"God's cleansing" or Devil tormenting the good people before the Day of the Lord?

a reply to: Joecroft

And remember what I said in my first post; in the Bible Satan does Gods bidding…i.e. He does what God orders him to do…this is normally done to teach a person that they are on the wrong path etc…

is this not akin to the pope working hand in hand with saddam hussein? i have difficulty appreciating someone who uses fear as a teaching instrument. using fear out of love is like waging war in the name of peace.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Originally posted by TzarChasm
is this not akin to the pope working hand in hand with saddam hussein? i have difficulty appreciating someone who uses fear as a teaching instrument. using fear out of love is like waging war in the name of peace.

Yes, good point and that’s how most Religious posters like 2012newstart and many others tend to view it i.e. Literally, instead of metaphorically and symbolically…

You see IMO those verses in the Bible and others like them are parables to teach people about the nature of God, in other words there are not meant to taken literally.

Living in alignment with Spirit is when a person is walking in the light of the truth. The opposite of that is following our own selfish egos, and living only for the flesh, that’s when Satan is said to be working through us.

When this happens negative things will automatically come into our lives i.e. the demons come in, and we reap what we sow…But all those negative aspects teach us certain lessons that we need to learn. It’s all goes back to the duality spoken about in the Garden of Eden parable…


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: TzarChasm

Originally posted by
is this not akin to the pope working hand in hand with saddam hussein? i have difficulty appreciating someone who uses fear as a teaching instrument. using fear out of love is like waging war in the name of peace.

Yes, good point and that’s how most Religious posters like 2012newstart and many others tend to view it i.e. Literally, instead of metaphorically and symbolically…

You see IMO those verses in the Bible and others like them are parables to teach people about the nature of God, in other words there are not meant to taken literally.

Living in alignment with Spirit is when a person is walking in the light of the truth. The opposite of that is following our own selfish egos, and living only for the flesh, that’s when Satan is said to be working through us.

When this happens negative things will automatically come into our lives i.e. the demons come in, and we reap what we sow…But all those negative aspects teach us certain lessons that we need to learn. It’s all goes back to the duality spoken about in the Garden of Eden parable…


- JC

fascinating. on more than one occasion it as struck me as curious to hear people talk about selflessness and detachment from ego...but then when you ask them about the afterlife, and why they are interested in it, they give you all these reasons that are nothing but self and ego. oh, its beautiful, oh there is no suffering, all the people you care about are there, you have everything you want and nothing you hate, its like it was MADE FOR US... but you have to let go of ego and selfishness to get there. you know, the whole reason you want to go there to begin with. it seems to me that if you truly severed yourself from ego and all sense of wanting, you wouldnt care in the least if you went to hell instead of heaven. but maybe im looking at it wrong.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Originally posted by
but you have to let go of ego and selfishness to get there. you know, the whole reason you want to go there to begin with. it seems to me that if you truly severed yourself from ego and all sense of wanting, you wouldnt care in the least if you went to hell instead of heaven. but maybe im looking at it wrong.

Depends on how you are viewing Heaven and Hell most people picture the standard religious view of them. I personally don’t subscribe to this total destruction of the soul or people being tortured in Hell forever, and believe this goes against Jesus real teachings, when understand metaphorically…

Hell is living in the mind-set of the Flesh without knowledge of the Spirit, and the flip side of that is having knowledge of the Spirit which is living in the Kingdom, as I will explain further down in this post…

The whole process of letting go of ego, or using paths that go through the heart such as Jesus teachings…is that they all help you to find that Spirit within yourself…

This is what Jesus was really talking about with becoming Born again, through receiving the Holy Sprit. The Gnostic view, is that “the Kingdom of God is within you.” which is also said by Jesus in the NT, but Standard Christian theology came in and distorted this view/teaching. So when a person experiences the knowledge of the Spirit, they enter the Kingdom of God Now! Not after death, although even after death their spirit/Soul will still be in the Kingdom of God…

People often say is there wine in Heaven or similar such questions etc…well you’re in the Kingdom right now! and are experiencing wine and many other good things…And you will experience countless other worlds/planets and spirituals realms which the mind can’t even begin to comprehend…that’s the Kingdoms and many mansions which Jesus spoke about IMO… The reason people don’t remember all these things is because it would get in the way of their experience here. But there are apparently techniques to help remember past lives etc…

It’s the letting go of ego which allows you to find that Spirit within yourself, and you realize you are in the Kingdom and will experience it’s many worlds and mansions forever…And after death you will go to the right place depending on your spiritual journey so far, with guidance from the Father.

Of course what I’m describing is no where near the standard and literal view of Heaven and Hell; although depending on their spiritual path a person may have to experience something bad, but only in order to learn and progress from it. So that could be viewed as a kind of Hell, but it’s certainly a far cry away from being tortured for all eternity or being destroyed forever etc…


- JC

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Peeple

Not when I said dimwit.
But OP is offering a thread that addresses mans spirituality.
If you aren't a spiritual person that's fine. But you could have some
respect for people who are.

Oh! So now WE are the ones disrespecting you? How about the "christians" that sneak into our gated community every week to spread their superstitions beliefs? When will christians accept that I don't want to hear their nonsense, and respect my beliefs?

The bearer of this mornings visit tried a new approach, and asked me if there was anything I wanted him to pray for for me. My response: "I'd like for you to pray that christians would stop knocking on my door every weekend." Ten bucks says that his prayers will go unanswered. (surprise)

a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

Poor baby you have it so ruff.
Here's a new approach, stop sniveling about pety crap that involves
only you and what you want. You and your whole high and mighty
gated community.

You have so much hate why don't you do something about it.
Besides wine on ATS? I'm think'n you might just cry.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

Poor baby you have it so ruff.
Here's a new approach, stop sniveling about pety crap that involves
only you and what you want. You and your whole high and mighty
gated community.

You have so much hate why don't you do something about it.
Besides wine on ATS? I'm think'n you might just cry.

So what are you saying, that you should be able to infringe upon my privacy because of your ignorant, superstitious beliefs? That, sir, is why I hate christians. It's because you think that I owe you something. It's because you think that you have the right to dictate my beliefs on my property. You people are sick and deluded, and need to learn respect for others before whining about being "persecuted."

a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

So what are you saying, that you should be able to infringe upon my privacy

I don't recall saying anything about myself and you are exaggerating over the top about
your privacy. Especially the way this country has gone now days. Your time complaining
about that could certainly be better well dispersed amigo. I think you know that. And you
have no excuse for the hate you feel. As I've already said that's generated by fear. And by
the way all those lil fears are completely unfounded. Try being a human being it's not all that
bad.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

So what are you saying, that you should be able to infringe upon my privacy

I don't recall saying anything about myself and you are exaggerating over the top about
your privacy. Especially the way this country has gone now days. Your time complaining
about that could certainly be better well dispersed amigo. I think you know that. And you
have no excuse for the hate you feel. As I've already said that's generated by fear. And by
the way all those lil fears are completely unfounded. Try being a human being it's not all that
bad.

If a person enters my property without authorization knowing that I don't want them there, is that not infringing on my privacy? How about if they invite themselves inside? Private property is private property, and a person is entitled to privacy in their own home.

I deeply resent people trying to force their ideas and beliefs on me, but that' not hate. Hate is the message you portray in your posts directed at me. Intolerance is trying to force people like me to adopt your superstitious beliefs against our will.

Religion is generally intolerant of diversity. Most religions actively fight equal rights for women, and they crap all over the gays. Why? Because they believe that everyone should be bound by their superstitions and prejudices, and because they don't think that anyone is entitled to their own opinion. Read through my post history. I support womens rights. I support gay rights. Why? Because that's what truly compassionate people do. Religion could learn a lot from people like me.

If I tell a trespasser I'm no interested, I mean I'm not interested. I don't mean come back tomorrow. I don't mean try again next week. I don't mean give me 30 days to think about it. I explicitly mean DON'T BOTHER ME. If you choose to continue to do so, yeah, you are infringing on my right to privacy and I have every right to treat you with disdain. If i came to your home EVERY weekend, ignored your no soliciting signs and rudely argued about how you were an immoral person unless you believe as I do, how would you deal with that? It my be tolerable for a week or two, but after years of this crap I really am SICK of it, and every time someone comes calling makes me resent religion even more.

Finally, in regard to your "Try being a human being it's not all that bad" comment, I'll say this. As a wife, mother grandmother and great grandmother, I've never had my humanity challenged by anyone except overtly self centered individuals whose sole intent was to attack and berate. As far as I'm concerned, minding my own business and raising a family with morals, taking pride in our service to country and American heritage, and relishing the fact that my family is "doing it right" is all the justification that I need. We do things because it's the right thing to do, not because we're intimidated by the prospect of eternal damnation.

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: TzarChasm

Originally posted by TzarChasm
is this not akin to the pope working hand in hand with saddam hussein? i have difficulty appreciating someone who uses fear as a teaching instrument. using fear out of love is like waging war in the name of peace.

Yes, good point and that’s how most Religious posters like 2012newstart and many others tend to view it i.e. Literally, instead of metaphorically and symbolically…

Perhaps there are quite many "religious posters" like 2012newstart (me). I am a believer in God and in holy books. Although I believe God didn't create the word "religion" etc. Cardinal Martini of Milan said it much further, detailing God is not catholic as well. Symbolism has its place.

For example, modern Biblical researchers don't accept literally the 6 days of creation rather days = periods of time probably millions or more years. There is a place for symbolism, and there is a place for knowing the truth and discerning what was added in later centuries branded "written by apostles", while other parts being removed. We are talking of pretty significant moments, such as whether Jesus had a wife and descendants, what was the role of the angels that didn't have wings, etc.

If after all my posts you would call my posts "religious posts like that and many others" be my guest. Nothing personal, just have to clarify it for the seek of the truth I am searching in all my posts, that I pretend are unique made for the first time in the internet pubic domain. Specifically, for the first time was introduced the idea of Jesus moving to other planets after Ascension and having descendants there, in view of the modern exoplanetary research of possible habitable planets. A first step of galactic understanding of religion if you like. I don't know of anyone else to write that pubicly on internet, although such research might exist in secret spiritual centers (jesuit astronomers may or may not do something similar, don't know). The point is, that is made available on internet, that is the virtual knowledge base of the new humanity, accessible both for pope and Dalai Lama, for a New Yorker beggar and a Third World billionaire.

We are before a new dawn of humanity, wanted or not. Peaceful or not. What is said today among a group of 200 devote persons seeking the truth, will be said tomorrow to the millions. The paradigm shift is occurring, it has not been declared as such by the officials yet. And I don't understand why particularly pope Francis who was elected in the name of change, didn't do that paradigm shift by now. What is being waited for, were those 500 days of the French minister visiting Kerry or what? All time schedules have passed. We could have the change overnight, and it will be one overnight.

a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon


Out of all the unrelated hyper extended profuse defending of yourself
you just made. This is exactly why you should just try what I'm saying.

Religion could learn a lot from people like me.

You and I don't have to act like we hate each other here. Take the mormons I
recently allowed into my home. We are only similar in our beliefs. But I
would never just treat anybody the way you condone. That would make me
a horrible person. Instead I took them in and I took control of the conversation
and they couldn't believe the knowledge I had under my belt. And then was
able to tie it all in to what's going on in the world today. And those two young
gentlemen left with a completely different perspective. And it was fun and I
didn't have to be an asshole. Do you see what I'm sayin?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

You and I don't have to act like we hate each other here. Take the mormons I
recently allowed into my home. We are only similar in our beliefs. But I
would never just treat anybody the way you condone. That would make me
a horrible person. Instead I took them in and I took control of the conversation
and they couldn't believe the knowledge I had under my belt. And then was
able to tie it all in to what's going on in the world today. And those two young
gentlemen left with a completely different perspective. And it was fun and I
didn't have to be an asshole. Do you see what I'm sayin?

My point is that asking nicely doesn't work.

* "No thanks"
* "I'm not interested"
* "I've told you already, I'm happy as I am"
* "No. Please leave"
* "Leave NOW!"

I dare not ever let them inside either, because they interpret such as empowerment, they dig in, ask me to pray with them, and other things I don't condone. How many times do I have to go through the above spiel before people people simply respect my right to privacy? If you went through this almost every weekend, for years, you'd probably have lost your mind too. I wasn't an asshole, but once I'm irritated I may start to resemble one.

If people want to believe in a god I absolutely support that. My late father was a pastor and my brother is a pastor. I know more about the bible than the vast majority of christians, but after following my heart and rejecting religion, all I've ever asked for was to be left to make decisions for myself. I only wish that would be respected without people labeling me as a horrible person.

a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

Then get a sign that says something
appropriate. And don't say that won't help.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

Then get a sign that says something
appropriate. And don't say that won't help.

Signs posted:

* Private Property

* No Trespassing

* No Soliciting

What new signs should I try? To insinuate that more signs will help is as ridiculous as believing that passing more anti gun laws will convince criminals to stop committing crimes.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

Then get a sign that says something
appropriate. And don't say that won't help.

How would you respond if a Muslim attempted to peddle their faith on your doorstep week after week after week?

a reply to: TzarChasm

How would you respond if a Muslim attempted to peddle their faith on your doorstep week after week after week?

Why do you want me to believe you aren't bright enough to derive that from
what I've already said?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: TzarChasm

How would you respond if a Muslim attempted to peddle their faith on your doorstep week after week after week?

Why do you want me to believe you aren't bright enough to derive that from
what I've already said?

Because Mormons aren't Muslims. Are you going to actually answer the question?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Because Mormons aren't Muslims. Are you going to actually answer the question?

Nope, think of a better one.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Because Mormons aren't Muslims. Are you going to actually answer the question?

Nope, think of a better one.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Because Mormons aren't Muslims. Are you going to actually answer the question?

Triple post aren't you lucky!