Military Service

I was meant to write up a thread on the creation and ultimate destruction of our universe, or at the very least my theory of it, but due to a lack of understanding I have postponed till I have an average understanding of current theories relating to matter and other issues. So, instead of that thread I decided to focus on the military. This specifically targets the American military(though all services have the same effect).

The main focus of this thread is to see what most people think of the military, it's current missions and serving in its branches(Army, USMC, etc.). Now within these parameters the primary focus is whether you believe our children or ourselves should be serving in the military. The focus is not the political situation of the world(namely the Middle East), but rather the prospect of serving.

My personal thoughts of serving in the military are that it should be for the purpose of defending one's country from foreign invaders. However, recently I have been considering the idea of serving in the military(as a concept) because I believe it can create or form a stronger character, more discipline and teach valuable skills.

Many think differently(from personal experience) and many think alike. There are those who see the military as a brainwashing service(and it certainly can be), others see it as the only route or worse as "fun"(mainly young ones after playing video games), and again others see it as I described. What are your thoughts? Why would you want to or want your children to serve and what would be the reasoning behind opposing this?

It would be great to hear some veterans thoughts on this matter.

I am a veteran (US Navy). My daughter also served (US Navy). My father was in WW II (US Army). My grandson is seriously considering the USMC. Now, the one thing I want to get across here is that the US Military does not start wars or military action. Civilians do. Every time. Civilians tell our military to "go there" and the military obeys, even when they fully understand that the goal of the civilians is stupid, unattainable, reckless, and even unethical. It is not for the military to "reason why," but to "do or die" and then get spat upon by--civilians.

I have a lot of respect for civilian control of the military. Otherwise, we have a military dictatorship. I just wish civilians understood that. You can't force your military into battle, then condemn them for going there. That's the epitome of being hypocritical.

a reply to: schuyler
Well the government controls the military often with the people's support(though not always for example Vietnam). I agree with your analysis of the treatment of military veterans and current members by the civilian population. It is unjust. These men and women go into combat and end up left unsupported by their nation. It's terrible.

However, the main point is why should an individual join the military, or shouldn't for that matter. The effects on character, discipline, perhaps future prospects, etc. Thanks for your answer and your service(as well as the service of your family).

A lot more than just defending. I served 20 years, most of it was responding to disasters...Katrina, BP Spill, Super Storm Sandy. People often forget that aspect of it. War is a big part of it, I did that as well and that was the reason I retired. I did not agree with these wars, especially after Obama ran on the platform of getting us out of these wars. We are still there which is insane. He also does not understand you can't win with airstrikes and drones. Those are just tools, never going to win with those tactics. Those tactics are actually worse because it fuels reprisal killings. If you want to win you have to send bodies on the ground and leave them for a long time. Obama is all over the place and the reason why he created a big mess. Glad I retired because it looks like Hillary will win and she is even more clueless. You have to use overwhelming force. There is no other way.

a reply to: LifeMode

Good point. Serving the country not only with defense of the nation, but also with natural disasters. What about war made you retire? I understand it is not fun and games, but what effect did it have on you that made you quit? I understand the question may be personal so don't feel obligated to answer. I agree if you go to war you need to go all the way. Airstrikes will hurt the enemy, but never defeat them completely. But that isn't the entire purpose of this thread, but nonetheless thank you for your reply.

a reply to: ksiezyc

Kind of a broad question...

Whatever you choose to do, please remember it's the US citizens who ultimately decide where you go or don't go. No military branch unilaterally decides anything. Just part of the deal.

Brainwashing? If you are brainwash-able, anything/anyone can skew your POV.

Build character? Sure, if you have a good character to start with. It will get reinforced.

Fun? It sure can be. It can suck too. The two go hand in hand and go back to that character thing. Folks who are on board for stuff only during the good times do not make good service members.

After 25 years I can say I would do it again in a heartbeat. I'm a person who needs to be challenged and needs some adventure in my life. I also need to be around people I can count on.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

a reply to: ABNARTY

Broad questions allow for discussion and not simple answers. The question essentially is asking for reasons to go or not go to the military through what people believe military service does for an individual or to an individual.

All dependent on the person. Good answers. I personally am not enlisting, just wanted to discuss the concept of enlistment for future generations.

I retired because the conflicts are pointless and the leadership (Obama) refuses to commit to winning or losing. We are just in this hades state. Can't do that with war. You are either all in or or all out. There is no middle ground. If we are not going in to win then stay out of it. Otherwise it digresses into a forever war where nobody wins. Hillary will do the same thing. I was not happy about Iraq but we were committed with Bush. It was working. Trump would do the same. He would be committed to seeing it through and listen to the Generals on how to win. If she wins I would not advise anyone joining. It will turn into a global quagmire of conflicts just like we have now only worse.

a reply to: LifeMode

I agree. Either go all out in a war or stay home, but perhaps it is the objective to have a perpetual war? I'll keep your advice in mind, but the next administration may(hopefully) alter course with the conflicts.

If you feel that your wife can give birth while half pregnant , then yes, join the military. You see, it is the boss at the top (Commander in Chief ) civilian that gives the orders to fight wars out of the USA. Inside the USA, if necessary, then yes, your wife is completely pregnant and can give birth, ( later in life you'll be at ease with your life, USAF veteran) so yes, join the military if you feel that way. Other then that, the truth or (dreams of what the truth really was) I say, join with your mind, not your heart. I say that that since I served in the TAC and SAC in the Air Force. Remember one thing, WAR IS HELL.

a reply to: musicismagic

I'm not quite certain I understand your point about the wife being half pregnant. I assume you mean with regards to the perpetual conflict(not officially a war) that is being fought now?

I think, as stated in the OP, that military service can develop character and discipline and these are both good things. However, there are possibilities of physical and mental damage which act as cons to these.

a reply to: schuyler

Now, the one thing I want to get across here is that the US Military does not start wars or military action. Civilians do. Every time. Civilians tell our military to "go there" and the military obeys

It's good to see this attitude chimed in right off the bat. No, civilians do not tell our military to go to war. What you just said you believe in is indoctrination. My condolences.

I have a lot of respect for civilian control of the military. Otherwise, we have a military dictatorship. I just wish civilians understood that. You can't force your military into battle, then condemn them for going there. That's the epitome of being hypocritical.

Civi's didn't tell you to go to war. Your commanding officer did, and his did as well, and up and up.

Please don't EVER try to say the PEOPLE told you to go to war. You need to admit your own fault. You were duped into a nationalistic standpoint due to your family upbringing and YOU will continue that family tradition of military. Because it's something YOU were taught and now believe in, and now you are passing the belief.

Our military has been a glorified killing brigade for the better part of 2 decades. There were never real threats in our invasions, only private interests and false information.

I respect people that join the military, because you applied for a job that you will now possibly die in, but at the same time I also loathe you. You serve a corporate interest. If you didn't you wouldn't be paid.

1st, I am a veteran (6yrs active & another 5 reserves) of the Army.

I served because I believe in our nation and the world and that it is our responsibility to serve said nation to the best of our ability. After all, this freedom that we love so much and which gives people the ability to curse and spit on said freedom, comes at a cost. And yes, a strong military is the best way to keep peace, but only if you are willing to use it. Otherwise it is just an expensive and impotent symbol.

Now, as far as cost goes . . . everyone thinks that we spend too much on the defense budget. Well, we do. We do not need to spend the money which we do on some of our vehicles and aircraft. That being said, we could save a good chunk by getting rid of these obscene tests etc.. for new equipment (such as uniforms . . . that was a joke).

As for the reason I got out (this could also save a buttload of money), I got tired of watching my 'highly trained' soldiers sit on their hands while our counterparts the contractors (most of which were former privates from our field/job (MOS) and could not cut the mustard) did said jobs for four times what my soldiers were getting paid. That really tanned my hide.

I eventually left the reserves because my unit was FUBAR. It did not take care of soldiers, provide correct training, or even give recognition when earned . . . unless of course you were full time and worked in the S1's (personnell) office or the adjutant's (commander's assistant) office.

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but it's what I have to offer.

a reply to: Vector99

Civi's didn't tell you to go to war. Your commanding officer did, and his did as well, and up and up. Please don't EVER try to say the PEOPLE told you to go to war. You need to admit your own fault. You were duped into a nationalistic standpoint due to your family upbringing and YOU will continue that family tradition of military. Because it's something YOU were taught and now believe in, and now you are passing the belief. Our military has been a glorified killing brigade for the better part of 2 decades. There were never real threats in our invasions, only private interests and false information. I respect people that join the military, because you applied for a job that you will now possibly die in, but at the same time I also loathe you. You serve a corporate interest. If you didn't you wouldn't be paid.

You have zero concept of how the military works. The CIC or POTUS (titles are interchangeable) is the head of the military. He along with the SEC State & SECDEF make decisions for the military and the Generals carry out their orders by passing them down the line. Only Congress can declare war.

So, yes . . . our military is ran by civilians. They say go, and the military goes.

a reply to: JDeLattre89

It answers some questions and any insight is good. I'm looking less for the business as to personal reasons of going or not going.

a reply to: JDeLattre89

I think it is meant that average civilians don't command the military to go to war.

But they do. Civilians elect their reps, who decide to go to war on their behalf, and the military goes. Now, the civ gov may not listen to the citizens, but that is how it works. It is up to the citizenry to get their reps to listen (voting out usually does the trick).

Yeah, I got carried away on the bus side, but like I said, it had alot to do with me getting out.

Now, are you actually considering joining up? If so, what are your expectations?
Also, what do you want to do in the military?

These questions are important, because they will determine which branch you are suited for as well as whether active duty, reserves, or NG.

Another question you want to ask yourself is if you would prefer to be a teacher or administrator, both are leaders, but in different ways. NCOs are teachers and officers are admin.

a reply to: JDeLattre89
You have a point there, but I might be willing to disagree. I think the Vietnam War is a great example.

I'm considering it. I would be signing up a little late and not at the present time. Possibly in three years with the hopes to learn skills that few other places could teach, for discipline and to find brotherhood. Fighting for the country is not my reasoning. Nor is my support of the war(I don't).

What I'd like to do? Just a regular foot soldier/infantry. Likely the Army or NG.

I'm not sure about the final question.

To the Vietnam thing . . . yes & no. The people wanted to go at first (all ready to defeat communism), but like always got sick of war quick. At that point it is too late, you have committed yourself. Withdrawing too early is why we lost Vietnam (well part of) we were not fully committed.

Ok, instead of what you want to do in the military, what do you want to learn? What type of skills?

a reply to: JDeLattre89

Skills related to firearms, combat, and other physical skills. Character/discipline are perhaps the bigger reasons. Though there are still others that erase other options from the list of options. I am still giving it thought, both of the seriousness I have towards it and the outcome if I am and do enlist. So I'm sorry for the broad answers.