Is This Really a Democracy......??

So election season is now in full swing, in less than a month America will vote for its next dictator and we will get another 8 years of complaining about how corrupt everyone is. It seems to be the way of things these days. The choice America has to me would be a bit like picking weather to die by radiation poisoning or being buried alive, it’s no reach choice atoll just picking out the lesser of two evils.

Now I do not have a say in this election I am an outsider looking in wondering just why it is that there are only two very bad option and no real alternative. In the UK we do not really have a two party system and this is true of most of Europe, yes there are the bigger parties who tend to win but the smaller political groups do hold some power also.

This has led me to look at how democracy in America works. I am not writing this because I expect to be teaching anyone anything I am more writing it to promote some discussion around this topic. Once I started looking into this I realised that America is not a true democracy, actually its more like a political dictatorship only the head of the snake changes once every 8 years to keep the illusion of democracy intact. The system of voting is basically rigged right from the start in a way that is so undemocratic its rather ironic that America is touted as the “leader of the free word”.

Now I could spend hours sitting about writing page after page reporting on my findings regarding how undemocratic the American system of election is mostly thanks the electoral college system, however I think posting a view videos would be easier for readers to digest and also a hell of a lot easier for me to get my point across.

So if you like me have perhaps wanted to know more about this system then sit back for a few minutes of your time and watch some of these videos and click on these links. Then please feel free to post your views on this.

So these first two videos make a broader case for America not being a democracy....




So the idea that America is a democracy is fundamentally wrong its actually a Republic that is built on a polyarchy of political and financial elites who control the political dogma. The only real say that the people have is what political elite will represent them or as is very topical right now who is going to be the head of this politically elite group, the president.

...or do they.....

when it comes to electing the president how much say do the people actually have lets look at that....

First off all how does someone become a presidential nominee for president.

First of all you have to make the minimum requirements as set out under the constitution.

The US constitution requires only that a person be a "natural born citizen" of the US, at least 35 years old, and a resident of the US for 14 years.

How to be President

Then this happens.



It is this system that has crated this insane situation where clinton won her parties nomination despite not winning the popular vote of the voters in the democratic primaries thanks to these so called super delegates, in fact it looks like 107 of these super delegates basically had the power to scrub the votes of 11 million voters (LINK). So there are super-delegates who its seems have more power behind their vote than everyone else they carried Obama over the finish line when he went up against Clinton in 2008 also.

This is not a simple first past the post system and its creating lots of confusion and to me does not seem all that "democratic".

but it pales in comparison to the actual presidential election's bizarre claim to be "democratic" all thanks to the electoral college.



And why is this such a problem....



So there are 4.4 million people who cannot vote, there are a number of votes who carry more weight than others, some strange electoral college system that can go against the votes of the people. Now to top all of this off, this presidential nominee can then win with only 22% of the popular vote.

So am i missing something hear or is the American system of "democracy" a bit of a farce?

No, no it is not.... Hasn't been.
link

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Thanks for bringing up this topic OtherSideOfTheCoin - it's an extremely important one.

In fact, I made a thread about this very topic yesterday - it really makes you wonder if we are seeing the beginnings of another American ***olution.

1776 Independence - Fear of Corporate Power.. 2016 Back Where We Started (?)

... if we look at the monetary influence in politics and our everyday affairs, I would say we are essentially back to where we were prior to becoming a sovereign nation, except that instead of England having an unjust say in our lives, it is money and corporate influence.

It's certainly not a pure democracy, nor was it designed to be. It is a democratic republic. The good thing about a democratic republic is that it isn't vulnerable to wild, chaotic swings in popular opinion based upon the "flavor of the day." The bad thing is that representatives may be corrupted.

It is very clear that money makes the decisions in Washington.

The solution isn't perfectly clear, but something must be done to take power from the hands of big money interests.

i think as smart as the founders were they probably couldnt have imagined the world that exists now. Having said that i have not read everything every "founding father" ever wrote....perhaps there are statements made which could allude to an understanding that eventually society would become extremely sophisticated, advanced, complex etc...but it appears to some people that the constitution and bill of rights dont have everything they need to address the profound complexity of the modern world. Im not saying i believe that but im sure there are good reasons why experts would think that way (living document argument).


as to american democracy.....there are too many ways the elections can be "rigged" or manipulated especially with modern technology. In the olden days there was all kinds of nefarious stuff going on...voter intimidation, ballot tampering etc...just like to today but it was definitely more naked back then (well some would say the fraudsters are pretty bold nowadays too). In any case once elected officials get into office and realize the unprecedented access they have to budgets, laws and all the machinery of government im sure the temptation to abuse that system for self aggrandizement is particularly potent....especially combined with a political culture that encourages corruption or back scratching.

many intelligent people believe we can do better than the circus politics has become, and i agree.

If there is anything truly good that can and perhaps has come from this election cycle its that more people than ever before in history are looking very closely at how our election system works and questioning it with a genuine desire to understand why it doesnt seem to be working very well and for the people it supposedly represents.

perhaps this is a time like no other where we really have a chance to come up with something better, assuming of course we survive the crazies at both ends of the political spectrum who are fairly blinded by partisanship and ideological loyalty.

heres to hoping for the next jump in human consciousness.....preferably BEFORE armageddon!

It certainly looks like any sort of peaceful change is not possible. The big legacy of this election will be that the curtain has been pulled back. The media has shown itself to be untrustworthy, and it's becoming increasingly obvious that our elections are a sham.

If Hillary wins, expect to see the militia movement return in a big way. Because there really might not be any way to effect meaningful change other than another revolution.

Why do people keep calling America a Democracy? We are not a Democracy. We may appear democratic. And we may have had our educational system tell us we are a democracy. But Jesus Christ on a piece of toast, we are not a democracy.

We are a Constitutional Republic. The differences may seem subtle, but the primary difference is we (at least in theory, but not really in practice) have individual rights as the center focus of our system. A democracy has the exact opposite.

originally posted by: Greggers
The bad thing is that representatives may be corrupted.

I think the most insidious thing is when educationally, we are uneducated about our own constitution before we graduate. And then have our heads filled with half truths (like that we are a democracy) before being sent out into the world.

What this results in is a populace that, for some unknown reason, ignores how corrupt their reps are and keeps voting the same assholes into office over and over and over.

Our representatives can be corrupted. They are certain to be. The "4th branch of the government" has failed to do its job, as The People allow those clowns to hang around term after term after term. Not because its better for the country, but because its important that their party wins that particular seat. oO

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Related thread I started a few days ago: "Looking for a Democracy... Please Help"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The most important point I made is that government of democracy can only occur with the consent of the governed. Consent in important matters of contract requires negotiating power on both sides best shown by the two sides both being able to edit the contract. The contract needs to be in writing and signed by both parties. When we have such a system, we will for the first time in history have an advanced civilization. Until then, we are more or less barbarians in an uncivilized place.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

When your political power begins to approach equality with everyone else, when your political power approaches the same power as Hillary Clinton, Exxon Mobile, and Warren Buffet, you'll be approaching a democracy. People who think this is a democracy are sadly ignorant. The world's most used system is a Republic by with the majority volunteers the minority for anything at all. Majority rule is not a democracy, because 51% of the people have political power while the other 49% don't. So unless your system is less than 1% corrupt, you are generally speaking, not living in a democracy. Voting really has very little to do with a democracy... its a tool of democracy, but not a fundamental part. You could have a democracy based entirely on written agreements rather than being "volunteered" by others to things you find morally wrong, like participation in a system by which you take others property without the permission of the owner as defined by at the very least a verbal agreement that can be canceled.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

i suppose "people" call it a democracy because their leaders do.....and the media does....so....it kinda makes sense.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You could have answered the question in your title with one simple Google search. America is a Constitutional Republic. It is absolutely not a democracy.

a reply to: tribal

It does make sense: we have been manipulated into parroting an incorrect belief.

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You could have answered the question in your title with one simple Google search. America is a Constitutional Republic. It is absolutely not a democracy.

and you could have read/watched the entire thread.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It shouldn't take reading through an entire thread to get the gist, though.

Reading through your OP, it appears that its written to climax with its final sentence:

So am i missing something hear or is the American system of "democracy" a bit of a farce?

This question is not needed when you understand that we are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Which i mention in the thread and post a video explaining that.

What i am really getting at is how undemocratic the voting system for election POTUS is.

The sad reality is that America is a plutocracy--rule by the wealthy.
Look at the economic statistics: over the last several decades, no matter what's happening with the economy--recession, etc.--the wealthiest percentage of this country manages to grow their wealth.

We're "taught" in school that our system of government is of the people, by the people, for the people. They just don't tell us that the "people" isn't exactly all inclusive.

Trump runs his mouth about this election being rigged. It's rigged alright, but not nearly in the manner he's suggesting.
There's a reason why the two-party system is perpetuated to the degree it is. The operational philosophical concept is the Hegelian dialectic. That is, you posit a thesis, then you posit the antithesis; the result is the synthesis. We're manipulated by the constant play of opposites: Republican vs. Democrat; progressive vs. conservative; black vs. white; man vs. woman, etc. We're made to think that our vote counts. If we just keep voting for our side, things will turn out for the better. However, the ultimage goal is to keep us divided, while TPTB always get the result they want--the "synthesis." Another way of putting this is that TPTB always bet on both horses. They know how to push on one side hard enough to bring things around to the result they want.

In many ways, it doesn't matter who gets into the white house. The real power is channeld through the individuals that bounce back and forth between the public and private sector--the fat cats from Goldman Sachs, etc. Who profits? the military industiral complex, big pharmacy, big energy.

We're made to think we have a say. And yet, things never change. As an example, the religious right constantly jumps in bed with the latest GOP candidate--who will certainly pander to their vote--and they never get their agenda advanced. It's like that movie Groundhog Day. Here we go again.

Nobody wants to consider that we're being manipulated in this country. It's blasphemous to suggest we're brainwashed into believing and trusting in the system. While keeping us nice and divided, TPTB also know how to keep us socially anesthetized by surrounding us with a steady stream of media, sports, entertainment, etc. A fat, dumb, and happy populace that still believes. Just like in Fehrenheit 451, the bombs are going to go off while people are sitting in their living rooms talking to the holograms.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Because our founders knew that the average man was an idiot.

What they really wanted was an aristocratic class of land owners making all the decisions on who gets elected and whatnot.

And nobody talks about the electoral college issue.

The vast majority of people just blank out when you try to talk to them about that little problem.

They're all so full of themselves and their vote and the whole voting system. They can't bear to even acknowledge that their vote literally carries no weight. As I said elsewhere recently, you are not voting for a president. You are voting for an electoral college member to hopefully vote the same way you do.

No matter what the current candidates are saying the fact that the electoral college can vote as they see fit and choose not to follow the popular vote is a rigged system.

How do we fix it? Simple, one law or even executive order if it were to come to that to make it so the electoral college must obey the popular vote. Problem solved. Democracy in the voting process reestablished.

originally posted by: Noncents

No matter what the current candidates are saying the fact that the electoral college can vote as they see fit and choose not to follow the popular vote is a rigged system.

How do we fix it? Simple, one law or even executive order if it were to come to that to make it so the electoral college must obey the popular vote. Problem solved. Democracy in the voting process reestablished.

This is not true in every state. Each state determines the rules of its Electors, with some legally requiring all votes to go to the popular vote winner in their state, and some allowing Electors to do what they want (and its happened before, too).

Your "solution" doesn't fix anything, really. And it breaks a major part of our nation: states rights. How the states will vote for the president is up to the states to determine. Remember, despite how we perceive it, each state is effectively its own nation within a greater federation of states.

The issue is less about how we elect our president, and more about how much impact the president is allowed to have in our day to day lives.