysteria.

If the media keeps this up, people will tune out. Did they not notice that the majority of America voted for Trump? Shooting their own viewers constantly is no good for revenues.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: RedCairo

Um. The people voted the guy into office in a landslide.

Landslide? He won, but it doesn't mean we can't still stick to the facts

:-)


Donald Trump won the presidency of the United States on Tuesday, after a long, hard battle against the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton. Yet although Mr. Trump’s victory is signed, sealed, and delivered following Mrs. Clinton’s concession speech on Wednesday, votes are still being counted, giving her a substantial and growing lead in the popular vote.

Oh, you mean like the fact that her lead in the popular vote is a result of the votes from states she already won? Thus proving the effectiveness, and the necessity of the Electoral College from preventing a few population centers from DICTATING their will on the rest of the US.

That fact?

a reply to: Metallicus

You know who I blame for the # we are in, the media!! They told everyone Hillary was going to win, basically. They got the liberals all hyped up, hell in another message board I frequent, the women thought she was going to win, and they were nasty about it, and they are bitchy now!! I cannot even go on that board without being attacked.

Also for weeks before the election, Hillary will win, and they kept repeating that over and over! Now look what she is doung, blaming the FBI for her loss, and that bitch knows she is not innocent! Sobyes, I fully blame the media for letting the monkeys out if the csge! It's getting stupid now!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: poncho1982

Actually, he didn't reverse himself on anything, the things he said about Obamacare, and what parts to keep, he's said before. It was no surprise.

Can you direct us to where we might find Trump's reassuring words, promising that he'll keep those 2 parts, pre-existing condition and adult children remaining on the policy, of the ACA?

He said it last night in a 60 minutes interview.

The bizzare thing is that what he is describing is the fundamental pillars of Obamacare.

You cannot require insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions without a mandate requiring people to get insurance.

Nine states attempted to require insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions without including a mandate in the 1990s and those insurance companies exited the market.

Strangely what Trump described last night in keeping the prohibition on the insurance companies discriminating against pre-existing conditions plus letting the kids stay on their parents Plan appears to be simply Obamacare.

What he is proposing is keeping Obamacare and slapping the Trump name on it similar to his real estate ventures.

Given that conservatives in polls concerning Obamacare often rate the Affordable care act higher than Obamacare despite them being the same thing that strategy might actually succeed with his base.

I don't expect any conservative ATS posters here to call him out on the scam. They will celebrate and defend Trumpcare in six months time despite it being fundamentally identical to Obamacare but with continuing perhaps larger rate hikes.

I mourn the death of principles more than anything in this election.

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: RedCairo

Um. The people voted the guy into office in a landslide.

Landslide? He won, but it doesn't mean we can't still stick to the facts

:-)


Donald Trump won the presidency of the United States on Tuesday, after a long, hard battle against the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton. Yet although Mr. Trump’s victory is signed, sealed, and delivered following Mrs. Clinton’s concession speech on Wednesday, votes are still being counted, giving her a substantial and growing lead in the popular vote.

Oh, you mean like the fact that her lead in the popular vote is a result of the votes from states she already won? Thus proving the effectiveness, and the necessity of the Electoral College from preventing a few population centers from DICTATING their will on the rest of the US.

That fact?

Interestingly Trump has called The electoral college a disaster for our democracy. He double down on that opinion last night while at the same time admitting that faulted system allowed him to win.

originally posted by: liliththedestroyer
a reply to: Metallicus

You know who I blame for the # we are in, the media.

Two things..Landline polls are dead and the death of newspapers that used to report the state of rural America created huge blind spots hiding discontent.

A media fail, but not by intent.

You should be thankful for that fail. If they had reported accurately how tight the race was Trump likely would not have won. If just 1 of every 100 Trump voters had voted HRC she would have swept all the swing states.

When the majority of the population votes one way but the other guy wins, you will see anger and protests. That's not the medias fault.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I now have to admit that I was completely wrong. I always assumed we were talking with intellectual opponents people that really meant what they said...they loved America and Democracy...we had different ideas how to make America great, but we respected the process. Now I see now I was wrong.

You see, in the past when people lost elections they simply rolled up their sleeves and tried to find a better way forward. That way didn't include beating up an old man at the polls, beating down a high school sophomore for her social media post or tearing up buildings and neighborhoods in what can only be called domestic terrorism.

We shook hands with our opponent and said...we will get you next time.

What is going on now is...unnerving. It is surreal.

Now I wonder how bad it would have been had Clinton actually won. I suppose I was naive because look at the establishment Republicans, Democrats and Media all colluding to make sure someone other than their 'chosen one' wouldn't win.

Now I see it...we are fighting pure evil, fascists on the left, but when even JOURNALISTS call for Presidents to be assassinated I have to wonder can I ever have respect for my opponents again? They surely don't respect me.

I am sad that it has come to this...we are ALL in danger people. The Left has gone off the rails with their identity politics, disrespectful name calling and violence.

Sad.

These last 8 years and Republican obstructionism, rampant and unfounded conspiracy theories, and general rudeness towards the left paint you as a HUGE hypocrite.

Your candidate was threatening to not accept the election if he lost and you guys were readily backing that opinion, so AGAIN you are being hypocritical. Just because Trump won doesn't mean you have the high ground here.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I now have to admit that I was completely wrong. I always assumed we were talking with intellectual opponents people that really meant what they said...they loved America and Democracy...we had different ideas how to make America great, but we respected the process. Now I see now I was wrong.
You see, in the past when people lost elections they simply rolled up their sleeves and tried to find a better way forward. That way didn't include beating up an old man at the polls, beating down a high school sophomore for her social media post or tearing up buildings and neighborhoods in what can only be called domestic terrorism.
We shook hands with our opponent and said...we will get you next time.
What is going on now is...unnerving. It is surreal.
Now I wonder how bad it would have been had Clinton actually won. I suppose I was naive because look at the establishment Republicans, Democrats and Media all colluding to make sure someone other than their 'chosen one' wouldn't win.
Now I see it...we are fighting pure evil, fascists on the left, but when even JOURNALISTS call for Presidents to be assassinated I have to wonder can I ever have respect for my opponents again? They surely don't respect me.
I am sad that it has come to this...we are ALL in danger people. The Left has gone off the rails with their identity politics, disrespectful name calling and violence.
Sad.

You do realize the Republicans won. The left has been vanquished from government. We have one-party rule now. So relax. Who cares if the left goes off the rails. They have no power in this government. Eff 'em.

It's pretty amazing how the Democrats are pretty much completely removed from government. The power of gerrymandering is amazing. But Democrats have no one to blame but themselves since they started the gerrymandering craze back in the 70s. The Republicans just fought back harder use gerrymandering at whole new levels.

At least we no longer have divided government.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
These last 8 years and Republican obstructionism, rampant and unfounded conspiracy theories, and general rudeness towards the left paint you as a HUGE hypocrite.

Your candidate was threatening to not accept the election if he lost and you guys were readily backing that opinion, so AGAIN you are being hypocritical. Just because Trump won doesn't mean you have the high ground here.

The ends justify the means. Liberals and the left are responsible for everything that is bad in this country.

It will be very interesting the next election cycle to see who the Republicans blame for all the bad government policies. Now that they are in charge of everything with one-party rule you could argue they are now responsible for everything.

a reply to: dfnj2015
So basically you just told me that it is ok as long as your side is doing it.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
These last 8 years and Republican obstructionism, rampant and unfounded conspiracy theories, and general rudeness towards the left paint you as a HUGE hypocrite.

Your candidate was threatening to not accept the election if he lost and you guys were readily backing that opinion, so AGAIN you are being hypocritical. Just because Trump won doesn't mean you have the high ground here.

The ends justify the means. Liberals and the left are responsible for everything that is bad in this country.

It will be very interesting the next election cycle to see who the Republicans blame for all the bad government policies. Now that they are in charge of everything with one-party rule you could argue they are responsible for everything.

Wrong.

Its been 2 parties dancing iwth the devil for years. And this boat that we ended up sh*t creek in has 2 paddles. I mean, the trillions spent on the longest era of war in US history sits squarely on the shoulders of the GOP.

And Trump...makes the term "RINO" looks extremely far right. We have a fiscally conservative, socially liberal president. Not his biggest fan at all....but he does have the potential to be everything to everyone. Or blow it entirely

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: loam

Can't disagree in any way. You'd think that America's first African American president would be able to easily calm many of the frayed nerves and outrageous acts of violence and destruction we've witnessed over the past several years... you'd think that, but I guess it only works when said first African American president is more concerned with actually doing his job as leader of the country than he is concerned over his "cred" and how "cool" he is seen by these malcontents.

OMG, this is why folks over this side of the pond see the US as inherently racist. Why on earth would an AFRICAN american president be any more capable of calming the frayed nerves than a WHITE american president??????

Please tell me. Does his brown skin ooze some kind of calming aroma?

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Metallicus
I now have to admit that I was completely wrong. I always assumed we were talking with intellectual opponents people that really meant what they said...they loved America and Democracy...we had different ideas how to make America great, but we respected the process. Now I see now I was wrong.
You see, in the past when people lost elections they simply rolled up their sleeves and tried to find a better way forward. That way didn't include beating up an old man at the polls, beating down a high school sophomore for her social media post or tearing up buildings and neighborhoods in what can only be called domestic terrorism.
We shook hands with our opponent and said...we will get you next time.
What is going on now is...unnerving. It is surreal.
Now I wonder how bad it would have been had Clinton actually won. I suppose I was naive because look at the establishment Republicans, Democrats and Media all colluding to make sure someone other than their 'chosen one' wouldn't win.
Now I see it...we are fighting pure evil, fascists on the left, but when even JOURNALISTS call for Presidents to be assassinated I have to wonder can I ever have respect for my opponents again? They surely don't respect me.
I am sad that it has come to this...we are ALL in danger people. The Left has gone off the rails with their identity politics, disrespectful name calling and violence.
Sad.

At least we no longer have divided government.

Yes..And just one party to blame if the Unicorns and Rainbows the president elect has promised don't show up.

Will be curious what the spin strategy will be now the GOP has lost their scape-goats?

My prediction?...Blame brown people and then start a war to distract when people call BS.

First Rainbow on the plate...Trump has promised to immediately lower insurance rates...while keeping kids on their parents plans and keeping the prohibition against pre-existing conditions and insuring everyone...and eliminating the mandate that funds those items..So...Insurance companies that are already exiting the exchange because of low profit margins are going to?..Stay on the exchange and take trillion dollar losses?...Or is he going for single-payer, socialized medicine?

What he seems to be proposing is keeping Obamacare, but calling it Trumpcare...should be a tiny one-sentence bill, assuming he will back-off and keep the mandate, because doing otherwise will cause 95% of insurers to exit and rates to sky-rocket.

He can try the same and eliminate the mandate as promised...but that is an instantaneous sprint toward gov paid for healthcare as the markets will immediately collapse.

Mind you...this isn't "invading Mosul"...no need to for pretend secret plans here..just the opposite, the healthcare market is unstable until the GOP explain themselves.

Meanwhile..."Not a wall all the way..some parts will be a fence"..."No deportation force"..."deport hardcore criminals first and then re-asses"?...We already do that BTW and what happened to all "illegal" immigrants are "criminals" by definition.

Before you knee-jerk in a partisan way...remind yourself, I no longer have any horses in the race..The GOP and Trump 100% own the promises they made to you and those that voted for him.

Curious to see how the next few years work out.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
These last 8 years and Republican obstructionism, rampant and unfounded conspiracy theories, and general rudeness towards the left paint you as a HUGE hypocrite.

Your candidate was threatening to not accept the election if he lost and you guys were readily backing that opinion, so AGAIN you are being hypocritical. Just because Trump won doesn't mean you have the high ground here.

The ends justify the means. Liberals and the left are responsible for everything that is bad in this country.

It will be very interesting the next election cycle to see who the Republicans blame for all the bad government policies. Now that they are in charge of everything with one-party rule you could argue they are responsible for everything.

And Trump...makes the term "RINO" looks extremely far right. We have a fiscally conservative, socially liberal president. Not his biggest fan at all....but he does have the potential to be everything to everyone. Or blow it entirely

From his personal financial history to his proposed spending plans which every fiscal conservative panned as insane spending, I see no evidence that he is a Fiscal Conservative. Precisely the opposite. His spending proposals will add insane amounts to the deficit and his revenue strategies can be summed up with "don't worry about it".

originally posted by: dfnj2015

It will be very interesting the next election cycle to see who the Republicans blame for all the bad government policies. Now that they are in charge of everything with one-party rule you could argue they are now responsible for everything.

That's not gonna be a problem for them since they don't hold a 60% majority in the Senate.
They can still blame it on the Democrats.

Harte

originally posted by: Indigo5
...Or is he going for single-payer, socialized medicine?

If he intends on his plan of lowering the cost, keeping people covered with zero gap then yes, he's going to give us single-payer. We'll get Paul Ryan standing at his podium with Mitch McConnell behind him as Ryan's beaming, smiling face utters the words, 'It's what the American people want because this didn't come from Democrats but from Republicans. It will lower the deficit and cover everyone and pay for itself after 10 years.'

The blind supporters will cheer and clap and tell each other what a great job Trump is doing while true conservatives and liberals alike will stand, slack-jawed at what they're witnessing from the GOP.