Revisiting Jaques Vallée - Beyond the Control Loop

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: billydebunker

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: billydebunker

A flying saucer stopped all air traffic in the middle of the day at the nations busiest airport, O'Hare, in 2007. Not expectations, simply tangible reality. It is impossible to pretend otherwise.

Someone reporting they saw something that wasn't there would have the same effect. Try screaming "FIRE!" in a movie theater.

Let me get this straight with you too.

Are you saying that a flying saucer did NOT hover over O'Hare airport?

My point was that lots of things can cause air traffic to "stop". So of course, something unidentified in flight paths would cause air traffic to be diverted or whatever. It's not proof something was actually there.

Was that yes or no quesion too difficult for you?

a reply to: tetra50

Knowledge is the real thing which sets us apart from animals. But I would say it's abstract. Knowledge is you interpreting your data.

a reply to: billydebunker

Tsk, Tsk, mirageman, mirageman. Please don't play dumb, you know as well as I do that the entire stretch of road where this happened, and the earth beneath it, and the shoulders of the road, was completely dug up and replaced by the Army Corps of Engineers within a day of the incident. So really, man, you're a better debunker than that.

Where did you get the information that the Army could get a whole load of asphalt and a team of engineers out just before New Year's Eve and resurface the road? The road section was entirely repaved in 1982 when major expansion work was undertaken in the area.

Am I trying to debunk the case? Absolutely not. There is still something being covered up now and it's not the road surface. What was the craft? What caused symptoms of radiation poisoning to the witnesses? There are still unanswered questions in this case over 3 decades later.

originally posted by: billydebunker

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: billydebunker

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: billydebunker

A flying saucer stopped all air traffic in the middle of the day at the nations busiest airport, O'Hare, in 2007. Not expectations, simply tangible reality. It is impossible to pretend otherwise.

Someone reporting they saw something that wasn't there would have the same effect. Try screaming "FIRE!" in a movie theater.

Let me get this straight with you too.

Are you saying that a flying saucer did NOT hover over O'Hare airport?

My point was that lots of things can cause air traffic to "stop". So of course, something unidentified in flight paths would cause air traffic to be diverted or whatever. It's not proof something was actually there.

Was that yes or no quesion too difficult for you?

Let me put it this way. Perhaps maybe but not necessarily. My answer is as vague as any ufo. You make what you want from it. But yes. what does it matter anyway? and no.

One thing is for sure, if a guy like Vallee couldn’t find the truth likely nobody will.

That is a universal accepted truth which may be asking too much. In any case, we really won't get it from a guy like Steve Greer or any of these AlienUFO hunters who have all been baffled. Granted some are dogmatic that they have the truth but that's as good as a religious belief.

Vallee was the perfect kind of guy to find the truth: erudite, scientific methodology, open to anything, and connected.

Lets start over from scratch or

Just keep lookin

originally posted by: Willtell
Vallee was the perfect kind of guy to find the truth: erudite, scientific methodology, open to anything, and connected.
Lets start over from scratch or
Just keep lookin

I'm afraid we can keep lookin 'til the alien cows come home, but we just don't have the right kind of perceptual or intellectual abilities to make reasonable (to us) sense out of it.

a reply to: Willtell

One thing is for sure, if a guy like Vallee couldn’t find the truth likely nobody will.

That is a universal accepted truth which may be asking too much.

You are fired. Jack's spin on UFOs, or his lack of ability to spin UFOs, is not a "universal truth". You're fired Will.

a reply to: Blue Shift

we just don't have the right kind of perceptual or intellectual abilities to make reasonable (to us) sense out of it.

I know, right, because how could the same apparatus that doesn't understand be the same apparatus that is "experiencing" UFOs?

You are also fired.

Sheesh.

a reply to: Dan00

After you fired almost the entire crew, pretty unnecessarily, cards on the table, where does it not add up?
What is in the way of us getting the right answer? Weed out the bs is a good start, what do we know?
Gouvernment shows up pretty often, make the evidence disappear? What do they know? What's their agenda? Why aren't they sharing stacks? Is it far more "physical" than we think?
It's possible to keep a lot of secrets. As long as there are distractions exciting enough. Ideas you right on banners and demand freedom of information! Is what we need. Not more empty shells and posers. Content, not Greer, Vallée, Hyeck, or what's their name, what they stood for, before they got caught up in details.
UFOlogy if anything means a lot of us have to see through the data, report their patterns and hints towards patterns, save it somewhere easy to find and let us the gullible weird masses of enthusiast, question-askern, wildly creative, straightforward people, moms of all sexes, do what we do, talk about it, see where it goes, new, fresh ideas.
Someone is hiding something. Maybe we should share stacks how far politics goes to keep "minor" secrets. Their kinks. Could be a hint towards how they handle big secrets.



If Johnson would want to make a leap forwards "freedom of information". No exception no excuse.

a reply to: Peeple

What is in the way of us getting the right answer?

Ourselves being honest about what we are experiencing. That's really it.

You ask a lot of good questions and I know this subject burns inside of you as it does me, and anyone else at ATS that is still willing to engage in this frustrating discussion. So I will try and let you know where I am coming from as best I can over time and posts.

Don't worry about those jokers; I have fired them all at least a half a dozen times over the years.

Here's some food for thought until I am too tired to rant about it:

I had my first visual migraine in my forties. Despite my experience with extreme sleep paralysis starting in my early youth, the effects of the "silent migraine" freaked me out so bad I called my Mom, "Mom, what the hell!??", and she was all like, "Calm down, it's just a visual migraine, it'll pass, I have had them too".

Okay, so my point is, I could have just gone off on some tangent, I could have just gone with whatever my limited experience told me was going on, I could have made up any old story about, oh, I don't know, how about "visions of God and Angels and The Light of Heaven", who knows?. Once I settled down when they happen I realized that my visual migraines are accompanied by a sense of deep peacefulness. I coulda worked that up in to anything.

See, some do. Imagine the stories that we all become glued to that are simply the ramblings of those that experience stuff like that.

I told stories, too. But I stopped.

UFOs are hiding a way that the government hides things.

a reply to: Dan00

Okay, point taken, your story, surely true for some. But what if not for all? The super crazy ones on ATS come in waves, those really freaking out. We already established it is always deception and lies, but there were instances, where it just becomes obvious it goes beyond the main character.
The environment acts in a certain way, they might be going through a different personal play, but it fits the story you experience so perfectly.
Did you ever have people barking for you? Throwing kisses at you, while you're in their shop? It's nice, but it goes further, I woke up with tiny, but a lot of scabs around my both wrists, with a weird wound under my arm. That's all I know about that night, door was locked, I was alone.
People showed up out of nowhere buying me bustickets, offering me festival tickets, getting me a taxi, just because I asked for a direction, synchronicity #.
I don't even mention all the tiny stuff, my laptop writing with nobody touching the keys. One website two entirely different layouts and opposite content within an hour. Yes it was the same.
Not everybody has sleep paralysis, but I am glad you found your answer.

a reply to: Peeple

I am glad you found your answer.

Me, too, and I am certain that you are on your way to finding yours.



P.S. I appreciate you sharing a sort of montage of your convincing experiences, but believe me: if that's all you got? I got stories that are way stranger. If mystery wounds and people being nice to you freaks you out, I can't imagine how you'd survive as me.

And I don't believe in aliens.

???

You are fired as well.



ETA: Oh one more thing:

What you have essentially described is that you had an experience of "High Strangeness" that acted as a sort of portal to a broadened sense of how we are all networked together, and that is the hallmark of these sorts of experiences.

That is what you share with anyone else that has been there too.

That right there is it. All of it, that we need to break the stupid loop and push our understanding forward.

And that is pretty much my payload.

Happy Halloween.

Not everybody has sleep paralysis

And never said that everyone did.

U and The Crew, often like to slap that one down as some sort of branded commodity that can be exchanged with me during these discussions as representative of my entire argument.

Not so, the temporal lobes are involved in a wide spectrum of neurological effects that human beings experience that causes them to produce stories involving all manner of "supernatural" stuff. Because that stuff is "super" to what we know as natural.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: billydebunker

Tsk, Tsk, mirageman, mirageman. Please don't play dumb, you know as well as I do that the entire stretch of road where this happened, and the earth beneath it, and the shoulders of the road, was completely dug up and replaced by the Army Corps of Engineers within a day of the incident. So really, man, you're a better debunker than that.

Where did you get the information that the Army could get a whole load of asphalt and a team of engineers out just before New Year's Eve and resurface the road? The road section was entirely repaved in 1982 when major expansion work was undertaken in the area.

Am I trying to debunk the case? Absolutely not. There is still something being covered up now and it's not the road surface. What was the craft? What caused symptoms of radiation poisoning to the witnesses? There are still unanswered questions in this case over 3 decades later.

Please. Maybe the british army can't get their sh*t together like that, but ours can and did.
And don't pretend you haven't read that is what happened in the Cash-Landrum case.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: billydebunker

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: billydebunker

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: billydebunker

A flying saucer stopped all air traffic in the middle of the day at the nations busiest airport, O'Hare, in 2007. Not expectations, simply tangible reality. It is impossible to pretend otherwise.

Someone reporting they saw something that wasn't there would have the same effect. Try screaming "FIRE!" in a movie theater.

Let me get this straight with you too.

Are you saying that a flying saucer did NOT hover over O'Hare airport?

My point was that lots of things can cause air traffic to "stop". So of course, something unidentified in flight paths would cause air traffic to be diverted or whatever. It's not proof something was actually there.

Was that yes or no quesion too difficult for you?

Let me put it this way. Perhaps maybe but not necessarily. My answer is as vague as any ufo. You make what you want from it. But yes. what does it matter anyway? and no.

Empty and meaningless post. Can't waste my time.

originally posted by: Willtell
One thing is for sure, if a guy like Vallee couldn’t find the truth likely nobody will.

That is a universal accepted truth which may be asking too much. In any case, we really won't get it from a guy like Steve Greer or any of these AlienUFO hunters who have all been baffled. Granted some are dogmatic that they have the truth but that's as good as a religious belief.

Vallee was the perfect kind of guy to find the truth: erudite, scientific methodology, open to anything, and connected.

Lets start over from scratch or

Just keep lookin

I believe Vallee is disinformation, and he ignored the vast majority of alien contact reports to cook up his stew of BS.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Willtell
Vallee was the perfect kind of guy to find the truth: erudite, scientific methodology, open to anything, and connected.
Lets start over from scratch or
Just keep lookin

I'm afraid we can keep lookin 'til the alien cows come home, but we just don't have the right kind of perceptual or intellectual abilities to make reasonable (to us) sense out of it.

Please don't drive a car, you don't have the right kind of perceptual or intellectual abilities to make reasonable sense of it. You'll kill innocent people on the highway with such poor perception and intellect.

Or do we only get so stupid when it means that aliens are real?

I believe Vallee is disinformation, and he ignored the vast majority of alien contact reports to cook up his stew of BS.

What cases (specifically) did he ignore?

a reply to: Dan00

No aliens just isn't connected to the same image, mine just goes by the meaning of the word: stranger. I am not saying I maybe don't have a toxoplasma gondii infection. But then that thing is playfull on a mind control background. The story is perfect! It has everything, love, betrayal, aliens, god, politics, everything perfectly timed, with pauses to cook in your own juice. Then you follow a certain side-storyline and again: perfect coincidences guide you. Learning something new. If all I've been through is coincidence, then wow! That's the point, these are wow signals, mind blowers. All of that has one thing in common, contain and direct attention. Wow.
It's at least playfull like an animal, just on a mind-riding meadow. Meaning, "it" is calling the shots and we just ... some of us just watch. Others are horses. The weather, other animals, information, time, "it" can control all of that. Are you saying that is just me? I am flattered, but no.

originally posted by: ColdWisdom

I believe Vallee is disinformation, and he ignored the vast majority of alien contact reports to cook up his stew of BS.

What cases (specifically) did he ignore?

Come on. Vallee? Where do you begin to list where this charlatan had to ignore data to reach his unsupported claims?

He ignored every case where aliens in ships come and physically abduct people. Any case where a flying saucer landed. Every case where a person was burned or exposed to radiation. Every case where a person says they had medical procedures performed on them. Every. Single. Case.

Starts with the Hills. Then every other case too.

a reply to: Peeple

If all I've been through is coincidence

It's not!

Dude/ette? That was an awesome post up there.

Are you saying that is just me?

No. It's all of us, and the whole planet...you know: everything and #.

It's what we are doing here. That's it. We hardly know what it is, but it is obviously Us, not you.

a reply to: Dan00

Excuse the following outburst.

The fundamental interconnectedness of all things! The answer to the question about life the universe and everything! What the f ¥ck is 42!

It's the bigger one and a part of it! Full population half population. Depends on who you ask, kind of thing!
The I communicating with the we?