When the Cops Take Your Urine by Force.

When the Cops Take Your Urine by Force
By Ken Armstrong

This article was published in collaboration with the Marshall Project.

Q: Did it hurt when she inserted it?

A: Oh, yeah. Bad.

Q: Describe that for me.

A: Just as if somebody would take a burning hot coal and stick it up your penis. – Deposition of Jamie Lockard, in a lawsuit against police in southeastern Indiana In the United States, there is a wealth of case law pertaining to the Fourth Amendment, with the US Supreme Court and the rest of the judiciary fashioning jurisprudence on what constitutes an unreasonable search or seizure. But the courts have yet to reach any kind of consensus about one particularly cringe-worthy practice, as exemplified by what happened to Jamie Lockard in a small town in southeastern Indiana, close to the Ohio border. In March 2009, police in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, pulled Lockard over for not stopping at a stop sign. Suspecting he was drunk, the police had him take a breathalyzer test. He blew a .07 percent, just under the legal limit. The police then obtained a search warrant for blood and urine samples and took Lockard to a local hospital. The blood draw—nurse and needle, with no resistance from Lockard—was no problem. The urine was another matter. Unable to get a sample from Lockard the conventional way—hospital personnel said he wouldn't go, Lockard said he couldn't go—the police took Lockard to the emergency room and handcuffed him to a bed. A police sergeant held one of Lockard's ankles while an officer held the other. A nurse inserted a catheter tube, typically 16 inches long—up the urethra, through the prostate and into the bladder.
www.vice.com...

How is this not a violation of some rights, and all for what??. a test that showed .07 at first?? how about calling him an Uber and have him pick his car up from the impound the next day, yeah I know he wasn't legally drunk so even that might have been problematic ,but it's a much better alternative than tying him up and sticking a tube down his dick after giving him a blood sample that showed equally low levels , what are we North Koreans??

If that happened to me, both officers would regret it for the rest of their lives.

a reply to: Spider879

That is horrible.
I hope he sues the town of Lawrenceburg (a place i will never visit) the hospital for aiding this heinous act and the officers for their despicable actions. This is disgusting.

a reply to: Spider879

Pee in a cup. Seriously.

You can be compelled by court to give a urine sample. It may be that the police or court system are wrong in some instances, however, I would not choose that moment to litigate, I would just pee. Any violation of my rights could be discussed at a later date.

originally posted by: carewemust
If that happened to me, both officers would regret it for the rest of their lives.

I don't know what your response would have been beyond lawyering up and sue somebody, but I am guessing you be on the losing end of this, cops don't get punished by the system and you will be for punishing them.
Unless you are Luke Cage.

a reply to: Spider879
Expect to lose more right's if Trump is elected. The next supreme court judges are vital to liberty, a right wing court is detrimental outright hostel to freedom.

a reply to: Ameilia

yea, you would do that. what else would you be ok to do, or what is your limit; if invasive, illegal sampling insnt there yet...

i guess even though he wasnt legally under the influence, they wanted samples to 'take to the station' and have them come back above the limit, or would have found 'substances in his sample analyzed by other law abiding law enforcing officers/affiliates.

a reply to: Spider879

This is a sign of things to come....do as you are told or cop it (pun intended).....

This is a shining example of the war on drugs being a war on the people.....what they did is a disgrace and anyone who condones this is either stupid or mentally ill ....

If they did that to me, they'd be getting an unexpected feces sample. That I can promise you.

I don't understand. Whenever they want DNA they always have to sneak around and get it if the person isn't willing or isn't incarcerated. What's to prevent them from taking DNA swabs the same way if a person is suspected of committing a crime?

So are they saying their breath-a-lyzer isn't accurate? Because that's what it sounds like. How did they get a search warrant so fast? This whole thing sounds desperate and criminal. Gross overreach I say.

I can't believe the sheer amount of violations going on with cops these days. It's almost like they think they own the public at large. I know the amount of cops not doing bad behavior is much greater than those who are, but the amount who are violating civil and constitutional rights are just way too many. One would think with all the media coverage on cops and their ignorant actions, there would be some policy changes and education on de-escalation training and techniques and citizen rights. The matter doesn't seem to be getting better, in fact it appears to be getting worse.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: carewemust
If that happened to me, both officers would regret it for the rest of their lives.

I don't know what your response would have been beyond lawyering up and sue somebody, but I am guessing you be on the losing end of this, cops don't get punished by the system and you will be for punishing them.
Unless you are Luke Cage.

I had to look up Luke Cage. Never heard of the guy. Is this who you're referring to?

"Luke Cage, also known as Power Man, is a fictional superhero appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics."

No, I'm no Luke Cage, Spider879. I wasn't referring to the legal system either. Utilizing the legal system takes too long and doesn't relay a strong enough message.

a reply to: carewemust

Utilizing the legal system takes too long and doesn't relay a strong enough message.

And in this you are Luke Cage for he said the same thing, only bullets can't hurt him..

a reply to: WilburnRoach

Dont talk to me about liberty in a democratically run executive branch.
Yahoo just admitted to handing over emails to alphabet govt agencies with NO WARRANTS. 8 more years of that no thank you.

a reply to: Spider879

I know where Lawrenceburg, IN is. Borders SW Ohio/Cincinnati area. Their hospital sucks. This doesn't surprise me in the least. Cop was wanting a DUI and wouldn't stop until he got what he was after.

Shame on that nurse, too. I'd never do that to anyone. Give him a liter of IV fluids, or push the water, he will pee on his own sooner or later.

a reply to: Spider879

I'm not buy'n this story, not for a minute.
No judge from what I know about the law would grant
such a warrant. And I don't even see any cop being so
ignorant of the law. The only thing that causes a citizen
to submit to any test? Is if they want to keep their DL.
You don't have to give any test. But you do lose your
license for non complience. Simple as that.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: carewemust

Utilizing the legal system takes too long and doesn't relay a strong enough message.

And in this you are Luke Cage for he said the same thing, only bullets can't hurt him..

You're right, Spider879. Unlike Luke Cage, I'm allergic to bullets!

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Spider879

I'm not buy'n this story, not for a minute.
No judge from what I know about the law would grant
such a warrant. And I don't even see any cop being so
ignorant of the law. The only thing that causes a citizen
to submit to any test? Is if they want to keep their DL.
You don't have to give any test. But you do lose your
license for non complience. Simple as that.

But he took two tests, the Breathalyzer and a blood test, but that still wouldn't satisfy the Cop he needed more, and in the end the number dropped to .05 as for the Judge hey there is a lot of incompetence and corruption there too.

originally posted by: Spider879
what are we North Koreans??

No, North Korea has a lower incarceration rate than we do

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Ameilia

yea, you would do that. what else would you be ok to do, or what is your limit; if invasive, illegal sampling insnt there yet...

i guess even though he wasnt legally under the influence, they wanted samples to 'take to the station' and have them come back above the limit, or would have found 'substances in his sample analyzed by other law abiding law enforcing officers/affiliates.

Invasive is a relative term. It's invasive to steal my pee and test it. It's even MORE invasive to stick up tube up my urinary tract and remove that pee by force.

Further, it's especially risky! You can get cut and scraped up during such a procedure, and also get infections from it. No, I would not risk infection. I would pee, and choose to sue or not, at a later date when I was somewhere SAFE.

People have to think this stuff all the way through.

Why is there an attempt to turn every thread political.. Even when it is completely unconnected...
Im sure there are at least 5 threads on the front page to choose from and at least another 5 on the most flagged section.

Back on topic.. This is a terrible thing to be exposed too. Something you expect from a cave somewhere in the middle east..