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originally posted by: Masterjaden
what you seem to be incapable of understanding is that a lack of ability to see all that time prevents the theory from being falsifiable am absolute requirement for legitimate science.
I don't care what you observe and test and experiment unless the their of evolution requiring immense time changes you are NOT doing science about evolutionary theory but are merely doing science that examines the mechanisms that are purported to lead to evolution based on evolutionary theory.
the above logic is sound so until you can validly prove one or more of the above premises wrong, you fail.
originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: namelesss
Did you ever see the series premier of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine? If not, you might want to check it out. It's a pretty good episode.
The reason that, ultimately, evolution will fail as a 'Universal theory' is the same reason that 'creation' fails. Both deal with 'beginnings' and temporal 'progression'...
Like a movie, motion, and the 'time' that defines 'motion' is an illusion!
Just like the 'moving' characters in the flick...
How can 'evolution' even exist, other than as a theory explaining an illusion.
I'm not convinced time is an illusion. If I look at a red apple, is the color an illusion? Someone who's color blind may not see it the same way. Someone who's completely blind would definitely not see it as I do. Even I would have a different perception in the dark; but in the light I can still guess which apple I'd prefer based on what I see. To me that's perception, rather than illusion.
So, is time really an illusion; or just a perception?
If time is a perception (as I believe it to be),
I don't see why evolution, or even creationism, would fail as theories.
Evolution doesn't deny the existence of things in the past, it just posits a relationship between ancestors and decedents. If I understand you correctly, when you say all that exist is here now, you're not saying we're nothing more than Boltzmann Brains right?
If our current level of organization, having many self-aware entities, is a result of a random fluctuation...
I sent you a PM.
originally posted by: namelesss
a reply to: VP740
Continued;
If our current level of organization, having many self-aware entities, is a result of a random fluctuation...
And yet, it isn't.
There is no 'random', no 'probability', other than as a feature of our extremely truncated unique Perspectives.
We say that we will 'probably' find that parking space on Tues eve. We 'probably' won't on Saturday.
It is only 'probably' when you are unaware of all the moments and Perspectives happening all over the place!
I can 'see', as clear as you are looking at your monitor, events that you'd consider (cue spooky music) the 'future'.
To me, it's all Now, and the evidence is that the parking place I saw, directly in front of the restaurant on Saturday evening, three days before we even left the house, was there exactly as I see it!
It happens to us all, at times, but not understanding the synchronicity of moments, there are no other good theories.
I sent you a PM.
I'll go see if I got it... Thanks for making me read about Boltzman and his brain, and for your thoughts.
A real Gedanken experiment (B's Brain), but some assumptions fail in the theory.
And, again, evolution is an excellent theory considering that the data set is based on the results of an illusion of necessarily limited and unique Perspective!
Thoughts theorizing about the content of thoughts...
"...scientists are condemned by their unexamined assumptions to study the nature of mirrors only by cataloging and investigating everything that mirrors can reflect. It is an endless process that never makes progress, that never reaches closure, that generates endless debate between those who have seen different reflected images, and whose enduring product is voluminous descriptions of particular phenomena." - The Adapted Mind
tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)
originally posted by: sputniksteve
2 fascinating posts in a row thanks! Your last quote reminded me of a thought I had the other day that may or may not be relevant.
I imagined if Truth was light, and individual perspectives were mirrors, then the end result is always a different reflection even though it all originated from the same source.
originally posted by: UB2120
a reply to: cooperton
If you believe that the only life in the universe is on this planet, then I can understand your position. Even though we don't have hard evidence of life on other planets (yet) the concept that we are the only life in the universe is just something I can't bring myself to believe. The universe is just too massive. Also to me, the concept that "life" spontaneously developed on this, and only this planet by chance is a much greater leap of faith than the concept of a universe teeming with life and that all life originated from God. Also, God does not do all things himself and I think a lot of people look at it that way which does make the concept of God much harder to understand. He has created a vast number of beings who do much of this work on his behalf. He also created the universal laws that govern how the universe operates on a physical level.
Part of the problem on our planet was the disruption of the cultivation of civilization early on in our planetary history. All planets that harbor life of the mortal type are fostered from the earliest days of life. Initially that fostering is just on a physical level until a type of life with the potential of higher development appears. Then the cultivation of civilization is started. On a planet where everything goes according to plan it is common knowledge that other worlds exist with life.
They are also taught that once born into the universe we have the potential to progress/ascend from a mortal existence to one that is spirit like.
...All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities.
Consider the following:
Is courage — strength of character — desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.
Is altruism — service of one’s fellows — desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.
Is hope — the grandeur of trust — desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.
Is faith — the supreme assertion of human thought — desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.
Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.
Is idealism — the approaching concept of the divine — desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.
Is loyalty — devotion to highest duty — desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.
Is unselfishness — the spirit of self-forgetfulness — desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.
Is pleasure — the satisfaction of happiness — desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.
originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Barcs
They have found fossils out of place,
do you not understand that dating of the rock strata is all based on WHAT fossils are found in said strata and then dating of the fossils are based on what strata they're found in...do you see the problem there????
If you don't you have to revisit basic logic.
Jaden
originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: peter vlar
That's the thing. I NEVER claimed that you can't gain from pseudo science or inferential science. I simply stated that the study of evolutionary theory is NOT empirical science.
There are many pseudo sciences that are beneficial to study. I would even go so far as to say that without the study of pseudo sciences we would be stuck in long ago dismissed paradigms.
The problem I have is when people moronically and erroneously conclude that paradigms are fact and indisputable.
That's so far out of the realm of scientific endeavor as to be laughable.
Jaden
originally posted by: Masterjaden
They have found fossils out of place, do you not understand that dating of the rock strata is all based on WHAT fossils are found in said strata and then dating of the fossils are based on what strata they're found in...do you see the problem there????
originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Barcs
They have found fossils out of place, do you not understand that dating of the rock strata is all based on WHAT fossils are found in said strata and then dating of the fossils are based on what strata they're found in...do you see the problem there????
Again, it depends on what your definition of evolution is. To say that drastic changes happen over large quantities of time is simply conjecture of the highest order at best, and religious dogma at the least.
You can't witness small insignificant changes and then say oh well, that means that reptiles and birds shared a common ancestor. At least you can't without introducing an element of religious belief, because the evidence simply is NOT there for that type of drastic change.
originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Barcs
They have found fossils out of place, do you not understand that dating of the rock strata is all based on WHAT fossils are found in said strata and then dating of the fossils are based on what strata they're found in...do you see the problem there????
If you don't you have to revisit basic logic.
Jaden
originally posted by: AshFan
How do they find out how old rocks are... I mean, shouldn't they all be the same age?