Symbolic Lunacy

I've noticed an odd propensity to take symbols, objects and ideas and letting their meanings be redefined by association with what only a select few use the symbol for, usually out of some bizarre fear of association, due to some attempt at vilification. Really though when you think about it, it's absurd.

Here's some possible examples we'll use White Nationalism as the token example as it's making all the news. I will be making I statements, but this is in satire, a parody of sorts, the kind of thing you might find in the onion. I myself am not a white nationalist so let's make that perfectly clear. I do notice that some groups seem to not understand that concept. Please don't take these I statement as me calling myself a white nationalist I'm only ROLE PLAYING ONE. So ok hopefully that's clear enough. Now for a list of I statements.

I'm a white nationalist and I have used the Pepe the frog meme.

I'm a white nationalist and I proudly wave the US flag and believe in my country.

I'm a white nationalist and I drive a Ford Bronco I think it's a great vehicle I recommend it to all my white nationalist friends.

I'm a white nationalist, I love oranges, many of my white nationalist friends agree. Oranges are clearly the superior fruit.

I'm a white nationalist, and I prefer sandal wood over any other wood, many of my white nationalist friends agree. We build most of our homes and furniture out of sandal wood.

I'm a white nationalist, and I support the confederate flag, so do many of my white nationalist friends.

I'm a white nationalist, and think a nice clean military cut is the way to go, so do many of my white nationalist friends.

I'm a white nationalist, and I support Donald Trumps immigration policies.

I'm a white nationalist, and I support the black mans right to promote a black culture and community.

I'm a white nationalist, I and my friends prefer X-Box over PlayStation, so do all my white nationalist friends. We get together and play online having a strong online presence there.

I'm a white nationalist, and I love hamburgers, my white nationalist friends will be having a barb e cue this weekend.

I'm a white nationalist, and I love the color blue.

I'm a white nationalist, and I love the Dallas Cowboys.

I'm a white nationalist, and I think Mario is a better character than Sonic the Hedgehog.

I'm a white nationalist, and I prefer the Witcher over Dragon Age.

I'm a white nationalist, and I love going to the movies.

I'm a white nationalist, and I enjoy a romantic relationship.

I'm a white nationalist, and I love my mother and father.

I'm a white nationalist, and I have donated time and money into helping rebuild the infrastructure of my community.

I'm a white nationalist, and I have served and fought to defend my country as a soldier.

I'm a white nationalist, and I am a surgeon who has saved many lives in the pursuit of my career.

I'm a white nationalist, and I love the Beatles.

I'm a white nationalist, and I....

I can keep going on forever, and I can replace white nationalist with pretty much anyone else.

I'm a supporter of Hillary and I love oranges, many of my fellow Hillary supporters love oranges as well. Oranges are clearly the superior fruit.

If you really want you can find common ground and associate anybody with anybody else. We're all people. Just because someone who supports something bad makes use of something, or does something it does not make that thing necessarily bad. If I were a white nationalist, and also a doctor and I saved the life of a black man while doing my job, is it suddenly bad because a white nationalist does it? Are doctors bad because some are white nationalists? Are Hillary supporters White nationalists since there are doctors who are also Hillary supporters?

What this all comes down to is this. There's billions of different people on this planet, each of us intersect somewhere, and some of those intersections will be both good and bad. No person is a single belief or idea. If one really wants you can associate anyone with anyone else, it's really easy to do. You can also do the same with policies, ideas, etc. Just because a bad person supports something doesn't make it bad, because even the worst person has things they support that not only aren't bad, are possibly good, and you too may also support.

So basically any time you go, "OMG a _____ endorsed this symbol, made use of this object, or supports this policy, and I don't want to be associated with that kind of person", you are an idiot. If something is bad, sure it's bad, but it's bad because of what it does, not who supports it or makes use of it. We all breathe air, I'm not going to suddenly stop breathing air because some sick psychopathic rapist somewhere just took a healthy gulp of it.

Division based politics is absurd and limiting a symbol purely by what it means to a few is ridiculous, or defining entire large people by the beliefs of a few of their members moronic.

I've been guilty of it myself, so I'm a hypocrite, it's hard to escape being drawn into the stupidity of it all. But when you really look at it all, it quickly becomes apparent how flimsy such divisions and associations really are. We really are when you really starting looking closely more connected than we realize.

If being associated with something associated with someone who holds a negative belief is bad, then we're all bad, because none of us are free from association with everyone else on this planet.

So in the end, if you really have a problem with a policy or idea argue that policy and idea and leave the identity politics at home, it serves no one. Oh and before defining a symbol or object by the the beliefs of one persons using it, take half a second to consider whether or not others with different beliefs are using the same symbol in different ways as well. Just because you don't like the first persons beliefs or use of that symbol does not nullify everybody else or making them guilty of that first persons beliefs by association.

I solute the US Flag, so do many others, many I disagree with, and who disagree with me. The flag is more than any one persons beliefs of it. This is true for pretty much every symbol.

I may have accidentally posted this in the wrong forum, but to be honest, I wasn't very certain where this should be posted...

a reply to: Puppylove

Thank you for a well-presented logical perspective to the idea I have been (clumsily) trying to get across for a long time now.

This idea of affiliation by association has come to fruition this election cycle, and it seems that's all either side can use.

I have a feeling I will be posting more in this thread, but I am out of pocket at the moment. I just wanted to say good show!

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I doubt it, seems to me like it's going to be one of those threads avoided like the plague in hopes it will disappear into the void so that others don't catch on.

a reply to: Puppylove

Well, you had to expect it to some degree. You just logically demolished the arguments that the Clinton supporters base their entire world view on, and most other people just want to have the election and get on with life.

Sooner or later, someone will get triggered enough to post something illogical in here and things will take off. In that hope, here's a bump for you.

TheRedneck

I am a white nationalist, and I think the OP is spot on!

S&F

a reply to: Puppylove

Those that ignore a rational essay, are they really people you want to debate?

I liked this and wanted to post so I can bookmark this thread for use later. (Properly referenced and attributed, of course)

a reply to: Puppylove

Absolutely lovely OP.

I adore symbolism, all forms, from the Esoteric to the Mundane.

I have experienced many occasions where my flagrant use of certain symbols on t-shirts has led me to interesting discussions and also, very heartbreaking ones where the nature of my character was overshadowed by the associations the viewer had preformed by negative writings in regard to it's meaning, allusions and affiliation.

I have not, and will not judge another person by a symbol, unless that symbol is corresponded by a direct witness of uncivil or deplorable action. Anyone can wear a label or visual association, but it remains what actions are performed while bearing the flag of such symbol that largely defines the overall view of said employment.

Moreover, many like me use such visuals as a personal reminder of something that may not be in line with the mainstream rote association of negative press, and because of such, many others are vigilant in defending their perspective and usage of controversial symbols as a matter of course in the right of free expression.

It's better to ask than assume.

Of course, being civil and respectful while doing so is just general decency.

Pepe the frog is not exclusively used by "alt-right whateverhave yous" and lumping the majority of goofy kids on the internet with such an association is simply rude and shame on whomever came up with that nonsense.

While I am not a fan of Pepe, as I am a Connoisseur of only the Dankest of Memes....a private collector if you will, I fully understand that such a remarkably silly creature would have some overuse and fascination with certain mentalities, but I am not one to judge for as I said before, my Memes are....in my opinion....are more refined.

Symbols are wonderful things, a shame so many see only horrible things in this world.

Fear and suspicion is infectious.

Why they continue to propagate such nonsense is a mystery to me.