10 months in jail for 87yo grandma who said Auschwitz was a labor camp.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

The fact that it's illegal to voice an opinion that differs from the official story, that's my problem with it. It doesn't matter if said opinion is wrong, it should not be illegal.

What is it with you people that is so difficult to understand why it is inherently wrong to make differing opinions illegal ?

a reply to: verschickter

Yeah, no different to what you've been trying to do

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: SeaWorthy

Yes, I have that right. I can question it. Asking a question is not the same as making a statement. Get over it.

You have the right to make statements too, under Hitler you would not that is the point!

a reply to: Discotech

Seriously?!

Sedition was the charge. NOT "voicing an opinion".

Here's the definition, AGAIN.

sedition
sɪˈdɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.
synonyms: incitement (to riot/rebellion), agitation, rabble-rousing, fomentation (of discontent), troublemaking, provocation, inflaming;

a reply to: gladtobehere

When your speech is calculated to incite others, your speech will be checked. The right to free speech is not unlimited.

And for the 47th time, she's not in trouble for her thoughts. She's in trouble for her actions.

a reply to: gladtobehere

You missed the point.

Holocaust denial is illegal in Germany.

She is a holocaust denier, and - according to the article - a vocal and repetitive one.

All she has to do, in order to not be imprisoned, is keep her rather stupid vile and bigoted views to herself.

If, by the age of 87, she is incapable of learning that lesson, and insists on breaking the law, then its her own fault when the law acts.

Stupid gets what stupid deserves.

a reply to: SeaWorthy
I advice you to read our laws before you get into a discussion with me on them. And then lookup some definitions.

a reply to: gladtobehere

What do US laws have to do with German laws? Nothing! Their country, their rules. This little old 'lady' wasn't just making a statement, she knows exactly what she was doing as she's done it before. She was denying the Holocaust which is illegal in Germany.

From OP source:

Judge Björn Jönsson struggled to maintain his temper with the elderly Nazi after she said she shouldn't be punished for the crime again as she had already been fined twice and given a suspended sentence for previous Holocaust denials.

a reply to: verschickter

I watched a movie about a daughter of a commandant of a concentration movie and her travels with her siblings across Germany (It may have been called Lotte) just after the war and it showed how the Allied troops put films on to show what the nazis did.
It must have been horrid for the people who thought they were doing there jobs for the good of Germany and then learning the leaders killed millions.
Just glad you stamp down on those types.

a reply to: Discotech

Learn the difference between voicing a opinion and making a statement. Not everything is covered by "it´s my opinion".
If I tell a polizist that my opinion is, he´s an asshole, it´s the same as saying he´s an asshole. Just because it falls under "opinion" that is covered by free speech, there is a border. And she overstepped that border. And got convicted. As it should be.

Edit: It applies to every other person, not only polizisten

originally posted by: verschickter
I don´t know it these points have been made but:

-it´s 8 months.
-she also said that the eye witnesses are not real and denounced them. Basically stating the eye witnesses lie. I was there personally and I´ve seen the crematories and gas chambers with my own eyes. At the door, the inside was dented and scratched and on the floor, you could see the trails on the tiles. The crematory and gas chambers are a bit away from the housings, now they are hidden behind trees, or at least that was the case around 2002-2004.

To be honest, it serves her right. Is it okay to denounce one of the biggest crimes in the last centuries just because you are old? No!

Been there myself, last year (2015) so my question is, why can I not upload pictures of the place to ATS? no mention of it in the file name, purely DSC whatever number, but doeas not appear in myATS upload folder

Go figure

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: SeaWorthy
I advice you to read our laws before you get into a discussion with me on them. And then lookup some definitions.

I didn't say a thing about your laws.
But you're making it sound like it is still a dictatorship.

a reply to: Discotech

OK, this is easy. Due to the 1st Amendment the US is about the only place on Earth that you can be a total douche and get away with it. The rest of the world isn't like that. Does that clear things up?

Agreed, people shouldn't be imprisoned for such statements, whether or not they are correct. Thought crime is Orwellian.

a reply to: TheKnightofDoom
Regarding to my father and grandfather, they really had no clue. They were located more rural and newspapers were controlled. Radio was controlled. It was the general consens of the population that the jews and other groups were sent out of country.

I could also tell you things how US fighter aircrafts mowed down the brother of my grandfather on a field, two weeks after the war was officially over. The ground troops were relatively friendly to the population and also helped out with food, but collected all weapons, also shovels and pitchforks except for kitchen knifes. My mother was jailed because she sneaked out after 10 o clock to get some yeast over the street and had to spent a night in a open jail cell just with her bed clothes on, in winter. My father, not married to her then, both were young, got shot in the leg because he wanted to bring her something to cover herself up. The jail was in front of our house, we have a old black white picture of it somewhere.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

So people shouldn't be imprisoned for inciting violence and/or riots?

Because it wasn't just a "thought" or her "voicing an opinion".

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: gladtobehere

Because it's illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany. It DOES cause riots and violence.

Yeah because those doing the denying have the ability to control others and make them do things?
BS
Take responsibility for your own actions. One cannot be made to DO anything!

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Willtell
democracy?

Freedom of thought?

She's free to think whatever she pleases. She hasn't been in trouble for what she thinks, but rather what she does about her thoughts.

freedom of speech applies here too.

The moment you make illegal disagreeing with majority culture or some historical concept, then you open the door to the government forbidding other things from being discussed. It's a very dangerous and slippery slope.

Shes at least partially right, nazies used Jews and Rhoma (gypsies) as labor force, well more like slave force, they had to work till they died, apparently there are huge tunnel ways all over Germany and else where, secret facilities underground and other things that were worked with many slaves that died there.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Ok. I'm sorry. I guess the KKK should be allowed to shout nonesense outside the White House and not expect anyone to cause a fight. I mean, free speech and all that.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

I think it was a general problem, not ATS banning any pictures from there. That would need very sophisticated algorithms ATS certainly does not apply to the pictures. I think it was a glitch, maybe try again? If you make that thread, give me a headsup please