10 months in jail for 87yo grandma who said Auschwitz was a labor camp.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The view isn't outlawed. The speech is. Somehow that keeps escaping you and others like you. She's welcome to move to America and say whatever she wants about the holocaust.

That's a stupid distinction.

What an incredibly well reasoned and well crafted rebuttal.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Willtell
democracy?

Freedom of thought?

She's free to think whatever she pleases. She hasn't been in trouble for what she thinks, but rather what she does about her thoughts.

freedom of speech applies here too.

The moment you make illegal disagreeing with majority culture or some historical concept, then you open the door to the government forbidding other things from being discussed. It's a very dangerous and slippery slope.

Well that slope is over 30 years old and nothing has happened.

You obviously lack historical understanding.

Let me guess. You read a book.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The view isn't outlawed. The speech is. Somehow that keeps escaping you and others like you. She's welcome to move to America and say whatever she wants about the holocaust.

That's a stupid distinction.

What an incredibly well reasoned and well crafted rebuttal.

Rebuttal. Is that where one continues to make an ass of themselves?

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

OK, thanks to Mods i can now upload pics of my visit ..... here is the first, was done as a test so that I could confirm posting, more to follow in this thread, or another, when i re-size the rest of them

Thanks Mods

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Sadly, yes. However, it was told to me that the greatest part of the americans were very friendly towards the population, I feel that has to be said again after my post.

whale.to...


Sure they were

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
a reply to: gladtobehere

She isn't questioning it though. She flat out said:

From OP source:

During her defence she said that the Holocaust of six million Jews 'was the greatest and longest lived lie in history.'

That's a statement, plain and simple. No questions there, she called it a lie.

Freedom of speech includes freedom of opinion... Including statements.

Did you miss my post earlier that pointed out the the 1st only applies to the US?

You seem to have problems understanding that some laws are unjust.... And no, more places than just the US have freedom of speech..

The German high court doesn't seem to think it's unjust. And it's your opinion that it is, which means what?

Dick all, that's what.

Freedom of conscience and speech is considered a primary form of freedom. Even the UN agrees on that regarding human rights. And yes, I absolutely have the right to judge this law.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The view isn't outlawed. The speech is. Somehow that keeps escaping you and others like you. She's welcome to move to America and say whatever she wants about the holocaust.

That's a stupid distinction.

What an incredibly well reasoned and well crafted rebuttal.

I'm sorry, I have yet to see an intelligent rebuttal of our points. And your assertion that someone has freedom of 'view' but not of speech is prima facie ridiculous. There has never been a country on Earth where people couldn't have hidden beliefs. One aspect of totalitarian laws is that you can't VOICE them without legal consequences. Go learn some history.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Willtell
democracy?

Freedom of thought?

She's free to think whatever she pleases. She hasn't been in trouble for what she thinks, but rather what she does about her thoughts.

freedom of speech applies here too.

The moment you make illegal disagreeing with majority culture or some historical concept, then you open the door to the government forbidding other things from being discussed. It's a very dangerous and slippery slope.

Well that slope is over 30 years old and nothing has happened.

You obviously lack historical understanding.

Let me guess. You read a book.

Apparently more than you. Slippery slopes...

a reply to: gladtobehere
Either you believe in the freedom of speech or you don't. The ones who don't are either not Americans or need to move out of America because are not welcome here. They should at the very least move to California where they can be hypocrites and yet always feel right. That said, our rights are natural and not bound by borders. It is legal to speak what we will in any place on Earth because our rights render law invalid where the law is wrong.

The moment you attempt to limit the freedom of speech it is no longer a right. If a law attempts to violate a right, the law is null and void. In fact we are only bound to what we have agreed to follow. If the 87 year old never signed a written agreement saying she won't report Hitler's camps were labor camps, then she has no social contract preventing her from saying so.

I reject cultures that interfere with my natural rights. Germany is becoming Nazi again, clearly. If they hate Hitler so much then they should stop acting like the guy is their best buddy by implementing all his policies such as imprisoning people over speech. That would go much further in helping out their reputation.

I hope the half of the comments in support of the Nazi speech policies are not from Americans because if so these people need to move out... maybe move to Germany and start a labor camp... but they are very much anti-freedom and against us who have values of liberty.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
a reply to: gladtobehere

She isn't questioning it though. She flat out said:

From OP source:

During her defence she said that the Holocaust of six million Jews 'was the greatest and longest lived lie in history.'

That's a statement, plain and simple. No questions there, she called it a lie.

Freedom of speech includes freedom of opinion... Including statements.

Did you miss my post earlier that pointed out the the 1st only applies to the US?

You seem to have problems understanding that some laws are unjust.... And no, more places than just the US have freedom of speech..

The German high court doesn't seem to think it's unjust. And it's your opinion that it is, which means what?

Dick all, that's what.

Freedom of conscience and speech is considered a primary form of freedom. Even the UN agrees on that regarding human rights. And yes, I absolutely have the right to judge this law.

Even the UN's Human Rights Committee has stated that laws regarding the ban of holocaust denial aren't a violation of one's human rights.

Go learn some history

originally posted by: wayforward
a reply to: gladtobehere
Either you believe in the freedom of speech or you don't. The ones who don't are either not Americans or need to move out of America because are not welcome here. They should at the very least move to California where they can be hypocrites and yet always feel right. That said, our rights are natural and not bound by borders. It is legal to speak what we will in any place on Earth because our rights render law invalid where the law is wrong.

The moment you attempt to limit the freedom of speech it is no longer a right. If a law attempts to violate a right, the law is null and void. In fact we are only bound to what we have agreed to follow. If the 87 year old never signed a written agreement saying she won't report Hitler's camps were labor camps, then she has no social contract preventing her from saying so.

I reject cultures that interfere with my natural rights. Germany is becoming Nazi again, clearly. If they hate Hitler so much then they should stop acting like the guy is their best buddy by implementing all his policies such as imprisoning people over speech. That would go much further in helping out their reputation.

I hope the half of the comments in support of the Nazi speech policies are not from Americans because if so these people need to move out... maybe move to Germany and start a labor camp... but they are very much anti-freedom and against us who have values of liberty.

Yes, illegalizing free speech is a practice of TOTALITARIAN governments. You know, like the Nazis? Or USSR? The people on here supporting it fail to see the extreme irony here, and historically validated danger from such practices.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The view isn't outlawed. The speech is. Somehow that keeps escaping you and others like you. She's welcome to move to America and say whatever she wants about the holocaust.

That's a stupid distinction.

What an incredibly well reasoned and well crafted rebuttal.

Rebuttal. Is that where one continues to make an ass of themselves?

Wow, an ad hominem attack, the refuge of those losing an argument.

Here is the law I think she broke.


(3) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in section 6 (1) of the Code of International Criminal Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine.[31][32]

en.wikipedia.org...

What is there to deny btw it happened Hitler and his Nazi scumbags killed millions people like this woman should have consequences for her action of breaking the law.

a reply to: wayforward

Your right to free speech in America is also inhibited.

It's hystercial that in your rant about free speech, you resort to the old "this is America, love it or leave it!" shtick. Fairly certain fellow Americans enjoy the same right to free speech you're chastising them for using.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The view isn't outlawed. The speech is. Somehow that keeps escaping you and others like you. She's welcome to move to America and say whatever she wants about the holocaust.

That's a stupid distinction.

What an incredibly well reasoned and well crafted rebuttal.

Rebuttal. Is that where one continues to make an ass of themselves?

Wow, an ad hominem attack, the refuge of those losing an argument.

Nope. Just treating yours with the respect it deserves. You guys seem to think that your opinion extends to other countries. Ya'll beakin and I don't see any Germans here having any problem with this.

originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
What is there to deny btw it happened Hitler and his Nazi scumbags killed millions people like this woman should have consequences for her action of breaking the law.

Yes it happened, however stupidity should NOT be a crime, we're not saying she's right in what she says, we're saying she should have the right to say it.

It goes along the same lines as idiot trolls on twitter and facebook joking by saying x place/building should be bombed and then getting arrested and charged for saying it.

Saying stupid crap should NEVER be a crime

a reply to: intrepid

No! What we're saying is the law Germany is repressive and wrong or are we now not allowed to comment on the laws of other countries ? (knowing you guys you'd make it illegal)

a reply to: gladtobehere

Mode of transport

a reply to: wayforward

Oh please save me this BS rah rah free speech FREEDOM crap, you are not free none of us are in fact your country has gotten worse and you have done nothing about it.
You live in an illusion of freedom but just look at what laws in the states can just take away those freedoms.
In fact you are 20th on the human freedom index (Germany's 12th btw).

object.cato.org... (Btw fascinating read).

I swear I want to punch Mel Gibson in the face FREEDOM...my arse.

a reply to: Discotech

Fine. Repatriate to Germany and join a right wing party and enact change that you think THEY should have.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

Inscription regarding the mode of transport