Cheating death

I am sure many would have seen the movie “7th Seal” by Ingmar Bergman or "A matter of life and death (1957)" starring David Niven ( originally released under the different name of Stairway to Heaven (1946).



In both movies, Death seems to come up against some resistance and spanner in the works. The storyline in “A matter of life and death” is very cleverly conceived and the visual effects very stunning . It is my all time favourite movie.

This leads me to consider the possibility of things going wrong in the process of shifting souls from one dimension to another. In our digital age , we so often find that the errors and bugs on computer systems sometimes work in our favour . This has happened to me on many occasions.

If the process that happens on the metaphysical level (or spiritual level, or whatever)at the time of death is one which is automated then I cannot see any reason why there could not be lapse in that system too; which result in survival. Is there something that we can exploit ?

We often hear stories about near death experience as well as cases where people have come back to life after being diagnosed as dead.
In my own life, I have faced death on many occasions . Even though I did not actually slip into the sinkhole , I did get near to the edge on a few occasions.

One case that I remember vividly is when I was about 11 years old and was suffering from pneumonia. We were at a remote seaside cottage with poor access to town. My father was at work far away and my mother did not drive at the time.

At first, no one had realised the severity of my condition ; only the high temperature. My breathing was getting shallower and shallower and I knew that soon I would no longer be able to breathe. As the condition worsened, it became clear to my mother that I was really having difficulty breathing. Luckily, by that time, a friend of the family unexpectedly arrived. He was immediately despatched to the nearest town to seek help.
He came back with an array of strong medicine (including anti-biotics and othe stuff) which was administered immediately. At that moment , I saw a big black bird flapping its wings and flying around in the room. It was very real and I told my mother to get rid of it as it must have come in through an open window.

Anyway , I started to breathe better half an hour later and the bird had disappeared by then. A few days later, my mother came to me and said how she thought she would lose me when I mentioned the bird in the room. She said that I must have been delirious.
I now think that the bird (an unusually large black bird) must have been a crow. I have to mention that crows do not have this association with death in my culture. At 11, I did not even know about crows. So why this appearance ?

Now if a crow was despatched for the purpose of carrying my soul (a belief held by some cultures) then it was sent in vain. If that can happen, then it indicates that the process is an automated one, without precision; a bit like saying : let’s send death just in case . Perhaps there is a possibility of bargaining.

What are your views. Have you ever had an aborted visit from his lordship ?

a reply to: crowdedskies

Is there something that we can exploit ?

I wouldn't say "exploit" per say but there are circumstances whereas choices may have come into play that changes the outcome. The plan being altered in a sense.

The black bird you mention some would say it's all in your head or a coincidence but for me I believe in the forgotten sense. If you think it was significant then so it was. Trust your instincts.

Now if a crow was despatched for the purpose of carrying my soul

I don't think so. The consensus via NDE's is when we pass we linger for 3 days and are able to experience through others how we impacted their life both good and bad before we actually get sucked in the tunnel to go back home.

The ones that have returned back to earth tell a story and the stories are all basically the same.

a reply to: crowdedskies I had a huge laps years ago, while chased by... "can't say publicly who". Mind-blowing. I was already not a dumb chap, but that day was a first hand enlightenment experience.

I remember one more. When I was nine or ten years old I was running fast, while a kid put his leg on my path and I flew down from a platform, making a flip and landing on the concrete... two meters below. I had a black out. When I woke up on the concrete all the kids were around me, but I was totally fine. Just a strange thing, I had miniature wound on my eyebrow, A thing I could not explain to myself neither to my parents... how it happened. The platform indeed was high enough to break neck while falling. Dunno, maybe I did but right away lapsed to another reality. 😊 I have also two more death stories as I was 4 and 5, but I don't remember them personally. Just a fragments from the second one. Parents were really scared with me as a kid 👶

It's curious also one of my vivid dreams. It was with intensity almost of REM experience. In my dream I died and then time-traveled to my 11th years of age, and started a new life from there on. The interesting thing was that in my 11 years old body I remembered the death I just experienced, and thought of it and its knowing like something normal.

But this post is from the point of my intelligence. Intelligences, from any kind are not life by itself, they are tools of life, and being so, are expendable. Life itself is immortal, he is even the owner of death, another one of his tools. And nevermind what happens with human intelligence after the body takes its last breath, no matter if it is allowed to be in anther forms, it's time so comes when it will have to dissolve and return to life itself again. Thus, why should we to play this earthly game as tools, as we indeed are life, and only life. We are not ourselves, we are the owners of ourselves. We do not need to cheat death. We are already immortal.

For many their time is up when there are no gain for the mortals left behind.

The crows / ravens / cormorants are messengers of death. The rephaim (half human / half demon) race are often seen as them.

According to the Architect in the film 'The Matrix' there is only one computer glitch in this World 6. All other bugs were cleaned up long ago.

If a crow gives 3 squawks, twice in a row, it is usually a warning that someone or something is nearby and it wants to kill you.

originally posted by: Rapha


If a crow gives 3 squawks, twice in a row, it is usually a warning that someone or something is nearby and it wants to kill you.

Despite my experience as a child, I have never paid attention to crows. I never think of anything when I see them but now that you have mentioned it, I hope not to hear any squawk.

originally posted by: MamaJ


I wouldn't say "exploit" per say but there are circumstances whereas choices may have come into play that changes the outcome. The plan being altered in a sense.

Perhaps you could elaborate on the circumstances.

originally posted by: Rapha
For many their time is up when there are no gain for the mortals left behind.

I think there is something to investigate there. I have a theory on this.

originally posted by: Argentbenign
We are not ourselves, we are the owners of ourselves. We do not need to cheat death. We are already immortal.

I agree that we are immortal . However, for the purpose of completing some task which benefit our peers or something/someone in the environment of the present incarnation, it may be useful to extend the tariff.

I remember one more. When I was nine or ten years old I was running fast, while a kid put his leg on my post and I flew down from a perform making a flip and landing on the concrete two meters below. I had a black out. When I woke up on the concrete all the kids were around me, but I was totally fine. Just a strange thing, I had miniature wound on my eyebrow, I thing I could not explain to myself neither my parents how happened. The platform indeed was high enough for me to break neck while falling. Dunno, maybe I did but it and lapsed to another reality.

I had something like that too. I was in my teens and drunk on a motorbike very late at night. I hit something which sent me somersaulting in the air. Strangely, my bike landed on its two wheels and I carried on ( thanking the "hand" of God)

a reply to: crowdedskies Yay! Crazy. I can almost feel it! Biker here too. I ride Honda Shadow. Were you on racing bike that day?

originally posted by: crowdedskies
Despite my experience as a child, I have never paid attention to crows. I never think of anything when I see them but now that you have mentioned it, I hope not to hear any squawk.

Normally, when the triple squawks occur if people unknown to you still have knowledge and wisdom to gain from your experiences, then fate will always be on your side. Just look at the eyes of people that pass you in the street straight after. Sometimes in the first instant, their eyes are black - hence demonic. Once they know you see their true form, they always hesitate and abort the potential attack.

Personally i find the squawks relaxing; especially on a winters day.

In a way the crows and ravens are like guardian angels or bloodline spirits. You only have to read the legend stating that when the ravens that reside at the Tower of London leave for good, then the British Monarchy will fall.

Hmm. Very nice thread you have here.

Personally, I have never had any near death experiences in my life unless you count the time I spent a couple nights in the hospital when I was bit by a copperhead snake. And all I can remember about that is waking up out of a drug induced slumber a handful of times to go potty.

The only fact of life that is for certain is that all things must come to an end. It's a battle of Life and Death.

From your experience, it sounds to me like death doesn't even know when it's supposed to take its next victim. And i don't think we have any bargaining chips. I just think with our growing intelligence we have learned to cheat at this battle.

Unfortunately, this is a battle that even cheaters can't win at.





a reply to: crowdedskies

originally posted by: Argentbenign
a reply to: crowdedskies Yay! Crazy. I can almost feel it! Biker here too. I ride Honda Shadow. Were you on racing bike that day?

No , I am not a biker. I was on holiday and hired a motorbike when I had very little experience of riding.

I would have been able to give you more details of the aerodynamics of the somersault if I knew what was happening

a reply to: crowdedskies You were gambling with a bike, I see. Then the luck of the novice possibly saved you. But I don't advice you trying it again.

From your experience, it sounds to me like death doesn't even know when it's supposed to take its next victim. And i don't think we have any bargaining chips. I just think with our growing intelligence we have learned to cheat at this battle.

Unfortunately, this is a battle that even cheaters can't win at.

I think it is more a case that Death is 98% sure . Sometimes, however, he/she/it makes the journey on a "maybe ... maybe not " basis.

There seems to be a little margin where the dying person can muster enough strength/purpose to survive. My feeling is that Death has to be there for a reason. Almost as if, if he was not there, the laws of the Universe would collapse should the person die in his absence. There would be a glitch in the system like in the movie "A matter of life and death"

originally posted by: Argentbenign
When I was nine or ten years old I was running fast, while a kid put his leg on my path and I flew down from a platform, making a flip and landing on the concrete... two meters below. I had a black out. When I woke up on the concrete all the kids were around me, but I was totally fine. Just a strange thing, I had miniature wound on my eyebrow, A thing I could not explain to myself neither to my parents... how it happened. The platform indeed was high enough to break neck while falling. Dunno, maybe I did but right away lapsed to another reality. 😊 I have also two more death stories as I was 4 and 5, but I don't remember them personally. Just a fragments from the second one. Parents were really scared with me as a kid 👶

It's curious also one of my vivid dreams. It was with intensity almost of REM experience. In my dream I died and then time-traveled to my 11th years of age, and started a new life from there on. The interesting thing was that in my 11 years old body I remembered the death I just experienced, and thought of it and its knowing like something normal.

I did not deal with all the contents of your post earlier.

The above is very interesting. There are many possibilities there. I feel that perhaps you were reborn several times with the same incarnation ID but maybe a different soul that absorbed the experience of the previous one.

I can't help feeling that , like cats, some of us have many lives. Many souls taking turn to power one incarnation for some reason.

a reply to: crowdedskies Life likes to make his jokes from time to time.(or like every second minute, but we can catch this quite rarely) In order to remind us that he is way above us. But regardless if we are able to cheat death or slip through mice-holes, we'll be always the students of his majesty. Hope we pay attention in class.

Absorb this number into your psyche: 10 octilion, or 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

That is the number of atoms within your cells and between your cells structuring the flow of matter into the person that you are.

Do you think this could happen by 'coincidence', or by an intensely lawful biodynamical coherency searching system that reduces all processes to the same measure: relax the stresses moving through the (chemical-molecular) system,.

At a higher global level, what we call "consciousness", emerges as a representation of the activities of its quantified parts, representing "their" needs in the expression of the whole.

So, around 75 trillion cells (out of the above mentioned atoms) organize your complexity, and 'you', the singular consciousness, are yourself inextricably tied into a larger structure - the social structure. The feelings of enlivenment - literally filling your body with energetic 'chi' (in your language), and thus biomolecular excitation, lead towards the construction of a consciousness (an ego) that is made out of its actual field-relations with lived Others (the people who enliven you). You are a part of them and they you.

You are therefore a product - a "particularization", of a larger whole, which organizes the affective energies in the system dynamics that determine the nature of our experiences: either they make our lives happy - itself arising in experiences of self-self correlation - or unhappy, from those times we put ourselves in opposition (de-correlation) with Others.

It's interesting that living in a body with others, and developing meaning with others - because it is happening with others, it is therefore ontologically dependent on the logic of the cause-effect linkage that your self (brain-mind) continuously gives expression to.

So, I'm skeptical that there is an ultimate way out of the 'system'. If we are a particulate of a larger (human-society) based "universal Self", than what happens to us will probably be determined by our lived-life relation to the dynamics that allow the creation of a human brain-mind i.e. consciousness.

Who knows, maybe you can escape this? Or maybe that is just your brain-mind compelling you to the most affectively coherent idea?

In any case, I'm not a dualist. This form of being may have an essential dynamical relationhip to the next form of being (death) - a sort of "involution" upon the self-creation process itself, before an integration with the 'point' at top (love).

a reply to: crowdedskies

I'm intrigued to get this movie and watch it now

I too feel that there could possibly be multiple dimensions and maybe when we dream, we enter an alternative universe our "other" self is experiencing or when we die (near death) we catch a glimpse of "another" part of our soul in their dimension and so forth.

Of course it could also be all in the mind, what we feel and experience near death could be based on our sub conscious of what we have been told or other stories we head about and our minds create their own version as such... this too could lead to an interesting theory I read up on: Solipsism...

a reply to: crowdedskies

I think I might have visited instead of getting a visit. Your post made me think of a dream I had a long time ago. I was about 21 and came down with a terrible fever of 103 and headache. I went to the doctor and he thought it was mono. Got my script for penicillin and took it. It did nothing but break me out in hives.

I was in and out of a fever every few hours for a week. During one of my frequent periods of sleep I had a peculiar dream where I floated up and out of my closed bedroom window and instead of the back yard, there was a green field that stretched for a very long distance. I realized there were a large number of people walking in the in the same direction so I began walking with them. They were dressed in clothing from different time periods, some chatting, some just walking along. I finally got to the end of the field where there was a dock and a large ship. Everybody was boarding but when my turn came, I was told to go back. I wish I could remember what the person looked like, that told me. So I walked back but the walk seemed much shorter and I popped back from my window into my bed.

At the time I didn't give it much thought, and just chalked it up to delirium from the fever, which by the way turned out to be a raging sinus infection (after suffering with a high fever for a week, I got a second opinion from a different doctor and got the right prescription and was better in two days...) but now I wonder about the different time periods of clothing and being turned away and maybe there was something to it.

originally posted by: Astrocyte

So, I'm skeptical that there is an ultimate way out of the 'system'. If we are a particulate of a larger (human-society) based "universal Self", than what happens to us will probably be determined by our lived-life relation to the dynamics that allow the creation of a human brain-mind i.e. consciousness.

Who knows, maybe you can escape this? Or maybe that is just your brain-mind compelling you to the most affectively coherent idea?

There is a paradox here (and ,God knows, I love paradoxes).

In my own experience and research, I have found that the predictability of the Universe and the universal mind is the very thing that provides the unpredictability and the potential for an individual to create something new.

By using the laws of the universe you can achieve many things. The law will oblige. It always does. For example , put yourself in front of a mirror and there it is - your reflection. By the same token, put something in the astral by imagination and will and ,sure enough, it has to reflect on the material. That is the oldest magical trick , if somewhat basic.

So, despite the order of things and the seemingly purposeful inter-action within the Universal mind, there is plenty of scope. I am only interested in extended the lease of life because there is so much to be done and so little time.