The Myth That Success Is Unearned

a reply to: JDeLattre89

I agree. Today we are all given an education and this allows many to start out at the same level upon graduation. There were those who pushed themselves in sports to receive scholarships to go on to college, and other who got them by becoming valedictorians.

I have watched football players who were nothing and made it big and went to college, then went pro NFL or AFL, made millions and then later just didn't take it any further. OJ comes to mind on that one. I bet a few more could be found. Why because they were given to much freely and riches that come free take flight just as fast.

But people who work really hard can be successful without ever becoming part of the elite class.

I may not be rich but my life is successful. I have a marriage for over 18 years already and going strong. Why? I and my wife work hard at it.

I have three great kids even though one in disabled. My eldest had a problem and I found her crying, upon coming in and holding her, I let her cry herself out, and I learned of her situation gave advice and prayed over it with her. Not even one hour later the problem was solved an all was better. That is success that wealth could never buy.

Like many have already said success is not measured in dollars alone.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SprocketUK

I already have a provable concept both by an actual prototype and scientific fact in the form of an product description.

How do you keep someone who views crowd funding from stealing the idea?

There are ways to prove your copyright. Send one by courier to your lawyer to keep. That will prove you built it by a certain date, the rest would be some form of patent protection which is costly.

Every single piece of currency is another persons debt... success isn't hoarding other peoples debt it's how you pay it back to them and that doesn't mean simply money either, in a capitalist society it does everything you can lay eyes on has a value even ideas that have yet to have two feet that it takes hands to build and it's always hungry that's why we have become consumers instead of customers, we are just a glutton of and for resources of all types these days, and it translates into you are only worth what is in your wallet this is pushed to be an incentive for education and this is why a lot of infrastructure falls apart and it seems like there's no good service, because it isn't it takes a village it's it takes money and an education to be somebody and with out that society will deem you useless bottom of the barrel insignificant burden, so here comes the poor service from those that are taught not to take any pride in their work because they are treated as second class citizens.

When you buy something you are paying people wages... you are paying for all the work and effort that brought whatever it is at that moment in the entire chain of production in that transaction. If it is a meal, it's not just a meal... it is the seed suppliers, the farmers, the people that made the equipment to farm the fuel in the tractors the trucks to ship it the people that harvest, the people tat prepare it and the people that stock it, the person that buys it for the restaurant and the one that delivers it there, the owner of the restaurant, the cook the prep cook the waitress, the people that made the plate it goes on and the silverware you will eat it with the table you're sitting at and the chair you never think about any of this in.

It takes a village it takes everyone that has ever lived all the way up to now... so above anyone? Below anyone? Nope it takes all of us. The more we start seeing just how interconnected we all are and the entire world is? The more we will appreciate every single last person that brings us all of these things... and guess what you're one of them and can never be apart from being one of them so appreciate it because it's something to respect and it's global not us here or there or somewhere but the entire world including all of the animals the trees nature itself.

See all of this in action, the entire chain of it? Then ask yourself what success is? We have never failed be proud of that. We have just lost sight of that; and that is what we should be ashamed of.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: luthier

I was more on the lines that it had became more of the norm over the last 50 years. Sorry for not clarifying that.

Yeah its all there is now.


But some of the reason is thinking the market can solve everything.

I am 75 percent libertarian free market supporter, but i recognize some fields its very dangerous to leave to capitalism.

Drug research and healthcare is one. Several massive problems happen, taking advantage of the sick (epi pen), fabricaring your research to justify the money spent on the project or worse put out fake drugs (this happens regularly) to recoup spending on the research, and the research for pandamic one off drugs or limited use like antibiotics gets dumped for more profitable products. I don't know that the gov mandating is good but a non profit requirement would help.

The market success and success in general is a broad term. The question really is are you succeful and a benefit to society. If I make money and am succesful making plastic snakes for chucky cheese, is that person more succeful than a researcher at fermilabs? In terms of social and econmic recognition the answers get hard to defend sometimes (not always).

Integrity, Morality, Prolific, Useful all need to be part of success.

Unfortunately our definition no longer has those things (enters justin Bieber) so you have hard working succeful people working hard on frivolous, useless artifacts or culture for society.

It is a real bummer for those that do work hard trying to do the moral thing for society and are often left behind by bells and whistles mesmerizing an audience.

I am a small business guy. I do fine but there are some real issues with what people are actually succeding at.

a reply to: Peeple

I was pointing out an execption to the rule
True he had a mentor but Leonardo's ideas/inventions are his own

When Education teaches/guides one to think and reason for ones self all is fine
But to merely parrot information is a form of brain washing

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

But that doesn't mean to give equal wages across the board.

Great reply by the way.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I love my work so much I give the sh-t away... wages? It's a great thing to just be apart of all of this and contribute to give something back freely not ask for a single dime nor want one... that's simply living my passion though.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

No but it does mean we should recognize every rung as worth more than barely scraping by or relying on government assistance to pay their bills and feed their children.

The lowest job should give people enough of a living to feel like a human being with some sense of security. We all contribute. Well those who can anyway. The problem once again isn't people having more, it's disrespecting the people at the bottom with too little.

Public education was brought about by the same people types that today want wage equality.

You see many thought if the masses were given free education, rather than having to pay for it as was the norm until free public education came along, that if the poor had the access to education they could become successful. when over the last 100 years that did not work now they are crying for the govt to force equal pay across the board.

The problem is equal pay across the board wont work either just as free public education system didn't work as raising people up. Men are either too greedy, gluttonous or down right lazy, that is the monkey wrench in the wheels of liberal idealism, people.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: JDeLattre89

You have to, you cannot have an infinitely growing wealth gap, at some point you have to reel the line back in some. The line has been cast too far and needs to be brought closer to the middle of the pond. There's only ever so much wealth at any given time, you can't fix the bottom without pulling from somewhere.

I understand what you are saying and your reasoning. However; the way to bring up the bottom is not by demanding that those who already have the wealth give up what they earned for no return. After all, like stated before, money and wealth is just the reflection of value and debt. Therefore, the way for those on the bottom to separate those at the top from the money they have and redistribute it is . . . to show those at the top that you have something of value to them that you are willing to trade for what they have which is of value to you. That is to say, to earn it. The more value that a person offers to whom they are working for, then the more value (typically monetary) they will receive in return. This is a point which can typically be negotiated on as one shows how valuable they are over time. Thus those who work harder are typically rewarded better, unless they do not show that they desire more or are unwilling to put forth more effort.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Then may be you could help me with my project. If you don't want anything back all I need is around $10,000 ad I could start out small and over time be able to do as you do give some away freely and even higher wages to those whom I employ.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Its much more complicated than that Chester. We are talking about massive economic policy changes over that time. Poverty and government malpractice go hand in hand. The worst culprit was the war on poverty and what was done after segregarion with housing authority, districting, etc.

In a sense your right theoretically but there is so much complexity in the topic it really cant be discussed fairly by saying public education is a failure because its public education. It was also purposely made to be separated by neighborhoods.

Equal pay across the board may not make sense but identifying what america considers human rights and protecting those things is important.

Food, Water, medical care, shelter, and education are things the government maybe shouldnt control but clearly regualte enough to prevent manipulating people with those things. If those prices can be regulated to control price guaging and manipulation with over sight it would help keep the prices of necessity from getting over bearing on the poor.

Usimg the cpi to control inflation created a real monetary issue for the poor and lower middle class. Next up is the middle class.

a reply to: Puppylove

It would suffice if the artificial increase in good and products wasn't in the picture.

We were told over a year and half ago that oil prices were artificially kept high by OPEC. We were told over the years the reason food and other commodities went up was do to oil prices. Now Oil dropped and not one commodity came down in price.

Your answer to your dilemma is not equalized pay or higher wages but to get the banking corporation to lower the artificial prices they have created their wealth on.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
a reply to: SprocketUK

When you allow small numbers of people to stash away billions of dollars in trust funds and suchlike it means that there is less liquid money out there in the economy for everyone to chase. At some point, people realise that carrot is getting smaller and further away and they give up reaching for it.

What would have us do? Force people to spend money they earned . . . that doesn't sound right. Not everyone wants to spend their money as they earn it, and some spend it more wisely than others.

And the ones who spend their money most wisely are the ones who tend to become wealthy. And then they become hated for their wisdom.

What a lot of people don't get is that no one really has giant vaults of hoarded wealth like Scrooge McDuck. In order to have money and a continuous flow of it, you have to use the money you have wisely.

For those of us on the bottom, we scramble to get the capital together to break into that tier where wealth can create wealth, so we never really understand this, and it's why when one of us wins the lottery, we often end up squandering that wealth and becoming miserable rather than making it.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

That would partly help, but the ever growing wealth gap is not something that can happen infinitely. When 60 people own over 50% of the worlds wealth I find it ludicrous people can defend it.

a reply to: ketsuko

here here a man without guile.

you didn't just insinuate that we Scots are money hoarders did you, that's racist. I am just kidding.

I am at the point that if I can get some duckets I can create more money and American jobs at the same time.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
a reply to: SprocketUK

When you allow small numbers of people to stash away billions of dollars in trust funds and suchlike it means that there is less liquid money out there in the economy for everyone to chase. At some point, people realise that carrot is getting smaller and further away and they give up reaching for it.

What would have us do? Force people to spend money they earned . . . that doesn't sound right. Not everyone wants to spend their money as they earn it, and some spend it more wisely than others.

And the ones who spend their money most wisely are the ones who tend to become wealthy. And then they become hated for their wisdom.

What a lot of people don't get is that no one really has giant vaults of hoarded wealth like Scrooge McDuck. In order to have money and a continuous flow of it, you have to use the money you have wisely.

For those of us on the bottom, we scramble to get the capital together to break into that tier where wealth can create wealth, so we never really understand this, and it's why when one of us wins the lottery, we often end up squandering that wealth and becoming miserable rather than making it.

How are there families like the Vanderbilts, Rothchilds, Rockefellors, Hiltons, Waltons, etc? Some of those people woukd have trouble spending their cut of their ancestors money.

a reply to: Puppylove

actually the gap between the 1% and the rest has always been there is is not growing it has always been the same.

the only time it was on the lowering was in the 50' and 60's and that came to an end because the Elite didn't want any more to come into their ranks. Funny how rude and self serving movie stars can come in but not the hard working poor who have managed to raise themselves up.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Puppylove

It would suffice if the artificial increase in good and products wasn't in the picture.

We were told over a year and half ago that oil prices were artificially kept high by OPEC. We were told over the years the reason food and other commodities went up was do to oil prices. Now Oil dropped and not one commodity came down in price.

Your answer to your dilemma is not equalized pay or higher wages but to get the banking corporation to lower the artificial prices they have created their wealth on.

Because what we were told was both right and wrong.

Things did get more expensive because of oil, but that wasn't the only reason. Things also got more expensive because of Quantitative Easing which we've gone through multiple rounds of to keep Wall St. propped up and interest rates low. Qualitative Easing is just another way of saying that the mints are printing money with nothing of value to back it.

So where your dollar at the start might have actually been worth $1.00, now after they've injected $1 trillion every year into the economy since with no goods or services of value to back them, that same dollar might only actually be worth $0.75 (guess). And when that happens, there is a lot of cash with no worth backing it, so everything starts to cost more. Every dollar has less buying power.

For the super rich, the only real meaning is that they put their money into Wall St. which is the only way to make wealth, but for the rest of us, we take it in the shorts. Our day to day dollars are worth less so we have to pay more for everything and our savings are crap because there is no return on investment thanks to low interest rates.

But, hey! That economy is crankin'! Look at Wall St.! And that's exactly what they've been telling us for the past eight years. Don't you feel better off?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

That is the crux of it chester. If the market works as it is supposed to, we shouldnt see a wealth distrubution system similar to feudalism.