Elon Musk: Robots will take your jobs, government will have to pay your wage

a reply to: seasonal

no matter what happens we will move to a socialist way of doing things..

I worked at a sock factory once.. I was payed $10/hr Fixer, operator, maintainer

I made 44,000 socks per day on 11 machines..

Can one person make a thousand socks in a day? Let's assume they can.

I'm doing 44 jobs..

It's no secret we don't have jobs because we don't need jobs. everyone get it? We don't need it.
So..

Food, Water, housing...

will have to be supplied directly. ..or indirectly through money.

that's it..

It's a similar change in scope to not burning fossil fuels anymore.. These are big changes, and they will actually line up at a similar time it looks like.



What has value after this? Corn? Oil? Gold?

Humans.

a reply to: Reverbs

You are right

a reply to: Reverbs

No matter what happens we will move to a socialist way of doing things.

This is a very depressing thought and hopefully isn't inevitable.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
And as In4orment says, this has been said for decades and that is right. Twilight Zone even did one tale based on this back in the 60's. And even as people have been saying this for decades, we can see it going on now and as Musk points out it the advent of the real effect is getting closer and closer. And are either of the candidates talking about this? Giving any insight on plans to deal with it? Neither. Baloney to them both.

There also was an excellent book on this back in 95 by Jeremy Rifkin titled "The End of Work
en.wikipedia.org...

Nope there're science fiction books about machines doing everything and make us complacent since hte 19th century.

Probably goes even further back than that! I have to wonder how many books or scrolls were written and lost to history.

An example--very early 20th century (1909):
en.wikipedia.org - The Machine Stops...

This one (1863) has it we're slaves to technology and business. Soulless, artificial--contemptible--creatures. A lot like Fahrenheit 451. Remember how the TV's sucked them dry? Their lifeless eyes never moving away, even as the bombs were falling and flames surrounded them?
en.wikipedia.org - Paris in the Twentieth Century...

Think on that. Written nearly 100 years earlier.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Reverbs

This is a very depressing thought and hopefully isn't inevitable.

or the survivors of the war will all be farmers again..

If the government pays everyone, it will give them complete control by denying payment to those who they don't approve of or engage in behavior they don't approve of. We will all become indentured servants to the State. Every aspect of our lives will be under government control.

I can't say I'd be looking forward to that.

a reply to: Blaine91555

. We will all become indentured servants to the State. Every aspect of our lives will be under government control.

True, but with the $ rocketing to the top, I think we end up there regardless what road we follow.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
If the government pays everyone, it will give them complete control by denying payment to those who they don't approve of or engage in behavior they don't approve of. We will all become indentured servants to the State. Every aspect of our lives will be under government control.

I can't say I'd be looking forward to that.

then plan to control the government.

or make it smaller..


no kidding though. We don't need more workers.

a reply to: seasonal

If that's true, lets hope we become far better at choosing our leaders.

I can easily see a second State forming with a black market underground. I think we have seen this before, minus the robots. As I recall it was called the Soviet Union.

Everyone should watch "Brazil" (movie from 1985) to get a taste of where this would lead in the end. It won't be with the average person enjoying the fruits of technology, but instead being thrown bones by the elite in power.

I just wanted to repost this.

Why can't this work?












I thought about this today.

Almost did a thread on it.

A solution I have is simple.

Currently government takes money from others and redistributes it.

What if government actually MADE a product and sold it? Government can manufacture robots, and sell them. For every robot they sell, the government can assist the individual that would be out of a job.

That way, the government isn't taking more from us who still work. . . and can work with the unemployed who have been displaced by automation.

a reply to: Reverbs

What do you think the end result would be if people did not have a reason to get up in the morning, rations doled out by the government to exist on and no freedom to pursue dreams.

Like I said, it may be true, but we have seen this in history. Long lines waiting for rations, multiple families living in tiny apartments, out of control alcoholism and drug addiction, endless bureaucracy and pockets full of papers just to visit someone in the next town, no fuel to travel even if you could afford a car and if you are lucky enough to be in the elite, hated by the average person and rightly so.

We simply did not evolve for a life like that.

I'll add, just because we can make ourselves obsolete, does not mean we should.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I'll add, just because we can make ourselves obsolete, does not mean we should.

We won't. We'll hybridize. We'll transform. And possibly we'll redistribute our brain to do tasks it hasn't normally done in the past. For example, if machines walk for us and make our food and clean our water and grow our crops and so forth, this allows us to devote our brain to other tasks. What other tasks? We have yet to know. And we don't even know if we'll find them. How many of us will adjust? Isn't that what this discussion is about. Failure to adjust means dependence and ultimately loss of control over our fate.

All of this is familiar. Machines now are doing things we used to do. We--it's assumed--adjusted. But will we continue to? Or maybe not all of us have succeeded in adjusting throughout our long history. So the only surprise is if ALL of us fail. Does that mean extinction?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Reverbs

What do you think the end result would be if people did not have a reason to get up in the morning, rations doled out by the government to exist on and no freedom to pursue dreams.

Like I said, it may be true, but we have seen this in history. Long lines waiting for rations, multiple families living in tiny apartments, out of control alcoholism and drug addiction, endless bureaucracy and pockets full of papers just to visit someone in the next town, no fuel to travel even if you could afford a car and if you are lucky enough to be in the elite, hated by the average person and rightly so.

We simply did not evolve for a life like that.

I'm not arguing philosophy..

It's just basic math.

that's the reality or killing off a lot of the herd.

those are your options.



And just so you know.. I don't LIVE for my job.. it's not what "get's me up in the morning."
Hugs and kisses and rainbowa get me up in the morning you goofball.

Human creativity is the new value..

You don't see the progression.. right now you have 3,000 slaves if you lived 6,000 years ago to get the same things you do now..

we DO NOT need more workers.. We need more skilled people. We also need artists (movies, games, music)

it's not an idea it's a reality..
deal with it.


the spearhead the could take us to the future gracefully is energy off the grid and in units more powerful than we get now..

The problem is, as society becomes more efficient due to technology, there is an upward redistribution of wealth, so the ultra-wealthy are the ones who reap most of the benefits.

Universal income is possible, and it could work if technology keeps advancing, but not unless the men at the top of the power heap are unseated, or at least forced to stop hoarding.

a reply to: Reverbs

We do need more skilled workers. Right now in the US we have a huge shortage of people like Plumbers and Electricians. Young people simply have no interest in needed skills.

You have to discuss this with a dose of reality. A world full of people creating games and music is little too Kumbaya to be realistic.

All of what you suggest would require real work to get to that point and things like cultural clashes between peoples will continue to be a reality among other things. The corrupt will still fight their way into positions of power over us.

You do know that many of us like to work? We may not like the income disparity, but we do prefer to be productive and sitting around creating games is a kids mentality. Those I know who prefer to just be rather than to be of value have their lives end up badly.

Believe me, you take away the need to work and be productive, you will see rampant alcoholism and drug addiction and all manner of bad things take us down.

It is inevitable. We, the people of this planet, own this planets resources. Not Mr.Businessman. Not Mr.Bureaucrat .
Those who use these resources to profit...... owe a portion of this profit...... to everyone.
If this comes packaged as "universal Income" .. then I am ok with that.
Many careers are about to vanish.... but not the people who did those jobs. Self driving trucks and buses, automated factories.... so many jobs that have been around for decades are going away for good and if there is not some kind of plan in place that is more like a Universal Income and less like Unemployment Compensation..... then stress and depression and anger.......... and fear, will run rampant.
Universal income does not mean people will not work anymore..... it just means the money they earn can be used for the pursuit of happiness.... not the pursuit of staying alive.
Some may call it communism, but I still cal it capitalism. People in Alaska get an oil check..... oil is no different than ore, or fish... or water..its all a resource.

a reply to: Greggers

Universal income is possible, and it could work if technology keeps advancing, but not unless the men at the top of the power heap are unseated, or at least forced to stop hoarding.

Good luck, I am of the opinion that it will be one of the following scenarios.

Govt forces corps to pay up, but the corps/govt are bed fellows

Corps play hide-go-seek with the $

The public forces the corps to pay maybe friendly

Corps pay, and everything works fine.

War takes alot of the population and everything is reorganized

Food riots, things get burned, a revolution follows leaves possibility for good and not so good outcomes

originally posted by: Zimnydran
It is inevitable. We, the people of this planet, own this planets resources. Not Mr.Businessman. Not Mr.Bureaucrat .
Those who use these resources to profit...... owe a portion of this profit...... to everyone.
If this comes packaged as "universal Income" .. then I am ok with that.
Many careers are about to vanish.... but not the people who did those jobs. Self driving trucks and buses, automated factories.... so many jobs that have been around for decades are going away for good and if there is not some kind of plan in place that is more like a Universal Income and less like Unemployment Compensation..... then stress and depression and anger.......... and fear, will run rampant.
Universal income does not mean people will not work anymore..... it just means the money they earn can be used for the pursuit of happiness.... not the pursuit of staying alive.
Some may call it communism, but I still cal it capitalism. People in Alaska get an oil check..... oil is no different than ore, or fish... or water..its all a resource.

How do they owe anything to anybody who didn't help to acquire said resource? A company which provides clean water is only beholden to those who participated directly in providing it. Yes people NEED water. We all NEED air too. But if you always sit and never DO then what right do you have to anything? Living is something we have to do; it's not given without cost.

Don't call it universal income. It's charity. That's what it's. Technology is enabling us to feed increasing numbers of people more cheaply than ever. This is the brightly lit thought process of most futurists and optimists. At the same time, increasing numbers of people are born whom are not receiving what they require to live and also are not doing what they need to live. And so the results are people die, in large numbers. It's a race then between death and the combined efforts of our technology--hence charity--and our ability to each provide for ourselves.

If by some chance we all fail to exceed our needs then no charity is allotted. Then what? Will our AI overlords and the great machine provide for us? Or will a great white flag fly and the masses of people die?

We do need more skilled workers. Right now in the US we have a huge shortage of people like Plumbers and Electricians. Young people simply have no interest in needed skills.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Very true, when we interview for a position either the applicant is 4 years from retiring or is very, very green.