Enoch Chapter 8

I find this book of Enoch to be incredible. I mean it's written right there for you. I don't know what to make of it.

1. Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and of all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.

2. Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.

3. Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots:

4. Armers taught the solution of sorcery;

5. Barkayal taught the observers of the stars;

6. Akibeel taught signs;

7. Tamiel taught astronomy;

8. And Asaradel taught the motion of the moon.

9. And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.

Book of Enoch

So.... the observers of the stars???

The solution of sorcery??

The first thing I thought of was the secret societies. Then I thought of the colleges and universities the rich send their children to way back when. I also think of the 3 magi in the new testament and Nostradamus, Daniel and other written about prophetic type charachters in a diverse range of cultures and religions.

Makes me wonder about Freemasonry deep in it's origins.

What's your opinion?

originally posted by: Darkmadness
Makes me wonder about Freemasonry deep in it's origins.

What 'deep origins' are you wondering about?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Tubal Cain??

Genesis 4:22 says that Tubal-cain was the "forger of all instruments of bronze and iron" (ESV) or an "instructor of every artificer in brass and iron"

Master of the craft???

Where would his information have come from???

a reply to: Darkmadness

Tubalcain is not considered the 'master of the craft'. If anyone it would be King Solomon or Hiram Abiff but they are all more mythological than historical. The real Masters of the Craft were most likely some nameless stonemasons from the Middle Ages whose desire to start a guild eventually morphed into modern Masonry.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

But he's very important in Masonry isn't he??

A mentor perhaps... ? Lucifer ?

originally posted by: Darkmadness
But he's very important in Masonry isn't he??

Not particularly, the other two are much more important. He only has one mention and it is rather brief.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I just think it's funny it's mentioned in Masonry and in the bible.

Just a coincidence probably.

a reply to: Darkmadness

Why is it funny? The mythology part is taken from the Bible. The historical part lies elsewhere.

You can interpret the book any way you like but doesn't mean it's 100% true,, that said it's interesting... I've still to get through it.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Can I ask what level you are Augustus? Hope that is not inappropriate.

What about Nimrod? I have heard he is held in high esteem.[

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The real Masters of the Craft were most likely some nameless stonemasons from the Middle Ages whose desire to start a guild eventually morphed into modern Masonry.

So, the Antediluvian Pillars will forever remain a myth in your mind?

a reply to: DarkvsLight29

It has nothing to do with interpretation. Masonry was not founded by either Tubalcain, Hiram Abiff or King Solomon nor can it be established if any of those people were even real.

originally posted by: eisegesis
So, the Antediluvian Pillars will forever remain a myth in your mind?

Pretty much since I do not believe in the flood myth as well.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: DarkvsLight29

It has nothing to do with interpretation. Masonry was not founded by either Tubalcain, Hiram Abiff or King Solomon nor can it be established if any of those people were even real.

My grandad was a mason, he told me (when young) that most of what you can read about Enoch and dead sea scrolls are just a glimpse of what really goes on in secret societies/human history and Elite etc.

As i said i'm still reading through it to make my own decision about it.

originally posted by: stosh64
Can I ask what level you are Augustus?

The whole level thing is irrelevant. I am a 3rd Degree Master Mason and in the Scottish Rite.

What about Nimrod? I have heard he is held in high esteem.

Not even a mention.

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29
My grandad was a mason, he told me (when young) that most of what you can read about Enoch and dead sea scrolls are just a glimpse of what really goes on in secret societies/human history and Elite etc.

There is nothing about Enoch or the Dead Sea Scrolls in Masonry.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29
My grandad was a mason, he told me (when young) that most of what you can read about Enoch and dead sea scrolls are just a glimpse of what really goes on in secret societies/human history and Elite etc.

There is nothing about Enoch or the Dead Sea Scrolls in Masonry.

Yeah Masonry is stone work etc, thought that's what You were on about?

Think i missed the point? my bad, thought your on about the secret society of masons etc.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thanks.

You must go crazy with all the conspiracies related to your craft.

To be honest I have no clue and I lose no sleep over it.

Peace to you sir

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29
Yeah Masonry is stone work etc, thought that's what You were on about?

Operative Masonry was about stone work, Speculative Masonry is about charity, brotherly love and truth (among other things) taught using allegorical symbols and stories incorporating geometry and tools employed by stonemasons.