Why did Bruce Jenner become a woman???

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: bigtrousers
and why should i care that anyone has decided to dress like the opposite gender?

the world has far bigger problems to worry about than bruce jenner or his deluded daughters.

is that what passes for "reality t.v" in the states these days? is bruce jenner the first man to ever get breast implants? what makes him any different? i owe him nothing, i owe you nothing, you owe me nothing.

respect is earned, bruce has nobodies respect, he is a has been olympian, responsible for the manslaughter of a woman.

he won a gold medal years ago and wants to wear a dress? big deal, why broadcast it to the world? nobody cares.

there are probably millions who do this everyday who dont do it for fame or monetary gain, i support them, not bruce, what is so hard for you to grasp about this concept?

Even TSGs do not respect Bruce. You're missing a vital fence point here if you think people other than MSM actually support Bruce or find him interesting, TSG included.

I've seen Conservative outlets who should KNOW BETTER than to blast his nonsense. The point is obvious, their goal is to bait people into conversations just like this one. Make a non-issue an issue.

Everyone knows that if Bruce wants to pursue his final surgery he will have the means to do so. That is why they focus him for the hype of its auspiciousness. Most TSG are put into positions where the caliber of this choice is life changing and not something to be considered on such a whim. It's offensive and embarrassing some of the comments and actions he puts into the light for the others he represents. Think of Donald Trump for a second, this is why he is not a good point from the start. He doesn't represent even close to the demographic, and the droning media is putting him in the place of every Transgendered person as their 'voice'.

well i think were on the same side of the fence, just i worded it badly i suppose.

my anger is at brucey

originally posted by: bigtrousers
if i somehow managed to find surgeon willing to attach the rear end of a fish to my abdomen instead of legs would you identify me as a merman?

or would i just be a man who had a fish tail sewn onto his lower half?

Find a surgeon. Considering the difficulty to change your gender, support from Doctors is obviously required to be officially recognized.

If you cut it off in your own bathroom, you're a crazy person who needs mental help, and until you find multiple Doctors(including psychologists)willing to put their reputation on the line for Mer-men, won't be a thing.

The difference is several accredited professionals acknowledging it.

Is the man who Tattooed Cheetah Dots all over his body a Cheetah?

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: bigtrousers
if i somehow managed to find surgeon willing to attach the rear end of a fish to my abdomen instead of legs would you identify me as a merman?

or would i just be a man who had a fish tail sewn onto his lower half?

Find a surgeon. Considering the difficulty to change your gender, support from Doctors is obviously required to be officially recognized.

If you cut it off in your own bathroom, you're a crazy person who needs mental help, and until you find multiple Doctors(including psychologists)willing to put their reputation on the line for Mer-men, won't be a thing.

The difference is several accredited professionals acknowledging it.

Is the man who Tattooed Cheetah Dots all over his body a Cheetah?

im sure i could fly out to a 3rd world country and find a gang who remove kidneys to perform the operation in liue of a kidney.

and no, he is a man with tattoos, a homosapien, if we were skin him his innards would show that he is indeed a homospaien male.

originally posted by: bigtrousers

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: bigtrousers
if i somehow managed to find surgeon willing to attach the rear end of a fish to my abdomen instead of legs would you identify me as a merman?

or would i just be a man who had a fish tail sewn onto his lower half?

Find a surgeon. Considering the difficulty to change your gender, support from Doctors is obviously required to be officially recognized.

If you cut it off in your own bathroom, you're a crazy person who needs mental help, and until you find multiple Doctors(including psychologists)willing to put their reputation on the line for Mer-men, won't be a thing.

The difference is several accredited professionals acknowledging it.

Is the man who Tattooed Cheetah Dots all over his body a Cheetah?

im sure i could fly out to a 3rd world country and find a gang who remove kidneys to perform the operation in liue of a kidney.

and no, he is a man with tattoos, a homosapien, if we were skin him his innards would show that he is indeed a homospaien male.

So if a Transgener Male-Female is a man, because biology, does this mean that all Men are Women because, men do not develop sexual organs until 6 weeks, and every fetus is initially female?

Or are you going by Conception? If that's the case, you do realize there is a 6 week period between the transcription and the development, and another length of time before the brains Gender development and physical development? With 3 laps in the process, you believe that it's 100% perfect and no alterations to pregnancy effect this?

One thing to consider is post-pre labor of women is heavily often associated with brain developments. If born too early, a male is likely to have female brain development. If born late, females are more likely to have male brain development. Couple this with morbidity statistics of the USA, and you see it correlates! Because our advanced hospitals save more stressful births from death, the odds of TSG has risen drastically.

originally posted by: bigtrousers
a reply to: Annee

men and women can reproduce, its kinda part of our biology.

And some can't.

"Youngish couple in church, tried for years to get pregnant. Had to use IVF and donated sperm or egg. They are celebrated for bringing life, God's creation into the world"

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigtrousers
a reply to: Annee

men and women can reproduce, its kinda part of our biology.

And some can't.

pedantics, the survival of our species relies upon it.

of course there are exceptions to averages, its why its called an average, the most common denomination. etc.

originally posted by: bigtrousers

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigtrousers
a reply to: Annee

men and women can reproduce, its kinda part of our biology.

And some can't.

pedantics, the survival of our species relies upon it.

of course there are exceptions to averages, its why its called an average, the most common denomination. etc.

And some can't.

"Youngish couple in church, tried for years to get pregnant. Had to use IVF and donated sperm or egg. They are celebrated for bringing life, God's creation into the world"

Besides that, there is nothing wrong with an LGBT person's reproductive systems. They can have sex with the opposite sex and have for generations to produce an offspring.

But, that would be like forcing you to have sex with the same gender. You wouldn't like that.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigtrousers

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigtrousers
a reply to: Annee

men and women can reproduce, its kinda part of our biology.

And some can't.

pedantics, the survival of our species relies upon it.

of course there are exceptions to averages, its why its called an average, the most common denomination. etc.

And some can't.

"Youngish couple in church, tried for years to get pregnant. Had to use IVF and donated sperm or egg. They are celebrated for bringing life, God's creation into the world"

Besides that, there is nothing wrong with an LGBT person's reproductive systems. They can have sex with the opposite sex and have for generations to produce an offspring.

But, that would be like forcing you to have sex with the same gender. You wouldn't like that.

nobody is forcing lgbt community to do anything, if youre lgbt , go hook up with similar minded indivuduals at clubs specified purely for this purpose.

i treat them as equals, it appears you treat them as superiors.

my flatmate hallucinated while high that he was a "hook of velcro" he believed he had lived as a piece of velcro in hi smind in an alternate reality as he put it.

i do not have to respect what his mind tells him if my mind tells me different.

the lgbt community doesnt "need" any spokespeople to tell the rest of the world how they apparently feel.

bruce jenner represents bruce jenner, and he is a man who has breast implants, prove me wrong.

a reply to: bigtrousers

I've said all I'm going to say in this thread.

The ignorance in this thread is unbelievable.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigtrousers

I've said all I'm going to say in this thread.

The ignorance in this thread is unbelievable.

this thread isnt about transgenders, its about bruce jenner, you SJW.

typical, though, an sjw will use anything to insert their ideas onto you.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigtrousers

I've said all I'm going to say in this thread.

The ignorance in this thread is unbelievable.

your ignorance is pretty believable actually, you run away because you cant contest what ive said.

this is a thread about bruce jenner and his motivation for getting implants on his chest.

you think they need standing up for? they dont they can speak for themselves, they dont need SJW's like you hijacking their cause for your own benefit of driving your ego.

originally posted by: bigtrousers

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigtrousers

I've said all I'm going to say in this thread.

The ignorance in this thread is unbelievable.

this thread isnt about transgenders, its about bruce jenner, you SJW.

typical, though, an sjw will use anything to insert their ideas onto you.

The argument behind it is still frail discrimination.

Annee could post 4 pictures of TSG and 1 of a Female and you would be bewildered. If you have to explicitly be told the person is a TSman, to go out of your way to call them a man, that's another thing in itself, no better than randomly calling ugly "maleish" looking women men.

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: bigtrousers

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigtrousers

I've said all I'm going to say in this thread.

The ignorance in this thread is unbelievable.

this thread isnt about transgenders, its about bruce jenner, you SJW.

typical, though, an sjw will use anything to insert their ideas onto you.

The argument behind it is still frail discrimination.

Annee could post 4 pictures of TSG and 1 of a Female and you would be bewildered. If you have to explicitly be told the person is a TSman, to go out of your way to call them a man, that's another thing in itself, no better than randomly calling ugly "maleish" looking women men.

in that case i believe i am the best SAS soldier that has ever lived, because i have full black tactical gear.

i could post 4 pictures of soldiers in tactical gear 3 of them would be real SAS and the 4th wouldnt, you would be hard pressed to tell me which one is NOT SAS.

does that make all of them SAS soldiers based upon purely their appearance?

originally posted by: bigtrousers

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: bigtrousers

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigtrousers

I've said all I'm going to say in this thread.

The ignorance in this thread is unbelievable.

this thread isnt about transgenders, its about bruce jenner, you SJW.

typical, though, an sjw will use anything to insert their ideas onto you.

The argument behind it is still frail discrimination.

Annee could post 4 pictures of TSG and 1 of a Female and you would be bewildered. If you have to explicitly be told the person is a TSman, to go out of your way to call them a man, that's another thing in itself, no better than randomly calling ugly "maleish" looking women men.

in that case i believe i am the best SAS soldier that has ever lived, because i have full black tactical gear.

i could post 4 pictures of soldiers in tactical gear 3 of them would be real SAS and the 4th wouldnt, you would be hard pressed to tell me which one is NOT SAS.

does that make all of them SAS soldiers based upon purely their appearance?

I don't know? Does it? The point is you're a dick if you have to ask before pointing it out.

It's like setting you up for a racial joke then asking what race you are to make sure it fits first.

Only asshole have this type of thinking in the first place.

a reply to: imjack

i dont have to ask, because evolution has done me the favour of giving certain attributes to opposite genders, if you pretend to be a woman and dont tell the men you are flirting with then YOU are the dick.

what about that mans feelings? what if he got back to the trannies house and the ding dong comes out of his dress? he would be well within his rights to go berserk.

do you think a straight female would be attracted to a butch lesbian because they look like a man? the answer is no.


would you be happy being tricked into doing something you are against?

based on instinct , proven by reality.

Sometimes there is so much ignorance (lack of information) and backward attitudes on this topic, it is completely pointless and not worth my time to get involved or to try to bring some actual facts and information to the discussion. Especially when the topic is Caitlyn Jenner that I think for the most part is a controversial and pretty awful person but that's just my opinion that has little value. I've avoided this thread up to now because of her, however.

Talking about transgender issues and trying to explain it to most people is difficult for a variety of reasons. Foremost among them seems to be close-mindedness and unwillingness to learn new things or budge from one's ingrained point of view comprised of simplistic concepts most of us learned early in life that have never been examined in any further detail. Nobody is going to read all of this, I get TL;DR but for those that do want to deny their own ignorance and maybe learn a few things, read on.

First of all, language and the usage of certain terms has evolved which makes it difficult for some to even have this conversation because quite frankly, they haven't kept up or haven't been exposed to the ways these words are used today. Primary to this understanding is that words sex and gender, while often used interchangeably, do not have the same meaning when it comes to discussing the complexities of the human condition. If you're already lost on this concept, there is no sense of reading further.

Sex, ignoring usage of the word referring to the act of, is whether one is male, female or in some cases intersex. Sex is not determined by one single factor alone. There are multiple markers or indicators of sex such as chromosomes (XX, XY), gonads (ovaries or testes), anatomy (penis or vagina), hormones (estrogen or testosterone) and a whole compliment of secondary sexual characteristics such as breasts, facial hair, skin texture, muscle and fat distribution, etc.

Gender, on the other hand, refers to whether one is a man, a woman, a boy or a girl and the traditional qualities of gender we associate with these things are masculinity and femininity. Gender is far more nebulous than sex as most of these categorizations are based on societal or cultural conventions and are subject to change and interpretation so the delineation of gender is less clear than that of sex of being either male or female. Can females not be masculine or manlike? Can males not be feminine. If a male lost his genitals due to an accident, wouldn't we still consider him a man? Clearly we can see that sex and gender have different meanings or that there is a difference.

Certainly, there are biological predispositions to behavior and gender but this doesn't fully explain it. As we develop personality from infancy, one of our core foundations and basis of identity and self is what gender we are. Any child development book will tell you this is something that initially happens between 18 months and three years of age with additional solidifying phases through adolescence. By the age of 4 or 5 though, a person's own internal sense of being a boy or a girl becomes fixed and not really subject to change. I'll ask anyone here that as a 6-year-old, weren't you absolutely sure what you were? Could anything on earth have changed your mind or made you feel differently?

This sense of what gender we are is something that everyone has regardless of whether it is recognized or not. It is the basis of who we are as people to ourselves and how we present ourselves to and are perceived by others. In the case of traditionally transgender people, this internalized sense of being a man, woman, boy or girl doesn't align with their birth sex of being male or female or with all the cultural and societal trappings associated with being male or female.

This misalignment between sex and gender and the distress caused by it is a medically diagnosable condition. Significant scientific evidence and the vast majority thereof points the cause of this being biological, genetic or due to prenatal hormonal influences rather than simply something psychological. Consequently, people can be born with this condition and why we can see even young children that are transgender. I have a bit of personal experience with this.

But, being a girl that knows in their heart and soul they are really a boy or being a boy that knows to the depths of their core that they are really a girl presents some problems; their bodies tell them otherwise and society and their environment tells them otherwise. Many struggle with this their whole life or until it becomes too intolerable of a situation to live with. Many boys live in great shame for these feelings and do everything possible to overcompensate such as joining the military, marrying and starting families or becoming macho Olympic athletes to convince themselves or prove to the world they are really men until one day they realize none of this really represents who they are inside to themselves. Once that switch has been flipped or the realization made it is very difficult if not impossible to think otherwise.

Some, and I'll use the case of Jenner even though I'd rather not, have fought with gender dysphoria, the medical name of this condition for a lifetime by repressing it, denying it and hiding it and trying to fit in. It gets to a point in a person's life though they can no longer live carrying all this around and it must be expressed or life simply isn't worth living. This point can come in childhood, adolescence or adulthood and why we see people transition to live as the opposite gender.

Not all transgender people transition. Some can just live with it but usually lead unhappy and unfulfilled lives. Some are socially motivated to transition - to be seen and be known as the gender they feel themselves to be, often taking hormones or having cosmetic procedures such as breast augmentation or facial feminization surgery to facilitate acceptance in their new gender role as Jenner has done. For most, approximately 2/3rds, this is enough to quell and satisfy their dysphoria and they live their lives as other women do and should be respected as such because it does take a lot of effort, courage, pain and sacrifice to effectively kill who you were to become a more authentic representation of self. (noting that females become men as well).

Although intricately intertwined and complex, social dysphoria is only part of the picture for the remainder of the transgender demographic: The transsexuals or those that actually change their primary sexual characteristics through the reconstructive surgery of their genitals or in lay terms, those that have a sex change operation. All transsexual people fall under the broader transgender umbrella but all transgender people are not transsexual.

Being trans, which is a shortened version meaning transgender or transsexual, is not part of some NWO agenda or illuminati plot. That's comical. It has nothing to do with the de-masculinization of or effiminization of men unless of course you are weak and insecure or have some worry about your own gender? I find the discussion about the media agenda to turn everyone into submissive "beta" males ridiculous but there is no doubt that rigid rules of gender expression have relaxed. So what?

--continued--

--continued from above--

So, if you base your definition of what it means to be a man or to be a woman purely on the basis of if someone is male or female which in itself is based on more than one criteria, your thinking is simplistic and immature or failing to accommodate for the fact that sex and gender are not the same thing.

Finally, what about trans children? Some transition young socially and go on to fully transition medically after they're 18 and live the rest of their lives as just regular people? Are you going to consider someone like this that was never raised as, fit in or was successful as a boy or someone that has never lived as "a man" always a man because they were born with a penis even if they have a fully functional vagina? What if you knew a woman but had absolutely no idea they were born male bodied? Wouldn't they be women to you if that's how they lived their lives in all aspects? Think about that real hard if you're capable.

Sorry for yet another long post. Providing information and perspective on this topic is something I am passionate and well informed about and I feel obligated to share even if it does bore people to death.

originally posted by: bigtrousers
a reply to: imjack

i dont have to ask, because evolution has done me the favour of giving certain attributes to opposite genders, if you pretend to be a woman and dont tell the men you are flirting with then YOU are the dick.

what about that mans feelings? what if he got back to the trannies house and the ding dong comes out of his dress? he would be well within his rights to go berserk.

do you think a straight female would be attracted to a butch lesbian because they look like a man? the answer is no.


would you be happy being tricked into doing something you are against?

based on instinct , proven by reality.

??? My point was what if you can't tell.

If you married someone and they told you they were a man 5 years later and you didn't know, what would you do?

If your answer is along the lines of "well I would know", then the conversation is over because that's easily debatable.

You think I'm a moron that would hire a doctor that doesn't know what a vagina looks like? You literally could look at post-op crotch shots and tell no difference in most cases.

Being angry about them having a dick is small stuff. Trust me they're probably angrier than you they have a dick and most Trans pre-surgery claim to not enjoy sex.

The "crime" you're describbing is almost made up in terms of the circumstances. This rarely happens, when it does its normally funny mistake you tell your friends.

I mean you're basically describing your entire sex life as one-night-stands if this was even remotely a real consistent problem for anyone.

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: bigtrousers
a reply to: imjack

i dont have to ask, because evolution has done me the favour of giving certain attributes to opposite genders, if you pretend to be a woman and dont tell the men you are flirting with then YOU are the dick.

what about that mans feelings? what if he got back to the trannies house and the ding dong comes out of his dress? he would be well within his rights to go berserk.

do you think a straight female would be attracted to a butch lesbian because they look like a man? the answer is no.


would you be happy being tricked into doing something you are against?

based on instinct , proven by reality.

??? My point was what if you can't tell.

If you married someone and they told you they were a man 5 years later and you didn't know, what would you do?

If your answer is along the lines of "well I would know", then the conversation is over because that's easily debatable.

You think I'm a moron that would hire a doctor that doesn't know what a vagina looks like? You literally could look at post-op crotch shots and tell no difference in most cases.

Being angry about them having a dick is small stuff. Trust me they're probably angrier than you they have a dick and most Trans pre-surgery claim to not enjoy sex.

The "crime" you're describbing is almost made up in terms of the circumstances. This rarely happens, when it does its normally funny mistake you tell your friends.

I mean you're basically describing your entire sex life as one-night-stands if this was even remotely a real consistent problem for anyone.

shoulder width, being over 6ft tall, cheekbones, hipbones brow bones the size of their head compared to their shouder width, etc.

if a man with so much obvious surgery done to them approached me i would say , no thank you.

the only real point of intercourse is for reproduction purposes.

a man putting their ding dong up another man wearing a dress is NEVER going to conceive a child.

you need to grow up.

how many straight men would be fooled by bruce jenners fake tits? seriously...LOL