Mr Trump, I am not seeing 222 trillion worth of ideas from you.

originally posted by: Orionx2

You are delusional I f you think anyone could fix the mess. There will be a tipping point eventually and society will go through a hard reset again. Well assuming natural causes don't step in first....

I think it is odd you are singling out Trump. Hillary wants to set the stage so her daughter will be President of the world. We will all be living off rations and be thankful to get them if the dems get their ways.

I guess that means the turn has come for the full disclosure of my ... "delusion".
I have been a conspiracy thinker since the 70's when the space shuttle was redesigned in committee to be half as big, and instead of the fuel being in the wings (100% reusable), it now had an external tank. This allowed the project to be in two different senators districts, and lead to catastrophic loss of life later; resulting in the end of the program.

I will now confess some of my sins from 9/11


This is what I remember



1993
A Muslim cleric was put on trial for the twin towers bombing. I don't know if anyone remembers this or not. But they parked a van full of explosives in the basement in the south west corner. Being a bit of an armature architect I analyzed the placement. My conclusion was this. The plan was to cause the tower to fall across New York city leaving a massive footprint of destruction. One as long as the tower was tall.




The van was parked in that one particular corner of the basement on purpose. The plan was to take out that corner and cause the towers to fall in a south west direction rather like felling a tree. Maybe even aiming for some other building to drop the towers on.







So... just what was south west of the towers?

World Financial Center, is a shopping center and office-building complex located across West Street from the World Trade Center site in the Battery Park City neighborhood of Manhattan, New York City. Overlooking the Hudson River, Brookfield Place has been home to offices of various companies including Merrill Lynch, RBC Capital Markets, Nomura Group, American Express and Brookfield Asset Management, among others.

Osama said "It is important to concentrate on the destruction of the American economy" and this looked like the plan to me.









2001
Baton Rouge, La
Years later we come to September the eleventh two thousand and one. I'm sleeping on the couch and my roommate comes in waking me up all excited. "Wake up! We're under attack! I've got food." I look, and he has two huge bags of take out food from the restaurant he works at. He sets down the bags as I turn on the TV. One tower is on fire.

He further says "Man, there are cops everywhere downtown like someone stirred up a hornets nest." We are living Downtown Baton Rouge. He says "We had just finished cooking everything for lunch when the boss comes in and says 'I'm not about gettin killed over some food, shut it down!' And he let everyone off."








So I watch, live, as the second plane hits.

Here is my first thought.


"Looks like they are failing to knock the towers over again. See how the one plane came in from a direction where if the tower struck were knocked over it would leave a huge path of destruction in one direction, and the second plane came in from the other direction to knock that tower into it's own path of destruction.

I think the second plane hit higher up cause the pilot saw that the first tower hadn't fallen over."

My roommate just says "Hmm."

Then... when a tower falls I immediately think this.

"That's a controlled demolition. Pretty smart. Letting either tower just fall over would be much worse. Someone did the same analysis on the basement bomb as I did. Too bad no one can ever take credit for it. People would crucify them."


Then he says to me something I'll never forget. He's passed away last year, so I guess I can tell this part now. He says "Wana know how you can get killed. Go to Times Square, unfurl a confederate battle flag, and say ... 'That's what you Yankee's get.' "

I'll admit it. I almost laughed.



And that's it.

For a decade after that have watched America go insane about the issue, seeing dark conspiracies in everything and everyone. Even close friends breathing fire at me when I try to bring up the subject and add in the missing historical context of the previous attempt."

After lurking on the 9/11 forums here for a month back in 2007 I decided that, it was far to volatile a subject, and too many people had too much personally invested in their own theories to consider my version.

My only hope now is that the subject, and 15 year indiction, has cooled off, maybe at least one other person will consider my impression of the matter.

The End
Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: jjkenobi
After Obama's 8 years of destruction it's too late for USA to come back from financial ruin. It's only a matter of how quickly the policies get us to rock bottom. Obama = fast track. Hillary = fast track. Bernie = immediate track. Trump = slower track.

Oh... someone is making money off of this car wreck they call an economy.

It just isn't us.

More than $1 trillion has been spent on domestic counterterrorism efforts since al-Qaida hijackers turned passenger planes into guided missiles 15 years ago. Trillions more have gone toward other intelligence and military spending to wage the War on Terror overseas.

allgov.com / fearful Americans

Trump is not pandering to fear.

I don't think he has Trillion dollar Ideas, yet, but the first rule of any survival situation is "maintain a positive mental attitude."


Mike Grouchy

Here are some of the Ideas that Trump has put forward already.

PROPOSAL: Immediately after taking office, Mr. Trump will ask the generals to present a plan within 30 days to defeat and destroy ISIS.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will ask Congress to fully eliminate the defense sequester and will submit a new budget to rebuild our military as soon as he assumes office.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will build an active Army of around 540,000, as the Army’s chief of staff has said he needs.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will build a Marine Corps based on 36 battalions, which the Heritage Foundation notes is the minimum needed to deal with major contingencies.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will build a Navy approaching 350 surface ships and submarines, as recommended by the bipartisan National Defense Panel.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will build an Air Force of at least 1,200 fighter aircraft, which the Heritage Foundation has shown to be needed to execute current missions.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will seek to develop a state of the art missile defense system.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will modernize our nation’s naval cruisers to provide Ballistic Missile Defense capabilities.

PROPOSAL: Mr. Trump will enforce all classification rules, and enforce all laws relating to the handling of classified information.

PROPOSAL: One of Mr. Trump’s first commands after taking office will be asking the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and all relevant federal departments, to conduct a thorough review of United States cyber defenses and identify all vulnerabilities – in our power grid, our communications systems, and all vital infrastructure.

Not quite a Trillion dollars.

Certainly not 222 Trillion worth.


Mike Grouchy

As mentioned above it would take years and the best case scenario to even start paying down the fiscal debt (20 Trillion)

That being said looking at what cause that debt to double in 8 years is a great first step. We can use fuzzy liberal logic and blame it on Bush and the war or we can agree that it was a little bit of that, a little bit of Obamacare, a little bit due to high corporate taxes, massive increase in govt regulations, fed policy, etc.

So we are here with a ton of debt. Last year we had record tax income yet the debt is still growing.

So to address you thread as to what has Trump proposed that could help with our debt situation:

1. Trump is calling for tightened immigration policy and enforcing current laws. Estimate cost to tax payers is over $100 BILLION.

2. Trump is calling for decrease in Corporate Tax rate and removing 100's of government regulations. Considering dozens of top US companies pay no tax at all perhaps lowering the corporate tax rate would repatriate businesses and their tax dollars to the US. Companies like PFizer often look to merge with other companies to countries that have more favorable tax climates like Ireland. With over 20,000 new federal regulations under Obama alone the impact is higher cost for business startup and growth. Regulations get passed down to us as well. Anyone notice the cost of food and how it has increased over the past 8 years? Trumps plan takes the handcuffs off and allows businesses to start and grow and that must happen cause we will never get of debt doing the big government tax and spend approach.

3. Healthcare reform is cost almost everyone. 2-3 Trillion to set it up, Higher premiums for most, even the healthcare companies are loosing money and dropping out of some area's. This one is iffy cause it is not clear what an alternative would be.

4. Trade reform- We are getting creamed with trade. 80% of the non food products we buy in Walmart are made somewhere else mostly China.

So let's put it all together.

Increase business startup and growth by lowering taxes and getting more companies paying into the system and limit govt regulations that further stifle growth.

When businesses grow they need labor and with 94,000,000 out of the work force but many wanting work that would help to get more Americans back to work and paying into the system via tax and consumption and more importantly take them off the government welfare system.

All I know is the alternative is more of the same with Hillary and her increase plan will insure that and probably worse.

originally posted by: sirlancelot

So let's put it all together.

Increase business startup and growth by lowering taxes and getting more companies paying into the system and limit govt regulations that further stifle growth.

When businesses grow they need labor

I knew that talking with Trumps people would be the right move. Hillary's clowns only know how to shame, insinuate, and mischaracterize. The real talk, about who we are and what we can do, is happening in the Trump camp. But I still have one issue.

This is a decent idea/plan. It may even be close to 1 Trillion dollars. But my question is this. Does Mr Trump think that 500 billion is a lot of money? Because that is 20th century thinking. Hell Ben Bernake tossed out 600 billion like it was nothing.


Remember all those banker bail-outs?
Here is a flashback....


===============================================
begin flashback 2009
===============================================

After giving banks Trillions in bailouts, Bernanke started buying State and Municipal bonds, to save small counties from going bankrupt.

All the stimulus money had ben going to banks and large corporations. They refused to spend any of it. Weather to hire new personnel, or even give out a meagre raise. Additionally I find it suspicious that of the Trillion dollars of bailout money, now all of a sudden, this measly 600 billion is going to wreck us. I wonder. Are TPTB worried that Bernanke is calling their bluff.

Here is a quote from February 4th, 2009

Through April 30, the government has made commitments of about $12.2 trillion and spent $2.5 trillion
www.nytimes.com...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9fc591d06122.png[/atsimg]


Here is a graphic of what I'm saying.
Back when the bailouts were, in fact
a percentage of the GDP, the risk
was greater, now that it is small
the roof is gonna fall in ?
This is alarmist
and not very
realistic.

Conclusion

If TEN T R I L L I O N dollars are given out but never spent and just sit in an electronic vault, does that money really devalue the currency? It's not in circulation. It's not being spent. It's not having any effect on the actual supply of money. But now all of a sudden, when a tiny sliver of money is going to be sent to people who can, and will, actually use it, a lot of well financed people are telling us it's the end.


===============================================
end flashback 2009
===============================================

Is Trump a 21st Century man.
Does he have 222 Trillion worth of ideas?
Perhaps his people should look at this ATS Thread: Lockeed Martin: Space Road Truckers


David Grouchy

americas issue at the end of the day comes down to political choices, or actual lack therefore of.
the democrats being a center right party and republicans traditionally of right wing persuasion, both roughly share the same economic ideas, both support private business, both rely on banks etc, etc.
taxes differ a little with republicans favouring the tried and failed methods of flat taxes, and tax cuts for the rich, while democrats seek a little parity by raising taxes a little more for the rich, while leaving loopholes for the rich to avoid actually paying them.

clintons current policy of raising taxes a little relies on an upswing for global markets, its due, however the bankers have returned to tactics that caused the global crash already so relying on that is a little, hopeful.
experts believe a profit of 1.1 trillion, in a best case scenario.
trumps return to reaganomics flat tax leads to a loss of 9.6 trillion in the best case.

with america's current deficit even the democrats best case scenario of a profit hardly makes a dent.

a reply to: stinkelbaum


You forgot to link your Thread


ATS: Trump's link to the nWo


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I agree.

That's one reason why I'm not voting for him. I haven't seen a single plan, but I have seen wildly flip-flopping stances on various issues. I've seen a plan on his website that's countermanded by the words that come out of his mouth.

Gary Johnson and Jill Stein have more issues-based information on what they' d be doing than he does, and they're way behind him in the polls.

You know, I'd like to see him in a 4-way debate with Clinton, Johnson, and Stein. I bet the others could trot out their plans while he flounders and repeats "make America great!" again and again without any clear idea of how he will do it.

(duplicate post removed)

With the current EC system, there's no way Stein or Johnson would carry enough to win. Either is a protest vote, and you know it.

At least Trump is flip-flopping in the right directions....

While I'm not a big Trump fan, the idea of Hillary in the Oval Office is simply unacceptable. Charlie Manson would have my vote before HRC would.

Seems like it may be a moot point though, as HRC's PD has simply gotten too bad to mask anymore. I have no doubt that if she even makes it to the debate, without rescheduling it, etc., at some point, her disorder will simply manifest in a way that finally makes her reveal it publicly.

Mr Trump, I am not seeing 222 trillion worth of ideas from you.

If the Mexicans have enough money to build Trumps wall, another 222 trillion shouldn't be any problem.

a reply to: mikegrouchy


Science and engineering have been responsible for over half of the growth of the U.S. economy since WWII. But some reports question America’s continued leadership in these areas. What policies will best ensure that America remains at the forefront of innovation?

Trump:

"Innovation has always been one of the great by-products of free market systems. Entrepreneurs have always found entries into markets by giving consumers more options for the products they desire. The government should do all it can to reduce barriers to entry into markets and should work at creating a business environment where fair trade is as important as free trade. Similarly, the federal government should encourage innovation in the areas of space exploration and investment in research and development across the broad landscape of academia. Though there are increasing demands to curtail spending and to balance the federal budget, we must make the commitment to invest in science, engineering, healthcare and other areas that will make the lives of Americans better, safer and more prosperous. "

sciencedebate.org

Many more statements like this from trump and other candidates at the link.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: mikegrouchy


Science and engineering have been responsible for over half of the growth of the U.S. economy since WWII. But some reports question America’s continued leadership in these areas. What policies will best ensure that America remains at the forefront of innovation?

Trump:

"Innovation has always been one of the great by-products of free market systems. Entrepreneurs have always found entries into markets by giving consumers more options for the products they desire. The government should do all it can to reduce barriers to entry into markets and should work at creating a business environment where fair trade is as important as free trade. Similarly, the federal government should encourage innovation in the areas of space exploration and investment in research and development across the broad landscape of academia. Though there are increasing demands to curtail spending and to balance the federal budget, we must make the commitment to invest in science, engineering, healthcare and other areas that will make the lives of Americans better, safer and more prosperous. "

sciencedebate.org

Many more statements like this from trump and other candidates at the link.

I would think that having a solid education system would contribute greatly to innovation but continue to pay teachers poorly, attract the unqualified, and make the education environment distasteful for both teachers and students; you wind up with a bunch of dumbass people that are unprepared to compete in a global market.

You get what you pay for!!! It's a matter of priorities....Build that wall!!

Send in the clowns!

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: mikegrouchy



sciencedebate.org

Many more statements like this from trump and other candidates at the link.

LesMisanthrope,

You magnificent literati tyrant, there goes my afternoon, now I have a lot of reading to do.



Thank you and ...




This is for you.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

One can not have an economy based on infinite growth

Yes you can. The assumption that we cannot is based around the idea that civilization is static, or stagnant.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
Economics is pretty simple.

One can not have an economy based on infinite growth
if one cancels the gorram space program.
Being trapped on Earth is only
good for real estate
developers.

Mike Grouchy

Honestly, we're leaving Earth via Dimension and Time Travel far before we ever build any spaceship and fly somewhere in it. Both have much more practicality than something that is considered to be the 'frontier'.

Even then Quantum Teleportation is right around the corner compared to interstellar spaceships.

Once we do have them, bending space will probably be their only function and they will have unimpressive speeds.

Humans are freaking cheaters.

originally posted by: olaru12

I would think that having a solid education system would contribute greatly to innovation but continue to pay teachers poorly, attract the unqualified, and make the education environment distasteful for both teachers and students; you wind up with a bunch of dumbass people that are unprepared to compete in a global market.

You get what you pay for!!! It's a matter of priorities....Build that wall!!

Send in the clowns!

Sorry, but I blame the teachers union for the categorical dumbing down of American Public Education.
No money to anything union, If I get my way.

Public teachers these days are nothing more than modern priests of thought, and gate keepers of behavior. Conditioning little minds to only accept Experts™ approved by the entrenched system™ of permissions and controls.


Mike Grouchy

One can not have an economy based on infinite growth

originally posted by: LordSatan
Yes you can. The assumption that we cannot is based around the idea that civilization is static, or stagnant.

Why did you cut off the other half of the sentence?

You know. The part WITH THE GORRAM SOLUTION.


Here.

"One can not have an economy based on infinite growth
if one cancels the gorram space program.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: imjack

Honestly, we're leaving Earth via Dimension and Time Travel far before we ever build any spaceship and fly somewhere in it. Both have much more practicality than something that is considered to be the 'frontier'.

Even then Quantum Teleportation is right around the corner compared to interstellar spaceships.

Once we do have them, bending space will probably be their only function and they will have unimpressive speeds.

Humans are freaking cheaters.

Sorry but a mandatory ID check is required to engage me in any discussion Time Travel.

What is the Time Travelers password?


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: olaru12

I would think that having a solid education system would contribute greatly to innovation but continue to pay teachers poorly, attract the unqualified, and make the education environment distasteful for both teachers and students; you wind up with a bunch of dumbass people that are unprepared to compete in a global market.

I don't think education has much to offer in terms of innovation. A solid education is important to development, indeed, but to innovation, the opening of opportunities is a far greater boon.