How do you get to god?

a reply to: makemap

This will be a somewhat longer reply.

Down where the water flows

But here is an artist. He desires to paint you the dreamiest, shadiest, quietest, most enchanting bit of romantic landscape in all the valley of the Saco. What is the chief element he employs? There stand his trees, each with a hollow trunk, as if a hermit and a crucifix were within; and here sleeps his meadow, and there sleep his cattle; and up from yonder cottage goes a sleepy smoke. Deep into distant woodlands winds a mazy way, reaching to overlapping spurs of mountains bathed in their hill-side blue. But though the picture lies thus tranced, and though this pine-tree shakes down its sighs like leaves upon this shepherd's head, yet all were vain, unless the shepherd's eye were fixed upon the magic stream before him.
...
But that same image, we ourselves see in all rivers and oceans. It is the image of the ungraspable phantom of life; and this is the key to it all.
Moby Dick - chapter 1 Loomings

Standing on the front lawn of the home of my first 14 years, on the rare very clear day, when even the Ocean mist 9 miles away was absent, glimpsed between two hills to the West Southwest, was the very slightest strip of Ocean, usually with a sparkle of light reflecting the Sun.

As far as the eye could see, every ravine and gulley was a part of the same watershed that led to the same river, that went to the Ocean. The creeks and streamlets were visible only once the trip was made down the slopes into the overhanging trees and shrubbery and into the shade.

Each small creek had its own unique identity, plants, insects, sometimes in catch ponds, bluegill fish. One very unlikely spot, guppies. Who could have guessed that a stream that's dry most of the year would have a stretch that didn't dry?

One streamlet along the railroad track, when it reached the edge of town, and the track went up and through, it went under. From one end of town to the other, the adventurous and curious could walk, with feet in water, right under all the buildings and traffic.

And some of the ponds along some of the creeks were suitable for swimming in even, sometimes trees to climb and dive from.

a reply to: infolurker

a reply to: DeathSlayer

so muslims and hindus and norse/greek/roman polytheists are completely screwed huh?

as it happens, i feel it may be constructive to define what is meant by the term "god" before deciding the most appropriate way of contacting it or whether it should be contacted at all.

a reply to: TzarChasm

as it happens, i feel it may be constructive to define what is meant by the term "god" before deciding the most appropriate way of contacting it or whether it should be contacted at all.

I think the OP was leaving that definition up to whatever each responder's belief system happens to be. I think another relevant questions would be What's the benefit?

Take a 12 step program for instance. I've never been in one so this is just hearsay.
"Find your higher power", they say. Which simply means, that extra emotional boost to help kick a habit. So a small god to help clear a small hurdle. Probably not seen as small to the person clearing the hurdle, but would certainly seem small to an objective observer.

So some guy's praying for some help and the goddess Springboost gives the guy a boost. Then the guy starts praising some other god who he thinks he's encountered. He runs around telling people "The One and Only God has saved me, and given me eternal life!"

The goddess Springboost is like, "What? I never said that." But nobody hears her.

You don't do anything to get to God, God never left and is always here.

a reply to: infolurker

The truth is that there is only one way for any human being to get to heaven and that is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

False.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: makemap

The truth is that there is only one way for any human being to get to heaven and that is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

James 2:19,20

You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?

John 14:1:

“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me.”

Jesus gives the faithful apostles reason not to be troubled over his departure: “In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. . . . If I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be.” The apostles, however, do not grasp that he is speaking about going to heaven. Thomas asks: “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?”—John 14:2-5.

“I am the way and the truth and the life,” Jesus answers. Only by accepting him and his teachings and imitating his life course can one enter the heavenly house of his Father. Jesus says: “No one comes to the Father except through me.”—John 14:6.

Philip, listening intently, requests: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Philip seems to want some manifestation of God, like the visions that Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah received. However, the apostles have something better than such visions. Jesus highlights that, replying: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.” Jesus perfectly reflects the Father’s personality; hence, living with and observing Jesus is like seeing the Father. Of course, the Father is superior to the Son, for Jesus points out: “The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality.” (John 14:8-10) The apostles can see that Jesus is giving all credit for his teachings to his Father.

Jesus’ apostles have seen him do wonderful works and have heard him proclaim the good news about the Kingdom of God. Now he tells them: “Whoever exercises faith in me will also do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these.” (John 14:12)

Now Jesus states a simple truth: “Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. In turn, whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will clearly show myself to him.” At this the apostle Judas, who is also called Thaddaeus, asks: “Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself clearly to us and not to the world?” Jesus replies: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him . . . Whoever does not love me does not observe my words.” (John 14:21-24)

John 14:31

But for the world to know that I love the Father, I am doing just as the Father has commanded me to do. Get up, let us go from here.

Quoting you again:

If you truly believe and trust this in your heart, receiving Jesus alone as your Savior, declaring, "Jesus is Lord," you will be saved from judgment and spend eternity with God in heaven.

James 2:14:

Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

Note that what is said in Ephesians 2:8-9 does not negate any of the above (and primarily meant for those vulnerable to falling into the trap of performing works to satisfy their self-righteousness and 'to be seen by men', it's been hijacked and twisted by the 'sola fide'-theological movement, 'faith alone'). This guy was involved:

Certainly, the handiest trick of the propagandist is the use of outright lies. Consider, for example, the lies that Martin Luther wrote in 1543 about the Jews in Europe: “They have poisoned wells, made assassinations, kidnaped children . . . They are venomous, bitter, vindictive, tricky serpents, assassins, and children of the devil who sting and work harm.” His exhortation to so-called Christians? “Set fire to their synagogues or schools . . . Their houses [should] also be razed and destroyed.”

Source: The Manipulation of Information: Awake!—2000

By the way, because what Jesus teaches is true and can lead to (everlasting) life when a person "hears these sayings of [Jesus] and does them" (Matthew 7:24); sometimes this concept is also spoken of as (in the bible):

"the way to life" (Proverbs 6:23)
"the way of the truth" (2 Peter 2:2)

And "the way of peace" (imitating the Prince of peace, Jesus, who learned it from his Father, the God of peace).

John 8:25-29:

So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all? 26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment on. As a matter of fact, the One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Jesus then said: “After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 29 And the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.”

Clearly talking about someone else, his Father, "him", "the One who sent me". To me it's also clear that when someone is saying someone else is "with me" in that context, they are talking about someone on their side, primarily figuratively. The Jews he was speaking to didn't get it either that he was talking about his Father.

Jesus does the things pleasing to his Father.

See also John 8:18 and Revelation 1:5: and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,”....

Revelation 3:14,21:

14 “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

21 To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Guess who "the faithful and true witness" is who is quoted all the way to verse 21, someone who is also referred to as "the beginning of the creation by God". Guess your teachers never spoke about those verses. I've certainly never got a logical response to it.

a reply to: infolurker
Note the Trinitarian in the video below saying something about the Greek words that have been rendered in most popular bible translations with some grammatical variant of the verb "believe". It's not entirely accurate but he does give a clue as to why a few translators have chosen to go with "excercise faith" in the appropiate context. It's at 6:20 (I don't recommend the rest of the video, lots of confusing information):

does anyone have a case to make for something other than the abrahamic deity? you know, for a change of venue. i think it would make for an interesting social experiment to defend one of the greek or roman or hindu gods.

There was a tourist in New York City who was lost.
Upon seeing a guy wrangling a large string bass from a taxi by the curb, the tourist thinks, "this guy can probably give me directions to where I want to go."
So the tourist walks over to the musician who is finishing his transaction with the taxi driver and says, "Excuse me but could you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?"
To which the musician responds,

"Practice, practic, practice."



The more time you spend sitting in the dark with your eyes closed and your attention front and center, the more clear everything becomes. Knock and the door shall be opened.

originally posted by: Michielli
There was a tourist in New York City who was lost.
Upon seeing a guy wrangling a large string bass from a taxi by the curb, the tourist thinks, "this guy can probably give me directions to where I want to go."
So the tourist walks over to the musician who is finishing his transaction with the taxi driver and says, "Excuse me but could you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?"
To which the musician responds,

"Practice, practic, practice."



The more time you spend sitting in the dark with your eyes closed and your attention front and center, the more clear everything becomes. Knock and the door shall be opened.

the question is, should the door be opened?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Perhaps a more accurate and honest translation of Isaiah 55:6,7 may provide the missing piece:

American Standard Version
Seek ye Jehovah while he may be found; call ye upon him while he is near:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return unto Jehovah, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Darby Bible Translation
Seek ye Jehovah...

Young's Literal Translation
Seek ye Jehovah,...

Joel 2:32a (NWT)
And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved;

American Standard Version
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered;

Likewise Darby Bible Translation and YLT have "Jehovah" there (Darby has "saved" at the end). This is what both Paul and Peter are quoting and referring to at Acts 2:16, 21 (NWT) and Romans 10:13 (NWT):

16 On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel:
...
21 And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”’

Romans 10:11a, 13

11 For the scripture says:...
For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”

If you check out the Darby Bible Translation, the ASV and YLT for those verses you will see that they seem to imply or suggest that Paul and Peter were misquoting Joël, seeing that they decided to go with the Greek manuscripts that use the Greek word for "lord", conveniently ignoring all the evidence that God's name was replaced in those manuscripts, including the evidence from the bible itself seeing that Joël never used the Hebrew word for "lord" (there is no "adonai" in Joel 2:32a, "adonai" doesn't even look remotely close to God's name in Hebrew characters, and it's also not an alternate rendering or translation, "adonai" already means "lord"). Pfff, as if Paul and Peter would (intentionally?) misquote Joël on such a crucial matter. Pardon the inaccurate title below:

Regarding the topic of prayer that came up, the video above has some advice from Jesus regarding that topic as well. Do you feel, as many do, that you get no answer to your prayers? Then seek and you shall find (which in this case requires clicking as a first step in any genuine search). A small sample:

Jas. 1:6, 7: “Let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah.”

So perhaps before asking for evidence to remove your doubt, try searching for it first, unbiased (thinking about the one you were responding to when I said "your", also in general for everyone with the same or similar experiences).

a reply to: TzarChasm

Funny isn't it? How at the end of the day, the only way for God to reveal himself to you is after you take all these steps to brainwash yourself. Pray pray pray, meditate meditate meditate, have faith and know he is real.. blah blah. He will reveal himself in his own time- but keep at it and when the time comes, you will know. Because you will have finally fooled yourself.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

everyone is welcome to their opinions.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Indeed.

However, not all opinions are facts.

a reply to: whereislogic
The video about "KJV Only Rage" does have a nice example at the end of those who are not walking in the way of peace though.

From Matthew again (Jesus teaching):

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him by his fine conduct demonstrate works performed with a mildness that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy+ and contentiousness*+ in your hearts, do not be bragging+ and lying against the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above; it is earthly,+ animalistic, demonic. 16 For wherever there are jealousy and contentiousness,* there will also be disorder and every vile thing.+

17 But the wisdom from above is first of all pure,+ then peaceable,+ reasonable,+ ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits,+ impartial,+ not hypocritical.+ 18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness is sown in peaceful conditions+ for* those who are making peace.

Luke 10:6:
6 And if a friend of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him. But if there is not, it will return to you.

Some people prefer to seek confrontation and strife rather than make peace and being reasonable about these subjects. Here's an example of that:

STRIFE

Wrangling, quarreling, contending with another because of enmity. One Hebrew verb rendered “engage in strife” is also rendered “stir up” and “excite oneself.” Among the causes for strife alluded to in the Scriptures are hatred (Pr 10:12), rage (Pr 15:18; 29:22), intrigues (Pr 16:28), ridicule (Pr 22:10), heavy drinking (Pr 23:29, 30), slander (Pr 26:20), arrogance or pride, and lack of right teaching (Pr 28:25; 1Ti 6:3, 4). Strife destroys peace and happiness. Its unpleasant and repelling effect on other persons is repeatedly highlighted in the book of Proverbs. (Pr 19:13; 21:9, 19; 25:24; 27:15) Contentions between those who at one time enjoyed a brotherly relationship may present an almost insurmountable barrier to reconciliation. “A brother who is transgressed against is more than a strong town; and there are contentions that are like the bar of a dwelling tower.”—Pr 18:19.

As one of the works of the flesh that is hated by Jehovah (Ga 5:19, 20; compare Pr 6:19; Ro 1:28, 29, 32; Jas 3:14-16), strife or contention has no place in the Christian congregation. (Ro 13:13; 1Co 3:3; 2Co 12:20; Php 2:3; Tit 3:9) One of the qualifications for a Christian overseer is that he be a nonbelligerent man. (1Ti 3:1, 3) Therefore, persons persisting in contention or strife are among those to receive God’s adverse judgment.—Ro 2:6, 8.

In the first century C.E., the apostle Paul had to contend with persons who were given to strife. Some were declaring the good news out of contentiousness, probably with a view to making themselves prominent and undermining Paul’s authority and influence. But Paul did not permit this to take away his joy in seeing that Christ was being publicized.—Php 1:15-18.

Source: Strife: Insight, Volume 2
This was the song they were singing (singing is not chanting btw), the video above only shows the chorus:

a reply to: whereislogic

Ok seek Jehova, that's fine
It's Old Testament, I am not a Jew, my point was if you want God you need to seek after him.

I am not a Catholic so your comment on Catholicism is invalid

I am a Christian, Jesus healed the sick, calmed the storm, awoke a dead girl, cast out demons as well as forgave sins
You work it out...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: whereislogicI am a Christian, Jesus healed the sick, calmed the storm, awoke a dead girl, cast out demons as well as forgave sins

Paul did the same. Paul healed people, some even took cloths from him and people were said to be healed when they were placed on him, He cast out a devil in a girl who was possessed by a familiar spirit. A young man who fell from the third floor and died was raised by Paul also. Paul also taught that we could have forgiveness of sins via the cross of Christ, so Jesus was still forgiving men after he had ascended. It is because those signs were to accompany a true man sent of God.

Seek Jesus, wise men still seek him today.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I did none of that.
I got very very high and she popped in to give me a love.j

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I did none of that.
I got very very high and she popped in to give me a love.

originally posted by: makemap
So how do you really get to god?

The assumption is that there is anything besides God!
God is this that is actually happening.
God is what there is - there is no other!

However - there is a belief that there is a 'you' existing as some thing separate from what is happening.