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This CIA-Backed D-Wave Quantum Computer Will Change Your View of Reality Forever
page: 4share:
a reply to: Greggers
Who doesn't?
The D-Wave 2X™
Quantum Computer
Technology Overview
www.dwavesys.com...
From your link
arstechnica.com...
and we certainly do not refer to these as quantum devices.
Who doesn't?
The D-Wave 2X™
Quantum Computer
Technology Overview
Founded in 1999, D-Wave Systems is the world’s first quantum computing company. Our mission is to
integrate new discoveries in physics, engineering, manufacturing, and computer science into breakthrough
approaches to computation to help solve some of the world’s most challenging computing problems.
Quantum Computing
To speed computation, quantum computers tap directly into an unimaginably vast
fabric of reality – the strange and counter-intuitive world of quantum mechanics.
www.dwavesys.com...
From your link
We found the quantum
arstechnica.com...
edit on 3-9-2016 by
SeaWorthy because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Arbitrageur
There seems to be a lot of jealousy involved in the science discussions.
Is D-Wave a Quantum Computer?
www.eetimes.com...
Greggers and Bedlam are spot-on about this not even being a real quantum computer, so the "D-Wave Quantum Computer" did not "Change My View of Reality Forever", but if you don't know much about computers or quantum phycsics I guess nobody should fault you for falling for the hype of the CEO, but some due diligence might have led you to the article greggers posted, which sets the record straight, so I hope you read that and wouldn't use the same thread title if making a thread on this topic today.
There seems to be a lot of jealousy involved in the science discussions.
Is D-Wave a Quantum Computer?
www.eetimes.com...
However, the question kept nagging me in the back on my mind "why" D-Wave markets what it calls a quantum computer if it is not for real. To get to the bottom of it, I asked Jeremy Hilton, vice president of processor development of D-Wave Systems, Inc. (Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada) about why critics keep saying its quantum computer is not for real. He also revealed details about D-Wave's next generation quantum computer.
"The Holy Grail of quantum computing to build a 'universal' quantum computer—one that can solve any computational problem—but at a vastly higher speed that today's computers," Hilton told EE Times. "That's the reason some people say we don't have a 'real' quantum computer—because D-Wave's is not a 'universal' computer."
D-Wave's quantum computer, rather, only solves optimization problems, that is ones that can be expressed in a linear equation with lots of variables each with its own weight (the number that is multiplied times each variable). Normally, such linear equations are very difficult to solve for a conventional 'universal' computer, taking lots of iterations to find the optimal set of values for the variables. However, with D-Wave's application-specific quantum computer, such problems can be solved in a single cycle.
"We believe that starting with an application-specific quantum processor is the right way to go—as a stepping stone to the Holy Grail—a universal quantum computer," Hilton told us. "And that's what D-Wave does—we just to optimization problems using qubits."
Yep, the article I posted has a heading that says "we found the quantum." You really should read the article. If you do, you'll see that everything I
posted is correct.
Heck, you could just as easily (and just as accurately) use the title "we found the quantum" in an article about transistors.
The D-wave is a classical computer (not a quantum computer) that leverages quantum tunneling in a heretofore unique way. It is not a quantum computer in that it does not manipulate quantum bits directly. Furthermore, as I posted previously, the computational benefits of the chipset are specific to a particular type of calculation, which would be the case whether it was a quantum chipset or not. Task-specific chipsets tend to do pretty well at the specific thing they were designed to do, provided they were created competently to begin with.
And most importantly, since the D-Wave does not do any quantum manipulation that doesn't already exist by default in a classical computer, he absolutely has no specialized expertise with which to claim alternate universes exist.
The guy is a salesman, and he's full of BS.
And yes, I'm familiar with his pitch.
Heck, you could just as easily (and just as accurately) use the title "we found the quantum" in an article about transistors.
The D-wave is a classical computer (not a quantum computer) that leverages quantum tunneling in a heretofore unique way. It is not a quantum computer in that it does not manipulate quantum bits directly. Furthermore, as I posted previously, the computational benefits of the chipset are specific to a particular type of calculation, which would be the case whether it was a quantum chipset or not. Task-specific chipsets tend to do pretty well at the specific thing they were designed to do, provided they were created competently to begin with.
And most importantly, since the D-Wave does not do any quantum manipulation that doesn't already exist by default in a classical computer, he absolutely has no specialized expertise with which to claim alternate universes exist.
The guy is a salesman, and he's full of BS.
And yes, I'm familiar with his pitch.
edit on 3-9-2016 by Greggers because: (no reason given)
edit on 3-9-2016 by Greggers
because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
There seems to be a lot of jealousy involved in the science discussions.
Is D-Wave a Quantum Computer?
It's an annealer. You can use simulated/quantum annealing on a number of various (and seemingly unrelated) problems, but if it won't run Shor's, it ain't quantum.
The sorts of things it would be suited for...
With less math...
edit on 3-9-2016 by
Bedlam because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
There seems to be a lot of jealousy involved in the science discussions.
No, but there do seem to be a lot of people who are interested in proving whether D-Wave's claims are true, since a real quantum computer of the complexity they claim would be a phenomenal leap forward. Unfortunately, the hardware has been analyzed and it's not a quantum computer. It's a classical computer that leverages quantum tunneling in a novel way, which may or may not actually provide any specific computational benefit beyond that which would be available if no tunneling were employed.
Read that article. The benefit doesn't scale. And the chipset actually performs far worse at some tasks than a traditional processor. And even on the task for which it was designed, the tunneling can (and does) cause actual problems as the problem complexity increases.
And as the article says, they used easy engineering, which also gave them risky physics.
edit on 3-9-2016 by Greggers because: (no reason given)
edit on 3-9-2016 by Greggers because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Greggers
phenomenal leap aside, quantum progress has been slow. Forwardly, a Quantum Computer is a systematic set of variable functions, ie: binary is 101011011, whereas something quantum can have a value of 2, or 1 and 0 simultaneously- what I find interesting is how they scrape to a halt inspecting something that is essentially trinary functions, without putting much more thought into how expanding the variable set is what gives it much more potential to hold information in the first place. ie: a system with 6 systematic variable sets of information or something.
Using a laser and mirror set, they've created quantum computers that do have the capacity to process things in those scopes, but everyone only focuses on the third function because "it's so much cooler than 2".
phenomenal leap aside, quantum progress has been slow. Forwardly, a Quantum Computer is a systematic set of variable functions, ie: binary is 101011011, whereas something quantum can have a value of 2, or 1 and 0 simultaneously- what I find interesting is how they scrape to a halt inspecting something that is essentially trinary functions, without putting much more thought into how expanding the variable set is what gives it much more potential to hold information in the first place. ie: a system with 6 systematic variable sets of information or something.
Using a laser and mirror set, they've created quantum computers that do have the capacity to process things in those scopes, but everyone only focuses on the third function because "it's so much cooler than 2".
originally posted by: imjack
a reply to: Greggers
phenomenal leap aside, quantum progress has been slow. Forwardly, a Quantum Computer is a systematic set of variable functions, ie: binary is 101011011, whereas something quantum can have a value of 2, or 1 and 0 simultaneously- what I find interesting is how they scrape to a halt inspecting something that is essentially trinary functions, without putting much more thought into how expanding the variable set is what gives it much more potential to hold information in the first place. ie: a system with 6 systematic variable sets of information or something.
Using a laser and mirror set, they've created quantum computers that do have the capacity to process things in those scopes, but everyone only focuses on the third function because "it's so much cooler than 2".
Yep, and unfortunately, D-Wave isn't the leap forward everyone is waiting for. It is a very interesting idea -- I don't discount that. And I actually read the independent studies done on the hardware because I'm interested in seeing how it does.
I just don't like the CEO's hyperbolic, unfounded claims. Otherwise, I have no issues with giving D-Wave credit for some interesting engineering.
edit on 3-9-2016 by Greggers because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: Bedlam
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
There seems to be a lot of jealousy involved in the science discussions.
Is D-Wave a Quantum Computer?
It's an annealer. You can use simulated/quantum annealing on a number of various (and seemingly unrelated) problems, but if it won't run Shor's, it ain't quantum.
The sorts of things it would be suited for...
With less math...
Then why are they allowed to sell it as such?
D-Wave’s flagship product, the 1000-qubit D-Wave 2X quantum computer, is the most advanced quantum computer in the world. It is based on a novel type of superconducting processor that uses quantum mechanics to massively accelerate computation
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Greggers
Unfortunately, the hardware has been analyzed and it's not a quantum computer.
That is not what I get from all of the articles.
Read the article I posted a second time. It very clearly says that the processes in the D-Wave are "purely classical."
Are you saying that you've read an article somewhere that gives you the impression that the D-Wave directly (rather than indirectly through a classical process) manipulates quantum bits? Because I haven't even seen D-Wave claim that. What they generally claim is that their computer leverages "quantum effects," which is not the same thing.
Furthermore, if you've followed the conversation between Phage and I in this thread, you would perhaps better understand what D-Wave means when they claim their chipset leverages "quantum effects."
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
originally posted by: Bedlam
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
There seems to be a lot of jealousy involved in the science discussions.
Is D-Wave a Quantum Computer?
It's an annealer. You can use simulated/quantum annealing on a number of various (and seemingly unrelated) problems, but if it won't run Shor's, it ain't quantum.
The sorts of things it would be suited for...
With less math...
Then why are they allowed to sell it as such?
D-Wave’s flagship product, the 1000-qubit D-Wave 2X quantum computer, is the most advanced quantum computer in the world. It is based on a novel type of superconducting processor that uses quantum mechanics to massively accelerate computation
They are allowed to sell it as such because no one has sued them. And furthermore, it is highly unlikely anyone would sue them, as their chipset is very good at the task for which it was designed.
And yes, they do sell it as an annealer. That is the type of computation they sell it for.
Here are a few relevant excerpts from the article I posted earlier.
From: arstechnica.com...
As described, this is a purely classical process. The bits may be quantum entities, but you could also think of them as tiny magnets flipping up and down—no quantumness required. The quantum part comes in because D-Wave's hardware relies on quantum tunneling.
...one does not directly perform operations on individual bits or groups of bits. This is unlike circuit quantum computers, where there are single operations such as a CNOT (controlled not, the fundamental logic operation in quantum computing).
If the same process must occur between qubits that are only weakly coupled (e.g., via other qubits), then quantum tunneling becomes a very improbable process and offers little to no advantage in exiting the local minimum.
D-Wave's computer relies on its hardware physically undergoing this tunneling process. For those of you who want to play along at home, however, you can actually do the equivalent of all this on an ordinary computer.
Unfortunately, for every demonstration so far, it has been possible to find a classical implementation that cheats and beats the D-Wave processor.
From: arstechnica.com...
As described, this is a purely classical process. The bits may be quantum entities, but you could also think of them as tiny magnets flipping up and down—no quantumness required. The quantum part comes in because D-Wave's hardware relies on quantum tunneling.
...one does not directly perform operations on individual bits or groups of bits. This is unlike circuit quantum computers, where there are single operations such as a CNOT (controlled not, the fundamental logic operation in quantum computing).
If the same process must occur between qubits that are only weakly coupled (e.g., via other qubits), then quantum tunneling becomes a very improbable process and offers little to no advantage in exiting the local minimum.
D-Wave's computer relies on its hardware physically undergoing this tunneling process. For those of you who want to play along at home, however, you can actually do the equivalent of all this on an ordinary computer.
Unfortunately, for every demonstration so far, it has been possible to find a classical implementation that cheats and beats the D-Wave processor.
edit on 3-9-2016 by Greggers because: (no reason given)
Interesting sure - but not true quantum computing.
For the real deal, you need to peek behind the curtain to see what DARPA and the gubmint have under wraps from the public...
For the real deal, you need to peek behind the curtain to see what DARPA and the gubmint have under wraps from the public...
In the true sense of 'quantum computer' D-Wave is not it. Just some clever assemblage of silicon and circuits cooled down to just above absolute zero,
and quirky algorithms. Why is it not a true quantum computer? D-Wave is incapable of controlling and manoeuvring quantum states so that each variable
state of each quantum can be used to represent classical alpha-numeric meaning. They are seeking to interact and use quantum states from the classical
plane. To organise the variable quantum states of a quantum in such a way as to make sense at the classical level.
We are not efficient enough (and probably remain a long way off) to do what they hope to achieve. We cannot peer into the quantum level in order to precisely control quanta into particular states and to have them act as a quantum nib to write out expressions of answers to questions classical digital computers cannot process. Where quanta are concerned, we can only express that level of reality as probabilities. We cannot see sub-quanta so that we can manipulate them precisely. Only with broad brush strokes are we able to manipulate many quanta at a time. But in quantum computing, we are looking to manipulate an individual quantum alongside other multiple individual quanta and to set them up in particular states we want each quantum to express as a cubit. Even our most powerful supercomputers can only function as they do from the flow of electrons. Quantum computing theory needs to find ways around some pretty formidable obstacles, the foremost of which is to find a way to manipulate at the micro-level how nature expresses itself.
For my own part, I think quantum computers will necessarily require a CPU build very different from the linear and multi-stacked block which is the current configuration for classical computing. I envisage a cooled 3D ball lattice (envisage a multi-layered neuronal lattice, each node on the lattice a tiny switching magnet to use each magnet's brief magnetic field as a sensor) which is fully over-wrapped with a net membrane that acts as the classical interface for receiving signals from the 3D ball lattice wherein quantum states signal their configurations. The idea being that the signal of each individual quanta's state would need to be of sufficient energy strength to stimulate the layer of the lattice above it by altering each node's magnetic moment, fixing it into a brief configuration, that would equally stimulate the lattice layer above that, and so on until the signal - amplified at each layer reaches the wrap around membrane. This is how a quantum expressed signal reaches up to the classical level, by firstly capturing the signal and then amplifying it successively through the lattice layers.
The problem remains on how to manipulate each individual quantum into a desired state so that the quantum state expresses itself as a alpha-numeric meaning?
We are not efficient enough (and probably remain a long way off) to do what they hope to achieve. We cannot peer into the quantum level in order to precisely control quanta into particular states and to have them act as a quantum nib to write out expressions of answers to questions classical digital computers cannot process. Where quanta are concerned, we can only express that level of reality as probabilities. We cannot see sub-quanta so that we can manipulate them precisely. Only with broad brush strokes are we able to manipulate many quanta at a time. But in quantum computing, we are looking to manipulate an individual quantum alongside other multiple individual quanta and to set them up in particular states we want each quantum to express as a cubit. Even our most powerful supercomputers can only function as they do from the flow of electrons. Quantum computing theory needs to find ways around some pretty formidable obstacles, the foremost of which is to find a way to manipulate at the micro-level how nature expresses itself.
For my own part, I think quantum computers will necessarily require a CPU build very different from the linear and multi-stacked block which is the current configuration for classical computing. I envisage a cooled 3D ball lattice (envisage a multi-layered neuronal lattice, each node on the lattice a tiny switching magnet to use each magnet's brief magnetic field as a sensor) which is fully over-wrapped with a net membrane that acts as the classical interface for receiving signals from the 3D ball lattice wherein quantum states signal their configurations. The idea being that the signal of each individual quanta's state would need to be of sufficient energy strength to stimulate the layer of the lattice above it by altering each node's magnetic moment, fixing it into a brief configuration, that would equally stimulate the lattice layer above that, and so on until the signal - amplified at each layer reaches the wrap around membrane. This is how a quantum expressed signal reaches up to the classical level, by firstly capturing the signal and then amplifying it successively through the lattice layers.
The problem remains on how to manipulate each individual quantum into a desired state so that the quantum state expresses itself as a alpha-numeric meaning?
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
Then why are they allowed to sell it as such?
D-Wave’s flagship product, the 1000-qubit D-Wave 2X quantum computer, is the most advanced quantum computer in the world. It is based on a novel type of superconducting processor that uses quantum mechanics to massively accelerate computation
You'll note they didn't say 'quantum what'. It's a quantum annealer. Which is similar to a simulated annealer, except that it does the annealing with a qubit instead of an algorithm. And quantum annealers tend to ignore tiny high spots (razor blades) in your search space. But an annealer is a machine that looks for optimums in polynomials. It doesn't use superposition, which is what most people think of when they think of a quantum computer. And that's why they can't run Shor's.
the differences in lay terms
Along the same lines, I could call any device that depends on a quantum effect of some sort a 'quantum [blank]'. Say I wanted to build a small microwave emitter, like for a car radar jammer. I might use an Esaki diode. That also depends on tunneling, an effect that you couldn't easily build using a transistor, at least not that way. So I could call it a 'quantum jammer', which would be misleading but technically correct. One could also call some types of flash memory 'quantum memory' because they use tunneling to erase. But again, it would be misleading.
D-Wave use tunneling to do an annealing operation. So, yeah, technically it's "quantum" but again, a non-hype engineer would call it a quantum annealer and not quantum computation.
It'll only get worse when/if they get QDL to be cheap and effective over a bigger temp range, then you'll be on the borderline. QDL gates can be just like any other logic gate. But you can also have 'qubit operators' that are real qubits and not annealing qubits. So a QDL computer chip could just be way denser and faster than anything you can imagine, but also have a quantum coprocessor in that can do Shor's. The military would like that very very much. Hint.
edit on 3-9-2016 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
Then why are they allowed to sell it as such?
Even if someone tried to sue them, nothing would come of it because "puffery" is a perfectly legal method of making false claims, and they probably have lawyers reviewing their advertising claims to ensure the hyperbole doesn't exceed puffery.
originally posted by: Greggers
They are allowed to sell it as such because no one has sued them. And furthermore, it is highly unlikely anyone would sue them, as their chipset is very good at the task for which it was designed.
And yes, they do sell it as an annealer. That is the type of computation they sell it for.
Nobody can prove there aren't quantum effects being utilized in D-wave's computer, so that's why a lawsuit would fail. A more specific claim which is directly falsifiable would be required for false advertising lawsuit to succeed, like reporting twice the instructions per second the machine actually performed for example.
Advertisers try to persuade people to buy a product or service through various methods. A company may deliver an entertaining message about its product, compare the product to a similar item, list facts about the product, or make vague claims about the product which cannot be proved or disproved. This last method is known as "puffery" — the advertiser "puffs up" the product to seem like more than it is. Puffery is not illegal and is a common method used in advertising.
Proof and Puffery
The claims made by puffery may be false, but they are not really lies because no one can disprove them. No one can prove them either. A company may claim that its hamburger is the best hamburger in the world. No one can prove the hamburger is really the best, but no one can prove it is not.
Not only that, but customers paying 15-20 million dollars for a product tend to do some due diligence to know what they are getting, so they would likely see past the hype in the due diligence, know what they are getting and tend not to sue for that reason as greggers suggested.
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
originally posted by: SeaWorthy
Then why are they allowed to sell it as such?
Even if someone tried to sue them, nothing would come of it because "puffery" is a perfectly legal method of making false claims, and they probably have lawyers reviewing their advertising claims to ensure the hyperbole doesn't exceed puffery.
originally posted by: Greggers
They are allowed to sell it as such because no one has sued them. And furthermore, it is highly unlikely anyone would sue them, as their chipset is very good at the task for which it was designed.
And yes, they do sell it as an annealer. That is the type of computation they sell it for.
Nobody can prove there aren't quantum effects being utilized in D-wave's computer, so that's why a lawsuit would fail. A more specific claim which is directly falsifiable would be required for false advertising lawsuit to succeed, like reporting twice the instructions per second the machine actually performed for example.
Advertisers try to persuade people to buy a product or service through various methods. A company may deliver an entertaining message about its product, compare the product to a similar item, list facts about the product, or make vague claims about the product which cannot be proved or disproved. This last method is known as "puffery" — the advertiser "puffs up" the product to seem like more than it is. Puffery is not illegal and is a common method used in advertising.
Proof and Puffery
The claims made by puffery may be false, but they are not really lies because no one can disprove them. No one can prove them either. A company may claim that its hamburger is the best hamburger in the world. No one can prove the hamburger is really the best, but no one can prove it is not.
Not only that, but customers paying 15-20 million dollars for a product tend to do some due diligence to know what they are getting, so they would likely see past the hype in the due diligence, know what they are getting and tend not to sue for that reason as greggers suggested.
I agree on all points.
I actually have an interesting perspective on all this.
I work for a company that right now is taking moves to protect itself from an anticipated 500 million dollar lawsuit wherein we expect to be sued for intellectual property theft, even though my company helped develop the property in question AND even though the piece we are using is industry standard (as in, not a unique function of the property).
The company is protecting itself because it doesn't want to be in the position of having to prove the "borrowed" features are industry standard.. because you cannot expect a court to understand this stuff.
So, if something so trivial as proving a common feature is industry standard is viewed as problematic by the average legal team, there's no way any litigant would have any faith in their ability to prove the D-Wave isn't what they claim because the science involved is far too daunting.
edit
on 3-9-2016 by Greggers because: (no reason given)
edit on 3-9-2016 by Greggers because: (no reason given)
www.newscientist.com...
Another article on plans for a Quantum Computer that is under construction now.
Another article on plans for a Quantum Computer that is under construction now.
By Jacob Aron
SOMEWHERE in California, Google is building a device that will usher in a new era for computing. It’s a quantum computer, the largest ever made, designed to prove once and for all that machines exploiting exotic physics can outperform the world’s top supercomputers.
And New Scientist has learned it could be ready sooner than anyone expected – perhaps even by the end of next year.
The quantum computing revolution has been a long time coming. In the 1980s, theorists realised that a computer based on quantum mechanics had the potential to vastly outperform ordinary, or classical, computers at certain tasks. But building one was another matter. Only recently has a quantum computer that can beat a classical one gone from a lab curiosity to something that could actually happen. Google wants to create the first.
The firm’s plans are secretive, and Google declined to comment for this article. But researchers contacted by New Scientist all believe it is on the cusp of a breakthrough, following presentations at conferences and private meetings.
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