RT: Alien cliques may be keeping Earth isolated - study

originally posted by: Kandinsky

originally posted by: tinner07
Or perhaps we have the most advanced technology in the universe???

Yeah. Something has to be first and it could be us.

A depressing and possible fact.

It's 2016, can't we let go of the primitive idea God made us and only us? It's a pretty big place, what happened on Earth can just as well happen on other planets. Seriously, this place is so ancient it is uncountable and we would be the first, yeah right.

On the other hand, life might not be rare, but it might be rare for any life to venture out into space and what might be normal for life is to simply exist until it's natural resources are gone (like the end of a sun) after which it just disappears.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Ah thanks. I'll look into that.

A thought that's crossed my mind is that birds or certain insects may make up the "civilizations" that keep contact with extraterrestrials. Their languages and lifestyles are so different from ours that we'd have no idea of these secret interactions. In fact, most people simply ignore their existence, so it would be easy to "hide" this relationship.

I imagined large flocks of birds being led by "alphas" that are initiated into a secret group that communicates with ETs. To my knowledge, many birds can see UV rays. So I imagined that the ETs send UV holograms to communicate with birds. Then the birds report back to them about the aggressively violent apes that are destroying the land, basically warning them the same way humans warn each other about crocodiles and sharks. We could be in the presence of one of their meetings and we'd only see a loud flock of birds in the trees.

I also imagined if roaches were actually ET's allies that spent a lot of time spying on us. LOL I could see them hating our guts, but infiltrating our dwellings specifically to keep an eye on us. I've even imagined that some were fitted with microscopic surveillance devices that allow ETs to watch us (in horror) in real time.

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

It's 2016, can't we let go of the primitive idea God made us and only us? It's a pretty big place, what happened on Earth can just as well happen on other planets. Seriously, this place is so ancient it is uncountable and we would be the first, yeah right.

You set up a strawman and killed it with sarcasm. Poor strawman...always getting a bad deal.

It's possible we're the first planet to evolve technological life. We could be the only planet to have survived past single-cells. None of that requires a God or lack thereof. It's stands by itself as a possibility. Yes, we could be the first.

Passage of time isn't the driving factor because the rest of our equally old solar system is lifeless. At least it's devoid of visible, complex life.

Number of worlds isn't the driving factor either. Most of the explanets so far are uninhabitable and either frozen or scorched.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Actually it's occurred to me many times that if we could communicate with wildlife the stories we'd hear of what goes on in the woods would curl our hair.

Another random thought is that so many people disappear yearly we should be looking into where they are going? I don't mean the 411 BS, but human trafficking just doesn't account for all of it.

That said, I agree the stories we make up about what's going on in space are ludicrous. We just don't know. Sure we've sent a few probes out, and have circled the planet with all manner of satellites so now earth looks like a Hoarders front yard. Yet Space is just so vast and time out there is VERY different than the way we perceive it down here landslide.

Until more info comes to light we are just guessing at what's going on.
All we can say about the limited ET behavior so far is they "seem" to be biologically checking us out and they pop in & out apparently randomly. Ascribing motive's is premature.

We just don't know. Plus !

Their thinking, motives, agenda's would most likely be SO foreign to our way of thinking. To frame this within Human
contexts is going to lead us down the wrong road right out of the gate.

Also I'm sick and tired of the argument that Humans are so violent yadda-yadda that we aren't worth being contacted.
That's born from our own angst and has no place in framing the ET discussion.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: 2012newstart

If aliens really are attempting to prevent human/ET contact, would that not require human/ET contact?

You can't hold back a dog from running unless you physically build a fence around him or put a leash on him.

We would still see undeniable evidence of alien presence around us, which is not the case.

Because I post the article doesn't mean I agree with it. There are evidences for past contacts. All the holy books speak of it under various names. Whether we are kept under quarantine, I don't know. Rather the contact continues until this day, not only with angels though.

the last gasp of the UFO beweevers... now its ETs that are preventing us from contacting them.



another wild theory upon the thousands of wild theory to entertain the minds whom are so desperate to want to beleive there are some advanced races out there that can do magnificent things and deliberate mankind in some form.
and they'll come in peace and bring peace on earth and advanced tech and cure all diseases.

what a crippling and mind-shrouding inferiority complex.

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Actually it's occurred to me many times that if we could communicate with wildlife the stories we'd hear of what goes on in the woods would curl our hair.

I agree. One of my dreams is for humans to create wearable devices that translate all animal languages in real time. And of course, it allows us to communicate with them too. Though it would have to include pheromone detectors/creators and a bunch of other nonverbal methods for communicating.

That said, I agree the stories we make up about what's going on in space are ludicrous. We just don't know. Sure we've sent a few probes out, and have circled the planet with all manner of satellites so now earth looks like a Hoarders front yard. Yet Space is just so vast and time out there is VERY different than the way we perceive it down here landslide.

Yep. I'd never even considered that different creatures may perceive time differently until I saw some articles claiming some insects and small animals may perceive time faster than us. Then I started looking at some of the small birds that come around here, and I noticed some species' movements always seemed to jerk to and fro (as in, no smooth movements). It looked like they were moving at 1.5 times speed.

Until more info comes to light we are just guessing at what's going on. All we can say about the limited ET behavior so far is they "seem" to be biologically checking us out and they pop in & out apparently randomly. Ascribing motive's is premature.

True. But until we have some hard data, pretty much all of our conversations on this will be premature speculation.

Their thinking, motives, agenda's would most likely be SO foreign to our way of thinking. To frame this within Human contexts is going to lead us down the wrong road right out of the gate.

That's possible. But how can humans propose ideas from any perspective other than a human's perspective? We even consider animals and their actions through the eyes of humans. In fact, it might even be a coping mechanism for us to do this, otherwise some people may not be able to handle the idea of killing off or eating "equal" beings of a different species

Also I'm sick and tired of the argument that Humans are so violent yadda-yadda that we aren't worth being contacted. That's born from our own angst and has no place in framing the ET discussion.

This one I disagree with. 1. Don't known intelligent lifeforms avoid other lifeforms that they consider "dangerous"? 2. In fact, don't many lifeforms avoid non-dangerous lifeforms for seemingly no reason at all?

For the 1st example, just look at how rarely humans interact with great white sharks. Or hyenas. Or Nile crocodiles. Or hippos. The vast majority of people will avoid these living creatures at all costs strictly because of how dangerous they can potentially be. And that's regardless of how much more intelligent we are and how advanced our technology is. Animals of all kinds will avoid other creatures that they view as a danger, especially after watching those animals have large scale deathmatches.

And for the 2nd example, don't forget how many humans irrationally fear harmless insects or have other irrational phobias. Or how cats freak out when they see cucumbers. And anyone who's ever had pets knows that some animals are just "scaredy cats" for no reason.

Why should we assume that ETs are immune to this characteristic? Or more likely, what's the harm in looking into these ideas as possible scenarios? As long as all of our ideas don't center on them fearing us for rational or irrational reasons, I see no problem. In fact, we may be like poison dart frogs or eels to them, having bodily fluids that are fatally poisonous to them. Or maybe we're just ultra smelly to them like stink bugs or skunks, so they avoid us because of that lol.

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: Misterlondon

A caveman on Easter Island has no way of detecting civilisation in Europe..

If something funky was going on, we would have seen signs - abnormal dimming of stars,

nothing to see here just keep moving

That's possible. But how can humans propose ideas from any perspective other than a human's perspective? We even consider animals and their actions through the eyes of humans. In fact, it might even be a coping mechanism for us to do this, otherwise some people may not be able to handle the idea of killing off or eating "equal" beings of a different species

a reply to: enlightenedservant

We could think outside the box?
Using our minds isn't a bad thing, some imagination, creative thinking maybe? Anthropomorphizing everything we come into contact with is unrealistic.

This one I disagree with. 1. Don't known intelligent lifeforms avoid other lifeforms that they consider "dangerous"? 2. In fact, don't many lifeforms avoid non-dangerous lifeforms for seemingly no reason at all?

For the 1st example, just look at how rarely humans interact with great white sharks. Or hyenas. Or Nile crocodiles. Or hippos. The vast majority of people will avoid these living creatures at all costs strictly because of how dangerous they can potentially be. And that's regardless of how much more intelligent we are and how advanced our technology is. Animals of all kinds will avoid other creatures that they view as a danger, especially after watching those animals have large scale deathmatches.

And for the 2nd example, don't forget how many humans irrationally fear harmless insects or have other irrational phobias. Or how cats freak out when they see cucumbers.

First off we only imagine we are the baddest of thugglies in this corner of the universe. For example a cactus can put a hurting on you, but is easily avoided. Not out of fear, but because it's just a hassle to deal with. It's very easy to theorize that we haven't been contacted not because we are an immature society/species, but just cause it'd be a hassle for them to have to converse with us, explain things, have us pestering them. Who needs that right?

Why should we assume that ETs are immune to this characteristic? Or more likely, what's the harm in looking into these ideas as possible scenarios? As long as all of our ideas don't center on them fearing us for rational or irrational reasons, I see no problem. In fact, we may be like poison dart frogs or eels to them, having bodily fluids that are fatally poisonous to them. Or maybe we're just ultra smelly to them like stink bugs or skunks, so they avoid us because of that lol.

Us or other life on earth may very well be hazardous to them. Since there don't seem to be many oxygen-centric planets around it may be as simple as our atmosphere is the hang up.

That alone may explain the hypothesis I've seen that the grays are like limited biological workers, or stretching it, a living version of our robots. The real deal aliens may be hanging back and sending in the drones for the exploratory.

Yep. I'd never even considered that different creatures may perceive time differently until I saw some articles claiming some insects and small animals may perceive time faster than us. Then I started looking at some of the small birds that come around here, and I noticed some species' movements always seemed to jerk to and fro (as in, no smooth movements). It looked like they were moving at 1.5 times speed.

Time is artificially gauged by our planets rotation. It's long been discussed that if we sent Humans out into space they would age slower etc.....time is a perception we are taught from an early age. Ever wonder what you'd be like without deadlines? Without any timeframe? In space there aren't seasons, day or night wonder how much you'd get done without the artificial pressure or distractions?

a reply to: 2012newstart

I don't really agree like the article says, partially because it's based off of our interactions. Truth is, we don't know what an extraterrestrial community might look like, or how they might consider us.

My theory (assuming that you go with the idea that no one has visited us, or that no one survived their encounters with us), is that maybe we are just located in an uninteresting part of space. Maybe, while we are sending out signals (and have been for quite some time), the civilizations that are getting the transmissions either don't have the level of technology to interpret them, or are long gone by the time the signals get to them.

Kind of hard to talk to someone if you don't even know they exist.

-foss

a reply to: 2012newstart

Sometimes the simplest answer is really the best answer, until or if we 'learn' differently.

This is predicated with understanding and acceptance of a principle called 'Occams Razor'.

What is the meaning of Occam's razor? Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is.

So for now, Fermi's paradox would seem to fit the Occams Razor philosophy.

What is the Fermi's paradox? The Fermi paradox (or Fermi's paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilization and humanity's lack of contact with, or evidence for, such civilizations.

If indeed there of Extraterrestial Biological Entities (EBE's) out there, with superior intelligence, perhaps, the only reason we have not found them, or likewise that they have not found us is: The fact that WE just have not developed the technology needed to find, identify and eventually to make contact.

Maybe SETI is obsolete. Maybe all these radio signals, even some laser beams are just not making it to any location out there that can receive them. That would mean they don't know we are here, and that we cannot find them.

Then if they are even equal and even just slightly advanced....same problem, just have not found the correct transmission device, strong enough telescope to identify another intelligent civilization.

I am not saying that microbial life doesn't exist somewhere, I think that is a given. I am not saying intelligent EBE's do not exist. What I am saying is as Fermi suggested more than 60 years ago, if the universe is full of life, where is it?

Cheers!


KD

a reply to: Misterlondon

I dont think we are the first judging by the rate of our own evolution and the age of the Universe.

I find that theory very reasonable. If it's true that ET exists and does observer would you really want to deal with the people we have leading this country or even this world. We're a nasty virus. It's full of greed and violence. It's almost like arming a particular group in the middle east and not expecting them to grow and eventually come after you. That's why always thought the theory that aliens would trade technology with us was silly. They would be fools to trust us lol.

So,not only is the entire planet in existential "high school",we aren't even allowed on the short bus,great.

a reply to: Caver78

We could think outside the box? Using our minds isn't a bad thing, some imagination, creative thinking maybe? Anthropomorphizing everything we come into contact with is unrealistic.

Then please give an example of an idea from a non-human perspective. No matter what example you give, it will still be a human's take on what something else may think or feel.

First off we only imagine we are the baddest of thugglies in this corner of the universe. For example a cactus can put a hurting on you, but is easily avoided. Not out of fear, but because it's just a hassle to deal with. It's very easy to theorize that we haven't been contacted not because we are an immature society/species, but just cause it'd be a hassle for them to have to converse with us, explain things, have us pestering them. Who needs that right?

I never said we were the baddest of anything. I used examples from us being smelly, having poisonous bodily fluids to them, us being potentially dangerous like the animals I listed, etc. I even gave a second perspective, which is that it may be because of seemingly no reason at all (like cats & cucumbers or people with odd phobias).

Though something at the end of this part of your post made me think of something else. Perhaps they just haven't discovered us yet or simply don't find us interesting. Most or all humans around the world know of the existence of fleas. But very few (if any) humans care enough about them to study them, talk to them, help them build advanced nests, learn their lifestyles, etc. The vast majority of people simply ignore them, intentionally avoid them, exterminate them, or get flea collars to repel them from pets.

Us or other life on earth may very well be hazardous to them. Since there don't seem to be many oxygen-centric planets around it may be as simple as our atmosphere is the hang up.

That alone may explain the hypothesis I've seen that the grays are like limited biological workers, or stretching it, a living version of our robots. The real deal aliens may be hanging back and sending in the drones for the exploratory.

Good point (especially about the atmosphere).

Time is artificially gauged by our planets rotation. It's long been discussed that if we sent Humans out into space they would age slower etc.....time is a perception we are taught from an early age. Ever wonder what you'd be like without deadlines? Without any timeframe? In space there aren't seasons, day or night wonder how much you'd get done without the artificial pressure or distractions?

I'm not talking about human measurements of time; I mean the time needed to process information and physically carry out a reaction to it. Different creatures process information at different speeds and have different physical speeds for normal movements. This would also give them different perspectives of time.

For example, a 3-toed sloth is currently acknowledged as the world's slowest creature. But from the sloth's perspective, things are going at its normal speed. So the real question is this: are other creatures "speed demons" in the eyes of a 3 toed sloth? The same goes for a really "slow" turtle. In its eyes, its speed is normal. But to humans, it seems incredibly slow.

Now contrast that with computer programs that can process and react to information exponentially faster than humans can. Computer based AI would probably see humans as incredibly "slow" creatures. They could carry out highly detailed conversations and the related calculations in the same time it takes us to say a single phrase. And as the technology increases, the perceived speed gap would continue to increase, making humans appear "slower" to them over time.

So all I was saying is that some forms of extraterrestrials may have vastly faster brains, with bodies that can react to stimuli at much faster rates than humans (like the computer based AI I mentioned above). In that case, their perspective of time would be vastly different from ours. One "second" in our minds could be the equivalent of one "hour" in theirs, meaning they could do the same amount of work in a second that we can do in an hour. It would be possible that something like this could move so fast that our senses simply couldn't perceive them.

a reply to: 2012newstart

I find the premises of these types of article to be incredibly stupid.

A fleet of UFOs flew over the f'ing whitehouse in broad daylight over half a century ago and we're still seeing idiots pretend they're ignoring us???

It's as if they won't believe anything until they wake up one morning to bacon and eggs, cooked and served by a blue alien from Mars with a shirt on stating, I'm not from Earth.

Be thankful we're in the dark.

The last thing this planet needs is the revelation we've been messed with by shady cowards with better tech than us.. for century's.

not nice suddenly realizing your/we're just a fly in the spiders web.. imagine that globally.. bad news.

and that.. is why we can't have nice things.

Don't take it personally OP

..... it's a global thing !

originally posted by: Misterlondon

originally posted by: Kandinsky

originally posted by: tinner07
Or perhaps we have the most advanced technology in the universe???

Yeah. Something has to be first and it could be us.

A depressing and possible fact.

This is one of the best comments I have ever read.. Never really thought about us being the first, but your right we very well could be..

There's some remarkable achievements and even more remarkable stories in our ancient past. Arguments made reflect that we weren't even the first of our species.

It would be quite a stretch to conclude we're the first.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

I meant the 'first' in terms of universally or even galactically. Granted we're not the first humanoid iterations on this planet; we still might be the first technological species on any planet or moon.

It's not where my heart is, but it's a possibility with more evidence in its favour than the alternative.