Definition of gender

a reply to: GreenGunther

You're mainly referring to sexual orientation, not necessarily gender or sex.

However, it's very apparent that it's far more than simply "trauma" that causes someone to be attracted to the same sex (or otherwise). We know this because the actual physical form of the brain in people who have sexual attractions that aren't heterosexual are different than those that are heterosexual.

A gay man has a brain similar to a heterosexual women, for instance. And a simply wack on the head or experience when they were younger cannot form these mutations. They were simply born gay.

a reply to: GreenGunther

You're mainly referring to sexual orientation, not necessarily gender or sex.

However, it's very apparent that it's far more than simply "trauma" that causes someone to be attracted to the same sex (or otherwise). We know this because the actual physical form of the brain in people who have sexual attractions that aren't heterosexual are different than those that are heterosexual.

A gay man has a brain similar to a heterosexual women, for instance. And a simply wack on the head or experience when they were younger cannot form these mutations. They were simply born gay.

Furthermore, we can treat trauma, because it's psychological.

We can't, however, use those same treatments on homosexuals because it's not psychological, it's biological

a reply to: Ghost147

Ever look into epigenetics?
Biology can be changed.

I believe their biology was changed in the first place through trauma.
And the longer trauma is left untreated the more lasting the effects.

Ever see what happens to feral kids? I remember one specifically who was brought up by dogs, she fully believed she was a dog, not knowing any better.
If you're raised by dogs, you are a dog - perhaps not the best analogy, but it shows how epigenetics and early development influence every faccet of an individuals life, even their biological nature.

If you haven't seen it, please watch - www.youtube.com...
It explains epigenetics and modern human behavior. It shows that no behavior can be claimed to be 'genetic'. Really good watch.

a reply to: Freija

Thank you so much for your post. It is valuable.

a reply to: Freija


If you remove the whole structure of society and place you naked in the african jungle; Are you male or female? Can you give birth to a child? What does your chromosomes tell?

What you think of yourself in society, is just you.. What you believe yourself to be, is just you.. To everyone else your still a male, doesnt matter what you wear or how you behave.. Just cause you dont want to fit in a stereotype, doesnt change any facts..

a reply to: GreenGunther

Ever see what happens to feral kids? I remember one specifically who was brought up by dogs, she fully believed she was a dog, not knowing any better.

Well no doesnt change their biological nature, it just changes the way they behave.. But feral kids are an awesome subject..

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Ghost147

Ever look into epigenetics?

Yes, it was one of the strongest topics within a thread of mine about questions regarding Evolution.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Ghost147
Biology can be changed.

Undoubtedly

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Ghost147
I believe their biology was changed in the first place through trauma.

Please elaborate one what you believe to be such 'trauma'

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Ghost147
Ever see what happens to feral kids? I remember one specifically who was brought up by dogs, she fully believed she was a dog, not knowing any better.
If you're raised by dogs, you are a dog - perhaps not the best analogy, but it shows how epigenetics and early development influence every faccet of an individuals life, even their biological nature.

No. Their biological nature hasn't changed what so ever. Epigenetics is the turning on and off of gene expression at a cellular cellular level as well as physiological phenotypic traits. None of this occurs in feral children. What does occur is certainly trauma and abuse, but the reason they are feral is due to psychology alone. They have experienced no enculturation, and their behaviour once found is the result of that.

In fact, there was one such case that was studied that showed two claimed feral children were simply born mentally and physically disabled, and then used as a promotional tool for a particular orphanage. The reason they know they were born that was is because of biological traits vs psychological ones. (link)

originally posted by: GreenGunther
If you haven't seen it, please watch - www.youtube.com...
It explains epigenetics and modern human behavior. It shows that no behavior can be claimed to be 'genetic'. Really good watch.

Zeitgeist.... seriously? How about some peer reviewed scientific journals.

Being "gay" or being "straight" is not a behavior. It's a biological trait.

To push the matter further, Epigenetics can have an effect on homosexuality, but not even remotely in a way that you're suggesting.

Women have two X chromosomes, one of which is "switched off". The inactivation of the X chromosome occurs randomly throughout the embryo, resulting in cells that are mosaic with respect to which chromosome is active. In some cases though, it appears that this switching off can occur in a non-random fashion. Bocklandt et al. (2006) reported that, in mothers of homosexual men, the number of women with extreme skewing of X chromosome inactivation is significantly higher than in mothers without gay sons. 13% of mothers with one gay son, and 23% of mothers with two gay sons showed extreme skewing, compared to 4% of mothers without gay sons.
link

You'll notice that the Epigenetic effect is on the mother, not the child, and certainly not after it is born.

Human sexual preference is a sexually dimorphic trait with a substantial genetic component (from the abstract of the last link)

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Freija
To everyone else your still a male, doesnt matter what you wear or how you behave.. Just cause you dont want to fit in a stereotype, doesnt change any facts..

NO.

Tikbalang, you don't get to dictate what everyone else is experiencing. Fukk man, you're arrogant? Did you read Freija's post?

"any facts", please define a fact for your own sake.

My opinion is, you need to upgrade.

a reply to: tikbalang

a reply to: menneni

I cant change anyones beliefs, im just stating a fact.. I can dictate someones experience, but i cant dictate what you fell.
Arrogant, oh yes.

What you believe and what nature defines is not the same thing.

Did i hurt someones feelings? Maybe, but if you are hurt by honest facts, then your opinions isnt based on a mature experience, its based on a childs mentality and ill treat you like one also.

a reply to: tikbalang

Well, kiddo, read my post again.

a reply to: menneni

Talk to the hand phrases seems like a mature way to start.. Isnt it better to try to state something other than an opinion?
What you believe, i can do nothing about.. If you believe in ghosts, demons, Aliens, Gods.. Its your experience of belief, not mine..

The person said;" I felt like a woman and became one " I said, " In society, yes.. In the "real" world, no.. Your defined by physical limitations, your fantasy is not..

a reply to: tikbalang

Believe.
Facts.
Real world.
Nature.

Let that sink, with your own words: "What you believe, i can do nothing about.. If you believe in ghosts, demons, Aliens, Gods.. Its your experience of belief, not mine.. "

THEN go and read my posts, again. Please try.

a reply to: menneni

Your Nordic try to behave like one.

Your not stating facts, your stating an opinion.

a reply to: tikbalang

You can come and see my stance man to man, no problem. Just u2u when you'll be coming around if you have an real issue with me.

I think you are not following through with our conversation. There is a treasure to be found in this thread, you just need to see it to recognize it.

First steps to follow through, define (public service, and for your own sake)

#1 NATURE,
#2 A FACT,
#3 THE REAL WORLD.

please!

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Freija

If you remove the whole structure of society and place you naked in the african jungle; Are you male or female? Can you give birth to a child? What does your chromosomes tell?

Well, I already said I couldn't gestate and I'm sure there are plenty of natal females out there that can't give birth that don't much appreciate you thinking of them as lesser women. I would have had babies if I could have. There are some disappointments in life I've just had to live with.

I'm nearly 62 years old and have never heard what my chromosomes had to say. Have you? Testing is expensive and I couldn't really care less about invisible microscopic things that have absolutely no affect on my daily life.

Put me naked anywhere and my body is outwardly completely female. The natives in the jungle will want to copulate with me which is fine because I'm fully sexually functional as a female and have been the vast majority of my life. I am divorced now but in 1984 I was married to a great guy for many years. He is still one of my best friends and I even like and get along well with his current wife.

What you think of yourself in society, is just you.. What you believe yourself to be, is just you.. To everyone else your still a male, doesnt matter what you wear or how you behave.. Just cause you dont want to fit in a stereotype, doesnt change any facts..

Well, I am sorry to burst your bubble dear but this simply isn't true. My long ago medical history is known to none save for a very small circle of intimate friends and former partners. "Society" doesn't have a clue I wasn't born and haven't always been female. I was never a normal boy and have never lived as or been a man.

Behind the anonymity of the internet and only within the ATS community, I have shared my history and my stories to help inform and educate others about people born like me and other than my advocacy for transgender children and their families, which again has only been done here, I am part of cis/hetero normative "society" just as much of you are and those are "the facts".

Obviously this is pretty hard to wrap your head around. Try opening your mind.

a reply to: menneni

You can come and see my stance man to man, no problem. Just u2u when you'll be coming around if you have an real issue with me.

Maturity ?

I will treat you as a kid, cause you are a kid.
What you believe is up to you, using fists wont make it into a fact.

Your a kid, that needs to grow up. You missed the part where i stated im a Mustalainen in your native tounge, so you know my stance on u2u.

a reply to: Freija

Its still your belief with opinions about you.. I cant change anyones belief, im stating fact, not stories..

a reply to: Freija

I can't thank you enough for your input.

a reply to: tikbalang

Read my posts, gypsie. I don't know what you're trying to imply with that Mustalainen = "being a gypsie"

Again, read my posts, EVERY ONE OF THEM.

AND PS. about you telling me "i know your stance about u2u", AS you are a gypsie, well, from my EXPERIENCE, you need to have so much buddies with you or you are #ting your pants wet.

Your people do not fukk with me. LOL, no.

EDIT: and if you don't get what i'm meaning: its that you're a pussy.

EDIT2: and i'm the cock