Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is NOT a Hero - Charisma is NOT a Reason to Cheer Death

a reply to: Puppylove

Your last paragraph in the post to which I am responding, is, in my opinion, perfect.

This is the crux of the issue. When continued collapse of society is unacceptable, denying there is a problem is also unacceptable. When the problem reaches to the heart of government and law enforcement, it cannot be solved using those, more traditional means. Denying this prevents any answer being come to, ideal or otherwise.

It is acceptance of the status quo, to fail to see a problem when there is one. This is one of the reasons that those who fail to see a problem with the Iraq War, or for that matter, any military action undertaken by western nations in the last forty years or so, are actually supporting the status quo by keeping their eyes shut, as opposed to being part of any reasonable solution.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
When the problem reaches to the heart of government and law enforcement, it cannot be solved using those, more traditional means. Denying this prevents any answer being come to, ideal or otherwise.

I'm not seeing how police given the power to be judge, jury and executioner on the street helps with the problem of corruption in law enforcement.

There is a small group of Filipinos that do not support the death squads, or as they like to call it "extra-judicial" killings. They realize that at some point ANYONE can be pulled out of their house and killed, as long as there is a "ako si pusher" sign written on them. The problem is, violence by drug users as well as robberies and burglaries and other crimes were out of hand and were shown nightly on the news.

The new death squad's exploits are being covered mostly by independent and external news sources, and the supporters are under the impression that it is all exaggerated due to anti-Duterte sentiment. The Filipinos are a very proud people, and they will staunchly defend their president, even if they don't know, or don't care to know the truth. Tell them that innocents are being killed...it's a lie. Tell them that street children are slaughtered....the drug pushers did it to keep them quiet. Tell them that there have been mis-identified people being killed....Someone made that up. Tell them that extra-judicial killings could target political dissidents next...they don't care.

Now I don't speak for all of the Filipinos, just the few dozen with whom I chat. And I disagree with the majority of them, but they are under the impression that "as long as I'm not doing any drugs I am safe." Sadly, history disagrees with them.

a reply to: daskakik

Well, the trick is to ensure that the only police who have or use this power, are those directly employed to root out the corruption and end it, and that those individuals have been vetted so heavily that they cannot take a dump without some overseer being aware of it, and he himself would have to be similarly watched over, and all the information on these individuals would have to be passed to the person with whom the buck stops, to make triple certain that the officers in that role are not part of the problem.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I don't know if that is even possible when even the average citizen can do the same as long as they hang a "this is a pusher" sign on the corpse.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: intrptr
I know, you just said it.

So are you agreeing or not?

Yes it is. As long as we don't just say stuff, that is.

I linked something, still, ATS isn't what it used to be.

It's OK, I had a hard time accepting it as well. It'll be OK.

I called you out for the same reasons I learned here to call people out when they just say stuff or don't back it up. Lots of people here do that, thats why I like this place. Better than most at figuring out the rocks from the nuggets.

originally posted by: intrptr
I called you out for the same reasons I learned here to call people out when they just say stuff or don't back it up. Lots of people here do that, thats why I like this place. Better than most at figuring out the rocks from the nuggets.

You called me out and I replied I don't care, it's just a conspiracy theory.

I also posted something, although not directly related but, oh well.

Take heed of your own sig, learn to appreciate the rocks.

You called me out and I replied I don't care, it's just a conspiracy theory.

That doesn't mean make stuff up. This is also referred to as an alternative news site. You know, the alternative to mega news corp that always lies.

originally posted by: intrptr
That doesn't mean make stuff up. This is also referred to as an alternative news site. You know, the alternative to mega news corp that always lies.

Seems like you have a problem with someone offering an alternative theory. I don't care what you think I need to offer along with a theory, if you think it is out of line inform the mods.

How about getting back to topic of the thread?

Duterte is not a hero, yeah, I have my suspicions.

a reply to: daskakik

Duterte is not a hero, yeah, I have my suspicions.

Fine, I'll entertain any links to that.

a reply to: intrptr

The link I posted had to do with the guy accepting things like real estate and vehicles. That puts him in my questionable hero list. Entertain it if you want or don't.

"Things are the way they are not the way you perceive them."

Haha duke it out guys

I think that most of us agree there is a problem over there but have different views on the severity and how it should be handled. When I posted this earlier I did out of bias and should have been less heated, I'm still outraged and stand by my opinion though.

A lot of people both locally and internationally applaud him, I think this is puzzling. If many other places did this, it would be used to smear them and maybe even invade. He's getting off quite easy (so far). No one brings that much death and gets away scott free from a lawful and spiritual stand point.

I don't have any solutions other than suggest a more compassionate way of dealing with those he deems offenders. Yes the prison population is over filled, but death blindly implemented on a wide scale cannot be justified by anyone, especially if it's not self defense. Figure another way.

It just rubs me wrong when people glorify his "style" - he's a ruthless dictator.

Never thought we would become so desensitized as a society where it's hip and cool to murder people because you are charismatic. I love vulgarities, I'm quite the potty mouth - doesn't make me cool and certainly doesn't give me cred when I order the murder of people.

I just don't get it. I respect all your opinions even if I don't agree with them all.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: intrptr
"Things are the way they are not the way you perceive them."

Good quote, one problem though. That's still true with whichever side is right, or if it's something else than either side thinks.

In the end it's not really saying much. Reality is what exists after all opinion is removed and all truths and facts revealed.

Sadly none us are omniscient, so your quote has no meaning other that point out that both sides could be wrong. I suppose it could be asking for a bit of humility and willingness to keep an open mind to the other side by accepting possibility of faulty perceptions and opinion, but then I must ask, are you willing to do the same?

I know I've often said, maybe, it seems, possibly, supposedly while dealing with this issue. I've said why things seem to be why they are and asked people to consider things. It's actually very common language for myself to use. I rarely speak in definitives except of a few things I feel exceptionally passionate about, and even many of them I try not to use too many.

I'll give you points for "questionably hero list though", as it does imply you're willing to consider he may be honestly trying. I personally think he's trying in a real #ty situation, but is like all humans faulty. I do however know things are apparently desperate enough there that the people basically made this happen and are asking for it. So I'll entertain the possibility that this is necessary. Why, because no matter how much we would like to believe otherwise, sometimes a situation can only be fixed by extreme measures.

When the people turn and say no more, as I have their back now, I will have their back then. Basically I don't know the absolute truth, I do not have omniscience. Therefore I have chosen to put my faith in the people and as things currently stand they overwhelmingly approve and it is their home, not mine.

I will leave you with one thing though, if the people were pushed so far that an overwhelming majority want this and think it's a good thing. How bad must it have been to push them to this point? With that in mind do you really want to ask them to go back to whatever was so bad this is something to celebrate?

I can ask my domestic helper when she gets here what she thinks about this again.

She can write a response under my name, if people think it's better than 2nd hand.

Bounty hunting is legal there and people just can't kill anyone and say they are a dealer with no questions asked.

And it's odd that some might think the criminals would be saying "oh, we just deal in human trafficking, not drugs!"

"We are just lowly kidnappers, no drugs here!"

originally posted by: Puppylove
Good quote, one problem though. That's still true with whichever side is right, or if it's something else than either side thinks.

True but it is in his sig which is why I mentioned and quoted it.

I'll give you points for "questionably hero list though", as it does imply you're willing to consider he may be honestly trying.

You should take your points back.

When the people turn and say no more, as I have their back now, I will have their back then.

Is it the people actually acting or did they just vote for government to take care of them? Where is that thin red line?

I will leave you with one thing though, if the people were pushed so far that an overwhelming majority want this and think it's a good thing. How bad must it have been to push them to this point? With that in mind do you really want to ask them to go back to whatever was so bad this is something to celebrate?

Living in a country in a similar situation, probably more killing than the Philippines (those lightweights), people pushed don't need to go to the government unless they are not really willing to do what it takes and prefer to get someone else to do the dirty work.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

I think a new deal is in place that your domestic helper might not be aware of.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: burgerbuddy

I think a new deal is in place that your domestic helper might not be aware of.

What's that? I'll ask her, she's here now.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Sanctioning of "extra-judicial" killings.

AKA Drop a card that says this is a pusher and not much, if any, investigation will be carried out.

Ok, she said that the Secretary of their DOJ was focusing on the "extra judicial killings" her name is Senator Leila De Lima.

She was also the Chairperson of congress.

The other senators wondered why and not focused on the victims of drugs. She brought in a lot of paid "witnesses" like that dude in the vid.

They call her the Queen of Drug Lords.

She was kicked out and is now under investigation.

My friend/helper says everyone is still happy with Duterte.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

I don't doubt that there are corrupt politicians or that they are happy with Duterte. That was never my point.

Can you kill someone and place a "this is a pusher" card on them with no repercussions? Honestly, I don't know but it seems like it is in effect.