From Nothing to Nothing

originally posted by: Raggedyman

What makes you say suicide is punishable in hell
You atheists and your twisted views on what you have decided to believe
I guess once a good catholic boy, maybe even an alter boy as well

It's what many Christians will tell you. I've had them tell me the same too. Not all of them will say that but many of them do.

I've even been told that committing suicide is the one unforgivable sin that will automatically send you to hell. I don't remember the exact reasoning for it now but it's supposed to be like the ultimate "no no" as far as God is concerned.

Atheists have lot's of various views on things, you're correct. However, they're no more strange than any other persons beliefs. Some Atheists have very few or no beliefs at all even. Some have many beliefs. That's why I don't understand why so many people think all atheists think alike or should be grouped together all the time. The only thing in common by definition is their lack of belief in a God or Gods and that's all.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Since there is no after life, and "We" were just the result of some random cosmic genetic lottery. Are you comfortable with the concept that our consciousness came from nothing before we were born and that after our Deaths we will simply blink out and nothing more?

Completely fine with it. Wouldn't want to live forever anyway.

If so, Then, wouldn't you agree that our finite amount of time here could be said to be very special in that you are presently totally animated, aware of your surroundings, able to think about things beyond Earth and envision multi dimensions?

Yes I would agree.

If we were to eventually recreate that which we came from complete with all the supporting parameters wouldn't we then be 'The Creators" in a sense?

Sure we would, doesn't mean our creations should worship us like gods, we are fools for the most part.

a reply to: SLAYER69

If we were to eventually recreate that which we came from complete with all the supporting parameters wouldn't we then be 'The Creators" in a sense?

Not an atheist so I'll refrain from answering the question.

I will say this.
Shouldn't atheists and secular academics and scientists in general, be
somewhat uneasy with what they see everyday in their own chosen
occupation?

I mean it seems to me that's the ultimate goal of science. Mans attempt to replace the creator.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: SLAYER69
I will say this.
Shouldn't atheists and secular academics and scientists in general, be
somewhat uneasy with what they see everyday in their own chosen
occupation?

What do we see that would make us feel uneasy?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: SLAYER69
I mean it seems to me that's the ultimate goal of science. Mans attempt to replace the creator.

I was under the impression that the ultimate goal of science was to further our knowledge of the natural universe and quench our unending curiosity of the things around us?

originally posted by: randyvs

I will say this.
Shouldn't atheists and secular academics and scientists in general, be
somewhat uneasy with what they see everyday in their own chosen
occupation?

I mean it seems to me that's the ultimate goal of science. Mans attempt to replace the creator.

What is it you think they see everyday???

Science isn't an attempt to replace anything other than ignorance with understanding.

If Science found evidence for a Creator it would try to understand that Creator not replace it. You have a misunderstanding of what Science is about.

Science isn't trying to Prove the Ideology of Science. Religion tries to prove ideology. Science is just trying to understand what is correct.

a reply to: randyvs

Why should I as a scientist be uneasy with my profession? My job and the goal of science is most certainly not to replace any creator.

(a) Atheists (I'm not one. but I understand it) don't believe in a creator, thus they are not trying to replace ANYTHING
(b) The goal of science is to understand the measurable universe. Nothing more.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Raggedyman

What makes you say suicide is punishable in hell
You atheists and your twisted views on what you have decided to believe
I guess once a good catholic boy, maybe even an alter boy as well

It's what many Christians will tell you. I've had them tell me the same too. Not all of them will say that but many of them do.

I've even been told that committing suicide is the one unforgivable sin that will automatically send you to hell. I don't remember the exact reasoning for it now but it's supposed to be like the ultimate "no no" as far as God is concerned.

Atheists have lot's of various views on things, you're correct. However, they're no more strange than any other persons beliefs. Some Atheists have very few or no beliefs at all even. Some have many beliefs. That's why I don't understand why so many people think all atheists think alike or should be grouped together all the time. The only thing in common by definition is their lack of belief in a God or Gods and that's all.

So you are one of those who believes what you are told by anyone

Just asking?

a reply to: Raggedyman

No. I never said I believed it.

I'm just explaining where the idea probably came from.

I don't even believe in Hell, let alone what sins may get you there.

a reply to: mOjOm

What is it you think they see everyday???

Besides cloning, stem cell research and genetic manipulation off the top. All having been
described countless times, by other scientists even. As man playing God.

I mean come on.



The concept is really old and well known.

a reply to: SLAYER69

of course we'll become creators, we've always been. look at robotics and AI and computing and simulations, and all of what we've accomplished. eventually we'll create other beings, those beings will go on to create other beings, etc.

though i'm trying to figure out if you're also suggesting that if we become creators, it proves something created us.

a reply to: randyvs

I see what you're saying.

I suppose they might feel weird about it if they were a scientist who was also a very religious person at the same time. Which there are some of them out there.

Although depending upon how one interprets the scripture they may feel that is their duty to engage in those things. You know, having been given "dominion" over all the creatures of the earth and all and being made in his image and so forth. They may think we're long overdue for such tampering with Humanity and the Earth.

It all just depends since Religion is interpreted in wildly different ways without any method of finding which way is the correct way to interpret it.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Raggedyman

No. I never said I believed it.

I'm just explaining where the idea probably came from.

I don't even believe in Hell, let alone what sins may get you there.

So you just thought you would preach, encourage the belief?
You believe I believe that???
You kinda made out it was a christian thing, it was a fact, it was doctrine and yet, I am perplexed, why would you do that.
I guess Father Flanagan told you that and you just accepted it

Its not true and yet you...I dont get that at all.

a reply to: mOjOm

I'll agree.

a reply to: SLAYER69

I'm a person of Faith.

Not much point discussing anything with you then, is there?

Check your faith at the door if you want to have a meaningful conversation on this topic.

a reply to: Astyanax

I'm a person of a very different faith, and I manage to check that at the door to the lab everyday. Not every one can do it however. It also takes being open minded in BOTH directions.

I never understand why
(a) People "of faith" assume all Scientists are atheists
and
(b) WHy only these "atheists" need to be open minded.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

So you just thought you would preach, encourage the belief?

I wasn't preaching or encouraging anything. I was answering the question.

You believe I believe that???

No. I don't know what you believe.

You kinda made out it was a christian thing, it was a fact, it was doctrine and yet, I am perplexed, why would you do that.

I thought it was a Christian thing. That's where I heard it from. I thought I explained that.

I guess Father Flanagan told you that and you just accepted it

Who the hell is Father Flanagan??? I already said I don't believe in hell or how to get there.

Its not true and yet you...I dont get that at all.

I don't know what you're saying here.

a reply to: Raggedyman

According to my wife it's actually a Catholic thing. The reason is that you can't repent for what you've done if you're dead. So that's the reason why it's considered a mortal sin. It's irredeemable.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Raggedyman

According to my wife it's actually a Catholic thing. The reason is that you can't repent for what you've done if you're dead. So that's the reason why it's considered a mortal sin. It's irredeemable.

Maybe in Catholic circles, its not written so is assumed
It is way out of context in your post

Just seemed strange an non christian is adding, explaining christian doctrine and its not christian at all.

I guess I just wanted to hilight you dont know and should have not commented on what is not true, may have pressed you to hard but your comment was wrong, very wrong

The only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Spirit, somewhat different

Anyway, maybe I should have just pointed out your error

Wouldn't "You shall not kill" include oneself?

a reply to: Raggedyman

How is what I said out of context when I was answering the question you asked???

FYI this Non-Christian knows more than you think because in Catholic Doctrine it is a Mortal Sin. Catholics are considered Christians even though some Christians disagree and Christians aren't considered Catholic.

As far as highlighting how I don't know or should not have commented because it's not true, well it is true and there isn't some objective Truth to religion anyway. So there is nothing wrong with what I said.

Christian views on suicide

There has been much debate over the Christian view on suicide, with early Christians believing that suicide is sinful and an act of blasphemy. In modern times, some Christian churches reject this idea, although others still espouse and teach this view.
en.wikipedia.org...

I must not be too wrong since there is even a wiki page about exactly what I was saying.

and here's this...

In the sixth century AD, suicide became a secular crime and began to be viewed as sinful. In 1533, those who committed suicide while accused of a crime were denied a Christian Burial. In 1562, all suicides were punished in this way. In 1693, even attempted suicide became an ecclesiastical crime, which could be punished by excommunication, with civil consequences following. In the 13th century, Thomas Aquinas denounced suicide as an act against God and as a sin for which one could not repent.

So say what you want but I'm more right than you're willing to admit.