Enoch Chapter 8

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Can you show proof of this?

And what has just transpired is proof of what happens in threads such as this.



Now, where were we on the topic of the Book of Enoch?

originally posted by: Privy_Princess
Can you show proof of this?

I can show you that we had 177 last year in the Northern Jurisdiction. Ksig is in the Southern which is over twice the size.

Also, 177 candidates of the class of 2015 received the 33° at the Murat Shrine Center. Honored guests from the Southern Jurisdiction, Prince Hall, appendant bodies, and foreign dignitaries took part in the business meetings and festivities as well. Source

edit on 25-9-2016 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

a reply to: Privy_Princess
A large percentage if not all of them, but to get the exact number I'll have to wait for my friend to get back from vacation.

Who says that not all of them were excited? There may be a variety of reasons one does not get the 33rd after being invited. Finances. Timing. I had to turn down an invitation because I am not financially stable to spend the money required for that body.

You are grasping at straws and guessing why someone wouldn't go through the 33rd, but again, that's only with the Scottish Rite.

I've done my research and there's nothing misleading about the structure, only what anti-Masons write.

a reply to: KSigMason

But I'm' not an anti-mason. Just because I have criticisms of it doesn't mean I'm against it.

I have a right to state my criticisms of it. And so what if my criticisms are one in the same with most other "anti-masons", as you say?

Shouldn't that fact alone make you wonder? Why do so many people who have done their research come to the same conclusions about freemasonry?

Surely all these people don't have an unfounded vendetta against Freemasonry? We're not just bullies who don't wanna see a group of good guys discuss things with one another, do good works, and have a good time.

No. That's NOT the issue here. At all. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. And I'm not trying to troll.

I stand by what I've typed. And I do believe many honest, hard-working men join freemasonry under the impression that what they are getting into is at it's core, good. And it certainly is designed to seem that way at first. But, just keep rising in those ranks or orders or degrees or whatever you wanna call it, and you will see a shift. A shift in the subject matter, a shift in the mindset of the group, a shift in their convictions and mannerisms. It will happen so slowly that you won't take notice at first. You're not meant to. Whoever created the degree system, however long ago it was, was ingenious. And was no doubt a master of manipulation.

But, alas, me telling you this won't mean anything. You'll just have to find this all out for yourself.

a reply to: Privy_Princess
What facts? Your statements on the structure of Freemasonry is an opinion only, not fact.

Why do so many people who have done their research come to the same conclusions about freemasonry?

Confirmation bias?

Surely all these people don't have an unfounded vendetta against Freemasonry?

Anti-Masons sure have an ax to grind.

I stand by what I've typed. And I do believe many honest, hard-working men join freemasonry under the impression that what they are getting into is at it's core, good. And it certainly is designed to seem that way at first. But, just keep rising in those ranks or orders or degrees or whatever you wanna call it, and you will see a shift.

This is your opinion only. As I've climbed through Freemasonry I've seen no shift away from the good.

Whoever created the degree system, however long ago it was, was ingenious. And was no doubt a master of manipulation.

So you say.

a reply to: Privy_Princess

To cut to the chase Princess
I was similar to you and was of the opinion the Masons were deluded or corrupt
That there must be a reason for the worlds ills
Illuminati are to blame ... I concluded
But on going to source ... I found the only solid proof of the Illuminati's existence was with their founder
Adam Weishaupt / Bavarian Illuminati
Adam was a Mason before founding the Illuminati
You can study his words and glean his philosophy straight from the Horses Mouth so to speak
I challenge you to do so and find anything that is not pro the Human Race as a whole

You suggest I do my own research ... I did that years ago
If you are looking for someone to blame ... look in the mirror

Be honest with your self ... What do you have any hard proof of
Do you understand what Proof means in regard to evidence?

Here is a link to the writings and correspondence of Adam Weishaupt that are in the public domain


michelduchaine.com... 09/12/writings-and-correspondence-of-adam-weishaupt-and-the-bavarian-illuminati/

a reply to: Privy_Princess
Answer this: what do you believe is "high levels" of Freemasonry?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There is no worship in Lodge.

There isn't a Bible in your lodge? Your Lodge doesn't pray?

Ours here must be a different type of Lodge then.

a reply to: Privy_Princess

you don't understand. it's OK. Unless you were a mason, you wouldn't. But see, now you just make up stuff to fill the gaps you have in knowledge. That is a problem.

My level is irrelevant, just as all the other masons here, and elsewhere are not interested in the slightest what "level" anybody is. We only care that they are masons or not.

Your bedroom is a mess, and you are really bad at housekeeping. If you ever want to get out of your parents home, you will need to get better at that.

The above is an example to show you how silly your argument is. Now I am likely right, based on the way you write, but I have no way of knowing that, as I don't live in your house, nor have I ever met you. So I have no knowledge of you or how you clean up after yourself. And making statements about it with authority is wrong. Because I just don't know.

In the end, you can believe whatever you want, we will still be just fine and we will still know what we know. I have found that it's much more profitable to ask questions and LISTEN to the answers when trying to learn new things. If I shout at the instructor and tell him what I think of the topic without paying any attention to him, It's likely I won't learn a thing.

now go clean your room.

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There is no worship in Lodge.

There isn't a Bible in your lodge? Your Lodge doesn't pray?

Ours here must be a different type of Lodge then.

there is a Bible and possible other religious texts in place. And we say an opening and closing prayer, and depending on the event, may have prayers in the degree. But we don't worship like a church. Just as you aren't worshiping your dinner when you say grace.

Enoch is a cool read. The Fallen seems to be talked about in many books and the Books of Enoch just confirm other esoteric texts.

The Freemasons I know do have secrets.. I specifically contacted my local lodge and became friends with a Master Mason. He admitted a few things and one of them was you have to believe in a higher power. When asked if they accepted Muslims he quickly replied, "No".

When inside the Lodge I was able to visit their library and took notice of the HUGE Bible.... he admitted they prayed and looked out for one another. He was aware of accusations made by the public however he never denied the allegations about secrecy. He has a book he carries with him with secret codes. He wouldn't let me touch it... just showed it to me.

a reply to: network dude

I obviously wouldn't talk to my dinner don't really see that as a good analogy. When praying I don't consider it worship but it does go hand in hand. Most Masons aren't going to pray and read from a Bible IF they don't go to church to worship a higher power. If they don't have a place of worship then the lodge would then be considered such a place.

a reply to: MamaJ
The Lodge is not a place of worship nor is it meant to ever be one.

originally posted by: Darkmadness
What's your opinion?

It's the same old problem of labeling things a "conspiracy" when they're really not much more than members of a skilled profession keeping technical things secret among themselves to protect their jobs. Yeah, you could call the secret "17 herbs and spices" recipe a conspiracy among Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise owners.

But rather than angels or demons, you know how people learned how to study the stars and build huge buildings? A lot of hard work and brainpower. Of course you would make up stories about how it was all a supernatural secret. It's valuable information.

However, I wonder if the names given the angels such as "Tamiel," was actually an anagram or code name for some lost genius who actually did figure that stuff out. "TAM," after all, means "sun" in Babylonian. So the first known human astronomer was named "Tam," perhaps. "Tom Ayel."

a reply to: MamaJ

OH, and Muslims can be masons and are masons. Even if a mason you know says different.

If the individual's faith allows for such affiliations. Like the Catholic Church. I am a mason, was raised Catholic, and am likely no longer considered a catholic by the church. (or by myself based on what I believe) but the detractions don't come from masonry, they come from the church.

A better analogy for the praying might be a High School football game in the south. We still say a prayer to keep the players safe before a game. It's not worship, just a prayer.

a reply to: network dude

Do you have Muslims in your Lodge? Actually how many can you say you know that are a Freemason? I know of none. Maybe this is because I am in Nashville, TN. but I am curious as to how many you know who are Freemasons.

I hear you saying the Lodge isn't a place of Worship but the ones here I have visited do seem like a church/cult (of men only). Many denominations of Christianity in these Lodge's but they are all Christians ( ones I know) .

a reply to: MamaJ
I know some Muslims who are Masons. I also know Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, deists, and theists that are Masons.

originally posted by: MamaJ
There isn't a Bible in your lodge?

There is, plus other books.

Your Lodge doesn't pray?

We have a generic opening and closing invocation. That is not worship.

a reply to: MamaJ

I don't know of any personally, but I do know of some from reading and talking to other people. Lodges are made up of local people. So you are likely to see a subset of your community in the lodge. If you went to West Orange NJ for example, you may find the members largely reptilian, but then NJ is kind of an anomaly.