Is the Illuminati good or evil

a reply to: tikbalang

Thanks for that tickabling

I do not doubt Manly P Hall was a good man
I have heard his name often but never read his work
Perhaps I should

Good points you make
I also am against nepotism it often occurs within family and organisations
But yes merit is earned and not a birth right

There has been many a fool to wear a crown

Once I was told that the Illuminati's goal was the unification of the globe (a one world government) so we can be allowed to join the rest of the universe. (Imagine trying to deal with a planet with 160 some-odd countries at one time). Looking at humans today, it'll probably be a while.

a reply to: underwerks

Yes when studying Adam Weishaupt as far as I am able
It would suggest a unified world
However a world government is another matter

He spoke of the world becoming an abode of reasonable men
Where the happiness of the Human Race was a main consideration
This idea is not his alone nor ever was
It is a shared idea of reasonable men and may I add women
In fact he speaks of women in reverent terms
The fair sex then being subjugated and their liberation being a prime importance

I don't believe the Illuminati exist in the way that is commonly thought, 'Illuminati' is only one term among many that they use in order to demonize what is good. Illuminati means enlightened so by associating that word with evil they have demonized the light. They are making a concerted effort to suppress the light and promote darkness. The corrupt society we have built goes to show how effective their work has been up to this point.

originally posted by: imjack
Many were masons or in groups controlled by masons.

You did not answer my question, which secret society is for farmers?

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: tikbalang
I also am against nepotism it often occurs within family and organisations
But yes merit is earned and not a birth right

Its what families are kind of supposed to do for each other, isn't it? You know, look out for each other.

No one complains when a father teaches his son a trade, or if a mate hooks up another mate with a job on the factory floor... so why should it be such an issue when its done in positions that involve wealth & influence?

I personally think the Illuminati definitely still exist... seems like these days its just a secret society, which seems popular amoung American Jewish families in Hollywood, who are seemingly more obsessed with the 'American dream' than your average American.

To be honestly, I'm fine with the way of life Hollywood sells... overall.

Without going into the depths of how the various works Hollywood has clearly positively influenced our global society over the years... I think its fair to say they've actually created an alternative to religion, which people from any back ground, culture or race can all relate to in one way or another.

I can't personally pick much wrong with the Illuminati's (supposed) Philosophies...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

For Farmers?

The Illuminati.


American Farmers joined the Masons.


The Egyptian Farmers literally created the Illuminati and Many American Masons took over Farming the Midwest with technology, buying out old farms.

Masons have MANY controlled groups of Farmers- too many to list, thats the main reason I don't understand your question.

The "Farmers Alliance" is also considered a "secret society" with secret meetings.

The "Farmers Movement" is a secret order.

"The Gardeners Order"

Etc. Etc.

There are more secret societies for farmers than any occupation in existance, including politics.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Watched the vid
Have seen it before however

Lots of unprovable speculation
However in the deluge of accusation directed that Adam Weishaupt being responsible for
Bloody Wars

Adam Weishaupt never prescribed violence

Within any organisation you get zealots who fail to grasp basic tenents

The Human Mind/Condition is such that many often act on animal instincts and impulse rather than reason and rationality
Just look at the slaughter that has occured by religous ones in the name of their chosen god
While peace and goodwill to all is conviently over looked

One thing any intelligent person can tell you is
Though Human Beings may be easily led it is another matter to control them actions due to the inherent free choice all are born with

Seems like they're roots were, science knowledge and philosophy etc..

and the church did not like it.

History said the church started to murder them in the streets

Idk if they were good though

- awareness

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Yes speaking of Nepotism you are correct
That learning is passed down amonst family members
As such some are at an advantage
Though any are capapable of rising to so called higher levels of society
It depends what you fill your mind with

The Illuminati sought to draw in influential people
Today music, film and other arts do hold influence over large followers
This of course is not nefarious
It depends on how such artists use their influence

One objective of the Illuminati was to spread their symbols far and wide to draw in the curious
Creating a sort of mystery ... The public loves a good mystery

A two edged sword in a way
For the use of the title Illuminati can be used for nefarious purpose

But an intelligent mind will search for the truth
Here say and rumour bears no substance in such a search

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Argentbenign


However the nefarious activities they are accused of do not match up
with Adam Weishaupts surviving writings and philosphy

My concern about that being untrue is the exact interpretation of Weishaupt's ideas.

I'll give you my view in a nutshell, otherwise I'll have to make a whole new thread to explain it in detail.

Egypt, middle kingdom, is the real goal of the illuminati. And properly interpreted the aims of Adam shows a affinity exactly to this type of governance. The goal is to be reached in the way of conjunction of the new-age philosophy( a follow-up of theosophy, which is their creation) with the torn apart and severed body of the world's societies(reached through wars and terrorism). This is not a new idea, it's old Egyptian paradigm, called "Resurrection of Osiris". The only missing part from the body of the torn apart god, which is a key point in the ritual is played by technology itself. The costumes and masks at ready. The public is at the hall. "And the fat lady sings".
If you are not familiar with the myths of the Egyptians, then think of it as a Buddhist type of meditation, where one reaches enlightenment through deep internal determination combined with physical nihilism. New age infusions are the internal factor, and constant affliction of human suffering worldwide is the physical act. One of their priests, the faggot Crowley very clearly states in many if his books that there is gonna be blood in the act of "upbringing of humanity". A mass sacrifice, if you will. Nothing different than what we see in third world countries. The current ritual of resurrection of Osiris is taking place in my very personal and subjective opinion since the year of 1916, but it could be even with earlier startup. There is also a good deal of historical leads to connect the old Egyptian priesthood with the current affairs. Like the story with the Bavarian Illuminati Egyptian illuminati had to scatter through the world hinted by the demolition of their "fortress". Firstly they merge throughout the Hebrews, after the third kingdom falls. Then the Egyptian priesthood ideas goes in northern Europe, brought by the VI Kings, the Six Hebrew tribes that merged with the Norse people. Now, Bavaria is not far away at all, their influence is spread thought the centuries in the Danish/Germanic societies, but also further. Here's the Egyptian connection explained as simple as I can. Yet, this would not be enough for the new rise of the illuminati - the revival of the Egyptian priesthood with its profound ideas, if it had not went married with the Roman mysticism, which is with Sumerian roots and is quite more aggressive in manner. "The means are justified by the cause". The wedding brings events you know already of and exactly 100 years after the allegedly poised by me year 1916 we are about to see the end phase of the ritual of resurrection of Osiris, followed by the recreating once more of the Middle Kingdom ideas, on the face of the newly born One World, or in their language - Unus Mundus(this has deeper meaning, which they priestfuly neglect, I can bet).
So, "It ain't all over till the fat lady sings". Just make it several more years or so...

And if you are wondering why I can't accept this as something positive, it's because nevermind the different governance system Egypt was less than what the after books praise it to be. They had sharing, quite respectful for the time and good hearted education, but for the brain part, it was neglected to much, in my humble opinion of non-professional Egyptologist. I possibly have better plan for humanity, but I won't be the dumbass to force it upon anyone, even if it's our last chance. Because I know something that illuminati have not ever published in their story-books. You serve what you serve, not what you pretend to. I would choose Valhalla above the pity recreation of Eden. You can't crown the truth for a king by placing on its forehead a crown made of lies. The universal laws does not work like this. Who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

In a nutshell that's it.

a reply to: Argentbenign

Yes Adam Weishaupt was interested in Ancient Egypt
As am I

Not really interested in Crowley however
Not my bag

The worship of graven images is not for me
As such the priesthood of Amun were corrupt

God and Goddess had a different meaning originally from what westerners consider by such terms
They were natural laws
As such the mythological figures represented aspects of the Human Condition
Role models if you please within storys people could relate to

However these gods and goddesses became idols of worship, temples being erected in their names
Due to superstition and the the self prestige of their agents/priests

See what happened to Jesus by the Catholic Church

Osiris is nothing more or less than a mytholigal figure to explain the mystery of death

Sorry I am going to leave it here as it gets far too complicated

I do not see how Adam Weishaupts ideas have anything to do with this
Without asking him in person

Yes he used ritual becuase people are drawn in by such ways
He understood the religous mind and it's limitations
As he did the carnal mind

I think it unfair and ingenous to place our projections on him without full knowledge of him
That is why I wish to refer to his own words rather than what others say of him

He understood his plan was not perfect
Because he understood the Human Condition
No one is perfect but that does not mean we should not strive for perfection

With respect
Your ideas are your own and as such can not be projected onto him

originally posted by: artistpoet
Firstly, there is no hard proof of the Illuminati's existence in the present day
Though many claim that title

We do know and have proof that the Illuminati once existed

Adam Weishaupt (Spatacus) being it's founder stated
" I am proud to be known to the world as the founder of the Illuminati"

Here are few other quotes of Adam's to wet the appetite
of those interested in gleaning an understanding of the Illuminati's philosphy

"When man lives under government, he is fallen,
his worth is gone, and his nature tarnished."

« And what is this general object? The happiness of the human race. But where are the proper persons, the good, the generous and the accomplished to be found? And how, and by what strong motives, are they to be induced to be engaged, in a task so vast, so incessant, so difficult and so laborious? "

"Morality will perform all this; and Morality is the fruit of Illumination."

"This is the great object held out by this association; and the means of attaining it is illumination, enlightening the understanding by the sun of reason which will dispell the clouds of superstition and of prejudice"

More reading of writings and correspondance of Adam Weishaupt can be found in the link below

michelduchaine.com... 09/12/writings-and-correspondence-of-adam-weishaupt-and-the-bavarian-illuminati/

Now the big question is
Are there any who have carried the flame forward in to this present day

How can we judge who is adhering to the original philosphy and who is not
Simple ... We need to examine the ideas/philosophy of Adam Weishaupt
Then apply that to modern groups such as the one I am a member of

Here is a link to the archives of this group

illuminati.am...

Now there is no hard proof this group is the true Illuminati
All we can do is examine the ideas

This group is an outreach experiment
A department of the larger organisation

What was the reason for creating this outreach experiment
To dispell the idle gossip and malicous rumours attributed to the Illuminati

This thread is to allow discussion on the ideas put forward by this group and also the ideas of Adam Weishaupt
Speculation is also welcomed for consideration

But if you wish to pooh pooh the ideas without proof of perceived falsity
You will be peeing in the wind

I for one have reviewed the illuminati.am material, and am well pleased at it's philosophical attributes.
I find your outreach worthy.
I seek deeper connection to this element.

a reply to: prevenge

Thanks for saying so
But to be clear I am not a creator of it's content
Those people have to remain annonymous

Yes I find the philosophy in accord with Adam Weishaupts philosophy
But of course here we are 200 years down the line
So much having happened and new insights and approaches gleaned
But the goals are the same for sure

a reply to: imjack

You are all over the place. First you say they joined the Illuminati (which never made it to the United States) and then you say they joined the Masons. While some farmers may indeed have joined the Masons that does not correlate to a secret society for farmers. Using that same weird logic my lodge is a lodge for funeral directors since there are 7 of them in my lodge.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

my lodge is a lodge for funeral directors since there are 7 of them in my lodge.

They must come in handy
You know ... after "those" rituals and all that

Forgive my silly sense of humour
I am running a fever

originally posted by: [post=21319473]
With respect
Your ideas are your own and as such can not be projected onto him

But maybe there is a possibility my ideas to represent the reality.., then you, friend, have been fooled by luminous Words, cunning and deceitful, yet colored in pink and blue. It's either me throwing dust upon a clean sheet, of the sheet is really really dirty. What is gonna be, let's throw a coin, huh? Or better, let's ask our reason. What's yours yelling you? That illuminati are pure philanthropists, evil villains, or the picture is not so "black versus white". You don't need to listen to me, your own gut is gonna give you the right answer

a reply to: Argentbenign

The words/ideas of Adam Weishaupt and the group I belong to are very straight forward and easy to understand
Nothing to do with being Black or White

Where is this deceit you speak of so we can discuss

Let us keep this as simple and clear as possible

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: imjack
American Farmers have clearly had their own secret societies also...

What secret society for farmers is there?

Have you not remember the black slave trade? Obviously proof. The only fall on US farmers was their own greed and corrupt which lead to centuries of wild west. Today, we have Monsanto doing shhs to the independents.

a reply to: artistpoet There is much to do with black and white. But let's not attribute the credits to me, your thread name is pointing at this(evil/good black/white).
Okay, I'll keep it simple. I say that in my opinion the things are more complex than black and white. There is that good will which resided in ancient societies, incorporate in the teaching of the illuminati. But the truth is that this is just a fabula. A lie created by the biggest authority of the organization - It's own egregor. Masterfully twisted into idea appealing to the subjected servants in the order. The deceit is, to make all, even possibly most of the highest leaders believe they are in control and the work they do will bring the ends they desire. Wrong. When I refer that illuminati plans are sinister in some way, this not necessarily means that there are evil people consorting evil plans for us. Of course they are not virgin purity neither, to be able to join the high ranks of the order, but nevermind. The evil plan is considered by the egregor itself. The others are all puppets. Even the top ones. And we are speaking of very ancient egregor here, not done coca-cola type recent babies.