Masons are really really good

a reply to: KSigMason

Masons being evil is something I struggle with.

It's based on the idea that it's the 33rd degree and above are starting wars, controlling people etc.
That idea could be completely wrong and skewers the whole argument. Mason's telling me that I'm wrong can also be too easily dismissed as either "of course you would say that" or "you haven't reached the right level yet".

I think they are evil because either I've bought into the conspiracy BS which is completely false or because I don't understand the full plan. Either way, it's ignorance that guides my belief here.

a reply to: Bedlam

Lol, I actually sung that when I started reading that. That was a hilarious episode of the Simpsons.

originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: Bedlam

Lol, I actually sung that when I started reading that. That was a hilarious episode of the Simpsons.

We do, we do!

I got a big laugh out of that episode, I won't lie.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
So you don't actually have any proof then. It also seems that you don't know much about actual Freemasonry. 1) The 33rd degree is only relevant to the Scottish Rite and the Scottish Rite is just one of many groups. 2) There's no degree above the 33rd degree in the Scottish Rite. 3) The Rites of Memphis & Misraim are clandestine and this group belongs to the Grand College of Rites of the USA.

"you haven't reached the right level yet".

The fact you call it "level" tells me you don't know enough about Freemasonry. It also shows the kind of double standard and hypocrisy you are prone too; I have to be a "right level", but you're not even a Mason and yet somehow have an "idea"? LOL Hubris.

a reply to: KSigMason

I stated clearly my opinion was based on ignorance.
I'm not sure how you get Hubris from that.

I assumed you wanted an honest answer, I guess the moral is... Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer.
Now that's Hubris!

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: KSigMason

Masons being evil is something I struggle with.

It's based on the idea that it's the 33rd degree and above are starting wars, controlling people etc.
That idea could be completely wrong and skewers the whole argument. Mason's telling me that I'm wrong can also be too easily dismissed as either "of course you would say that" or "you haven't reached the right level yet".

I think they are evil because either I've bought into the conspiracy BS which is completely false or because I don't understand the full plan. Either way, it's ignorance that guides my belief here.

Masons don't know any more than anyone else does about the world. We are regular folks who just happened to join a certain group. The Scottish Rite is a sub group of masonry, much like the Shrine or the York Rite. The Scottish Rite has the 4th through the 33rd degrees. Once you join the Scottish Rite in the US, you are a 32nd degree. After much time and selfless giving of that time to the group, you can be bestowed the KCCH, which is a red hat instead of a black hat. It's a step towards the 33rd. After a period of time, you can be made a 33rd. It's an honorary degree and don't give you special powers that I know of. Most of the 33rds I know of who became that while I was in masonry still have jobs, still work, and are still the same folks I knew before they got a cool hat.

The rituals we do in lodge are meant to teach moral lessons to make us strive to be better men. Sounds hoakey, but it's a wonderful thing and helps a lot in my opinion.

I appreciate that you recognize that your lack of knowledge on the subject makes your decisions less accurate. If you have questions and are interested, please ask. If not, you can say that this one guy who is a mason told you they were not bad folks, just regular.

a reply to: network dude

Cheers, I guess there's 3 questions I have.

1) What's the deal with Moloch?

2) If you went to court for a crime would you be in a better position if the Judge was a mason?

3) I've got a busted finger and can't do the "secret" handshake. How would you deal with that as a mason?

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
1) What's the deal with Moloch?

There is none, you are thinking of the Bohemian Grove.

2) If you went to court for a crime would you be in a better position if the Judge was a mason?

Doubtful, especially if it were a jury trial where the judge would be irrelevant.

3) I've got a busted finger and can't do the "secret" handshake. How would you deal with that as a mason?

I can say I have never qualified another Mason by using a grip, I always just ask, 'Are you a Mason?'. Most of us wear a ring so it becomes fairly easy to spot.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: network dude

Cheers, I guess there's 3 questions I have.

1) What's the deal with Moloch?

2) If you went to court for a crime would you be in a better position if the Judge was a mason?

3) I've got a busted finger and can't do the "secret" handshake. How would you deal with that as a mason?

Moloch is a giant wooden owl and part of the Bohemian Grove. It has nothing to do with masonry.

I'd be a bit worried about having a masonic judge as we are supposed to be the kind of people who don't show up on that end of the legal system. I'd be worried he'd make an example out of me, knowing I was supposed to be above that kind of behavior.

I rarely do the "grip" unless it's someone I know from the lodge that I haven't seen in a bit. If I wasn't able to give them "the grip", I suspect they would survive. If I was really hard up to prove my status, I could just flash them my dues card.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I think they are evil because either I've bought into the conspiracy BS which is completely false or because I don't understand the full plan. Either way, it's ignorance that guides my belief here.

at least you can talk about it

a thread about Masons without the arguments ?
now i know this isn't ATS
i must of died or still be asleep

a reply to: network dude

Awesome, cheers for that. So the masons that go to bohemian grove are just networking outside of masonry.

The Judge thing is interesting and it's also good to know I can still join even with a gammy hand.

It seems I have labelled masons incorrectly because of the bohemian grove type guys.
I need to work on my definitions.

originally posted by: kibric

a thread about Masons without the arguments ?

Them sound like fighting words

a reply to: KSigMason

I think I actually understand now.
Your not going to get BLM levels of support but there is a lot of bigotry towards "you people".

It's a running joke in the media, prats like me thinking they know more than you do, really heinous slander etc. etc.

The weird thing is that I can recognise it as bigotry, but I still can't stop.
Strangely in this situation every mason that gets into the White House actually increases the bigotry also.

It sucks, but your grandkids will experience the same levels of bigotry.
Makes me think of Jane Elliot when she says if you're not racist you haven't been paying attention. Bigotry is definitely taught and it's almost impossible to unteach.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
What are you talking about? I nor Freemasonry is about bigotry nor teaches it. And no, Masons do not increase bigotry in the White House.

a reply to: KSigMason

I was talking about my bigotry against masons.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

just to be sure you understand this, the last president to be a mason was Gerald R. Ford. The next closest thing you have is Billy Clinton being in the Demolay as a kid. (demolay is a kids version of masonry, much like cub scouts is a precursor to Boy Scouts) But Billy could never have been a mason with all the shady things he was involved in.

a reply to: network dude

That's shocked me. I thought it was pretty much all of them. At least Bush.

I'm looking into it now actually.
It's funny the stuff people just accept without looking into it.

"You people" must really get pissed at everyone making up stuff.

It's fascinating, there's still the chance you're just misleading me with your secret alien techniques.
However, at this stage my money is on the problem being me believing fairy tales.

Thanks for straightening that out for me. I'm guessing you're used to the same silly assumptions.

a reply to: network dude

OK, so the reason for the anti mason stuff could stem from the King of France in the 1300's, he made a power play against them with the church and the PR campaign may have left mud that still sticks.

That's been incorrectly linked to the Skull and Bones club which I can't seem to find any meaningful masonic links to. It's just bad old conspiracy theories from before people could fact check so easily and we assume it's true. (or I'm just an idiot, but I prefer that answer)

You've won this I think.
There's still reason to be wary of any Skull and Bones member, how valid those reasons are I'm less and less sure, but they have absolutely nothing to do with masonry.

Cheers again.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
I'm guessing you're used to the same silly assumptions.

I started as a conspiracy guy looking into all the dark aspects of the evil in this world. I had some really good friends who were masons, and I couldn't imagine them being involved with anything shady or evil. They are the type of men who I admired and wished I could be more like. So I investigated, asked questions, and found a group of masons right here who answered questions and helped steer me in the right direction to find truthful answers. I then joined so I could KNOW for sure what I thought I knew was truth. Now, I have been a mason for a while, I have done all the things required to have a very good well rounded opinion. So while my experience cannot be translated into anything other than my word, I know that my truth is good and I am a better man for having found it. I don't expect anyone else to take what I say as 100% truth, I never did that for anyone else, which is why I joined. But finding what I did, makes me hope that others in the same boat, step up and go the route I did. I think the world would be a much better place if more people lived by the ideals we teach. But again, that's just my opinion.

Thanks for keeping an open mind on this. It's a shame we all can't do that more often, myself included.