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Vladimir Putin: Forked Tongue on Syria?

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posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 12:05 PM
Interesting article on the website: Turkey to take more active role on Syria in next six months: PM

This article was written on August 20 and is a little perplexing.

Turkey will take a more active role in addressing the conflict in Syria in the next six months to prevent the war-torn country being divided along ethnic lines, Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yıldırım said on Aug. 20.

There are a lot of ethnic lines in Syria. The Turkish PM did not explain which ethnicities in particular he was talking about. Of course to speak of the Syrian "civil war" as an "ethnic" war is a little strange, to me at least. I grant that there is a religious component to the war. He must be talking about Syrian Kurds.

The way I see this conflict is that the Syrian civil war is the currently active portion of a very large American plan to destabilize and hopefully balkanize all of the important national entities in the region.

Thus, the creation of a Rojava/Kurdistan national entity in the "Kurdish Triangle" region of Syria, Iraq and Iran (and Turkey?) might be seen to be in American interests. Prevention of the creation of such an entity would be in the interest of all of the above mentioned countries plus Russia.

So, this attitude, expressed by the Turkish PM, Binali Yıldırım is clearly in line with Russian thinking on regional issues.

What comes next is a little perplexing.

Yıldırım also told a group of reporters in Istanbul that while Syrian President Bashar al-Assad could have a role in the interim leadership, he must play no part in its future.

"Turkey we will be more active in the Syria issue in the coming six months as a regional player. This means to not allow Syria to be divided on any ethnic base, for Turkey this is crucial," Yıldırım said, adding that Russia and the U.S. “sees that Assad can’t have a role in Syria’s future.”

“Whether we want it or not, Assad is an actor there. His counterparts are the opposition groups in Syria. It’s not possible for us to talk to Assad,” he added.

The question that comes to my mind is "Just who is being fooled in all of this?", Assad or Erdogan, because Assad seems to believe that he has the support of Vladimir Putin, at least in this interview.

This is the NBC interview with Bashar al Assad published on July 14, 2016:

Turkey, up until the recent, abortive coup attempt, had been playing a Turkish variation of NATO/America's game, i.e., use ISIS (and its predecessors among Syrian opposition groups) to wreck Syria and overthrow Assad enroute to balkanizing the country by helping to create a Kurdish national entity in preparation for what I think would be the next phase of American induced mayhem in the region, that being a move to make the Iranian province of Kordestan a part of this new national entity, by hook or by crook.

The American propaganda line is that taking out a Gaddafi or a Hussein or a Mubarak or an Assad is a simple change of leader and does not necessarily entail twenty years of internecine warfare in the countries involved. Sure. This has been the ostensible American policy line since at least 2001.

The Turkish Prime Minister tells the world that the United States, Russia and Turkey agree that Syria must not be broken up and that President Assad must go.

Very amusing. Very paradoxical. Very screwy.

What this all boils down to is, "What is the real Russian position?"

There is no doubt in my mind that the removal of Bashar al Assad and his Baath Party network will create Libyan style chaos in Syria.

I can't believe that either Russia or Iran would want such a thing.

I can believe that Russia has not forgotten those two jet fighters that Turkey shot down, on Erdogan's orders (?) on Gulenist Turkish military orders, as Erdogan says (?).

This current situation is a tight knot of conflicting interests and disguised intentions.
edit on 21-8-2016 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2016 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 12:21 PM
a reply to: ipsedixit

If you are not aware of this then this might be the answer to your question as to who ..How The Hasakah Clashes End Kurdish Nation Dreams

Seems that there is US troops stuck in eastern Allepo and US forces in Hasakah . They are advising their guys but there are no ISIS in these places . Turkey ,Iran ,Syria and Iraq does not want a Kurdish state so I cant see anyway out of this for the Kurds .They are a divided group and its not likely they will cut off their nose despite their face . My guess is that the EU/US showed them a carrot but will throw them under the bus shortly .

I found this from one of the comments at MOA very interesting .

William Blum, Killing Hope, Chapter 39 - Iraq 1972-1975 Covert action should not be confused with missionary work The Pike Report regarded this incident as an example of the apparent “no win” policy of the United States and Iran, The committee stated: The progressively deteriorating position of the Kurds reflected the fact that none of the nations who were aiding them seriously desired that they realize their objective of an autonomous state. A CIA memo of March 22, 1974 states Iran's and the United States' position clearly: “We would think that Iran would not look with favor on the establishment of a formalized autonomous government. Iran, like ourselves, has seen benefit in a stalemate situation ... in which Iraq is intrinsically weakened by the Kurds' refusal to relinquish [their] semi-autonomy. Neither Iran nor ourselves wish to see the matter resolved one way or the other.”[7] “This policy,” said the report, “was not imparted to our clients, who were encouraged to continue fighting. Even in the context of covert action, ours was a cynical enterprise,”[8] The day after the CIA memo referred to above, 23 March 1974, Soviet Defense Minister Andrei Grechko, who had befriended Barzani when the latter lived in the Soviet Union, arrived in Iraq to help the government reach a settlement with the Kurds. On the advice of Iran and the United States, however, Barzani refused to come to any terms.[9] Earlier that month, the Iraqi government had actually passed a law offering a limited amount of autonomy to the Kurds, but they had rejected that as well, whether or not at the request of their “allies” is not known. The congressional committee discovered that “The CIA had early information which suggested that the Shah would abandon the Kurds the minute he came to an agreement with Iraq over border disputes.” Agency documents characterized the Shah's view of the Kurds as “a card to play” in this dispute with Iraq. And a CIA memo characterized the Kurds as “a uniquely useful tool for weakening Iraq's potential for international adventurism”.[10] The last may have been a reference to Iraq signing a pact of Friendship and Cooperation with the Soviet Union in April 1972, under which it received military aid and granted the Soviet Navy certain port privileges. Then, in June, super oil-rich Iraq had nationalized the Western-owned consortium, the Iraq Petroleum Company (23.75 percent US), a move warmly applauded by the Soviets, after which the two countries proceeded to conclude a trade and economic accord.[11] As it was, it was oil that brought Iran and Iraq together. In 1973, the Shah wanted to strengthen Iran's position with the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), and a crucial part of the inducement to Iraq and other Arab neighbors was Iran's willingness to double-cross the troublesome Kurds.[12] None of these countries wanted their own minorities to be getting any ideas from a Kurdish success. It was not until March 1975 that the Shah was ready to make his move. Events moved swiftly then. The Shah met with the vice-president of Iraq and, by agreement, the Shah cut off all supplies to the Kurds, including the American part. The next day the Iraqis unleashed their biggest offensive ever. Several days later the stunned Kurds sent a desperate message to [243] (TOC) the CIA: “There is confusion and dismay among our people and forces. Our people's fate in unprecedented danger. Complete destruction hanging over our head. No explanation for all this. We appeal you and USG [United States government] intervene according to your promises.,.”[13] The same day, the Kurds appealed to Kissinger as well: Your Excellency, having always believed in the peaceful solution of disputes including those between Iran and Iraq, we are pleased to see that their two countries have come to some agreement ... However, our hearts bleed to see that an immediate byproduct of their agreement is the destruction of our defenseless people ... Our movement and people are being destroyed in an unbelievable way with silence from everyone. We feel your Excellency that the United States has a moral and political responsibility towards our people who have committed themselves to your Country's policy.[14] The hapless Kurds received no response to their pleas, from either the CIA or Henry Kissinger. By the end of the month their forces had been decimated. Several hundred Kurdish leaders were executed. In conclusion, the Pike report noted: Over 200,000 refugees managed to escape into Iran. Once there, however, neither the United States nor Iran extended adequate humanitarian assistance. In fact, Iran was later to forcibly return over 40,000 of the refugees and the United States government refused to admit even one refugee into the United States by way of political asylum even though they qualified for such admittance[15]. When Henry Kissinger was interviewed by the staff of the Pike Committee about the United States' role in this melodrama, he responded with his now-famous remark: “Covert action should not be confused with missionary work.”[16] [7] Pike Report, p. 214. [8] Ibid., p. 197. [9] New York Times, 12 February 1976, p. 3 1, column by William Safire. [10] Pike Report, p. 214, [11] New York Times, 1 June 1972, p. 1; 3 June, p. 1; 8 June, p. 69, [12] Ibid.,5 February 1976, p. 3 1 , column by William Safire. [13] Pike Report, pp. 198, 215. [14] Ibid., 215-216. [15] Ibid., p. 217. [16] New York Times, 12 February 1976, p. 3 1, column by William Safire; Pike Report, p. 19S, Kissinger is referred to as “a high U.S. official”.

edit on 21-8-2016 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 02:59 PM
a reply to: ipsedixit

Erdogan apologized for the jets, after a good six months of constant bombings which I suspect Russian intelligence and the Kurds had a part to play in, while conveniently blaming ISIS. No doubt they were involved in some, but I still believe a lot of it was consequences of the jet shot down by Russian intelligence and Kurds.

We also cannot forget that China has recently become involved under the guise of "humanitarian" mission. If China and Russia are both currently vested in Syria along with Iran and Turkey on the same side, what the heck is NATO going to do?? Its like the plan has gone ass backwards???

I think that the US hand is being kept close until post election. After the election I believe we will have some insight into just what is going on.

As far as Russia's plans? I am thinking that on top of holding on to their only Mediterranean port access, that maybe they intend to install some permanent air bases for future force projection capabilities. Maybe he intends on making Syria his Japan and fill it up with military bases once the ISIS threat has been eliminated.

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 03:12 PM
a reply to: AmericanRealist

turkey are on the united nations side, with the main aim to remove assad, turkey's other motive is to eradicate the kurds.
russia are on their own trying to bomb out the 'moderate terrorists' the un supports.
iran dosent have much involvement outside of iraq.
nobody quite knows what china will do other than the humanitarian drops they propose, their relationship with moscow is frosty, and the republic of china still isnt a full member of the united nations.

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 03:23 PM
a reply to: stinkelbaum

What? China is a member of the permanent security council. Thats about as full of a member as you can be within the UN.

Turkey's motives have changed recently though, and it seems they have grown closer to Russia in the last month, even though they are still part of NATO. I think Erdogan is being played by both sides, and suspect he will have an unfortunate change in his status by 2020.

I know i sounds outlandish, but for the top 3 empires on Earth to all currently have a stake in Syria right now today, tells me there is something inside of Syria that we re not being told. Although, yes the nation is in a very complicated situation, it seems strange that 3 different powers are there competing to shape its future.

My theories go as far fetched as:
Star Gate, Alien technology, newly discovered ancient history (maybe the Ark of the Covenant?) , a biological threat currently undisclosed, and even possibly a breach from another dimension.

OR, the other two powers simply finally stood up and had enough with Western expansionism/interventionism ??? It is just damned strange for all 3 of them to be involved there, and they are growing increasingly close to hitting one another.

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 03:49 PM
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Thanks for the post. It makes pretty grim reading.

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 04:06 PM
a reply to: stinkelbaum

Don't be too surprised if Turkey stops being a patsy for the west and becomes part of a bigger plan .

More than five years into Syria’s civil war, Turkey, the country that has most helped the rebellion against the rule of Bashar al-Assad, has hinted it may move to normalise relations with Damascus. The suggestion made by the Turkish prime minister, Binali Yıldırım, on Wednesday, stunned the Syrian opposition leadership, which Ankara hosts, as well as regional leaders, who had allied with Turkey in their push to oust Assad over a long, unforgiving war. “I am sure that we will return [our] ties with Syria to normal,” he said, straying far from an official script that has persistently called for immediate regime change. “We need it. We normalised our relations with Israel and Russia. I’m sure we will go back to normal relations with Syria as well.”

The shooting down of the russian jet were turks in the west and not the Kurds .They could have been part of a covert CIA/Gulen/NATO operation . The failed coup changes everything but will take a week or two as we see more info being made public . I had looked for a different link that was info within the past week of the Turkish intelligence making the trip to talk to Asaud's people . The big news will be when we see the Chinese setting up operations on the ground . They might just be on the border with Iraq and Iran and Syria . If that happens the thought of a Kurdish state falls fast .

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 04:11 PM
a reply to: AmericanRealist

I think a lot of this trouble is "reactive" and the thing being reacted to is American strategic thinking of the "grand chessboard" variety.

I started a couple of threads on this subject that suggested that the Americans were trying to destabilize all of the Muslim national entities in the region, including Iran. I think some kind of "high concept" plan was devised by the US and Israel , in the person of the numerous dual Israeli/American citizens who are neocons and who have a lot of influence on US foreign policy, to pursue a mutually advantageous strategy that would lead to the formation of a Kurdish state that would have a common border with an enlarged Azerbaijan, this coming at the expense of Iran.

I think the countries in the region do not want this. It is a hair brained scheme, but it does have some merit if one ignores history and just focuses on the distribution of Azeris and Kurds living in Iran.

The Kurds, as is well known, are the largest ethnic group on the planet without their own nation state. They number around 30 million. Azerbaijan, conveniently, is a close ally of Israel and an enemy of Iran.

People hate it when Israel is "dragged" into this sort of speculation and "blamed" for causing all sorts of trouble, but when a sequence of events unfolds that is incredibly "unnatural" and even contraindicated by what would make policy sense for anyone involved, but Israel, one is simply overwhelmed and dragged kicking and screaming to a logical conclusion.

Incidentally, I see no sign that either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will alter the American course once in office.
edit on 21-8-2016 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 04:27 PM
a reply to: ipsedixit

Just dropping this link that has some thoughts on the situation . Kurdish Terrorists Annex More Territory in Hasaka, Syria? Did the US Enforce a No-Fly Zone to Enable Annexation? :+blogspot/OUjWN+(Penny+for+your+thoughts)

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 04:38 PM
a reply to: the2ofusr1

I'll check the link out.

The Americans, at this point, are all but involved in an open war with Syria. They have troops on the ground there and are flying bombing sorties in support of the Syrian opposition. They have said that they will defend their special forces units if they come under Syrian fire. Unlike the Russian forces, who were invited into the country by the Assad government, the elected government of Syria, the Americans are in the country illegally.

This story gives some insight and probably explains any accusations that Syrian forces are targeting their own citizens.

Several hundred vehicles containing 100 to 200 ISIL Takfiri militants were given safe passage by US-based forces, out of the northern Syrian city of Manbij, after surrendering their weapons, according to defense officials.

US Army Col. Carver, a spokesman for the US-led coalition fighters, told Pentagon reporters the decision to let ISIL convoys leave the city was made by commanders of the so-called Syrian Democratic Force, Russia Today reported.

Col. Carver described how ISIL had civilians in each of the vehicles, and the military wanted to avoid casualties. He didn’t know how many of the civilians had been in the cars voluntarily but said some were likely hostages.

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 05:18 PM
a reply to: ipsedixit

That story sounds like BS because if they surrendered their weapons then given safe passage out of the town ,why didn't they make sure the hostages were not freed ? The wests narrative to all of the stories surrounding syria and ISIS is completely falling apart . I suspect the next big move will be made at the UN diplomatically . The UN will have to listen to a Turkey/Syria/Iran/Iraq/Russian plea . The US along with Turkey didn't want the Kurds involved in talks earlier but times have changed and are changing quite rapidly . For the US to say that Syria is not allowed to operate within their own country is just ridiculous to the enth degree and they know it .

posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 06:41 PM
Putin is not stupid and one can see it how he successfully passed on to USA a marginal pseudo Kurdish group as " The Great Kurdish Hope " against ISIS .

I ask myself ; " How come the mobile phones of these pseudo Kurds originate from Armenia " ?

Who controls Armenia ?

Putin is not strictly speaking a European/Western Man , is he ?

No he is more , he seems himself as a Eurasian first and upmost .

So does Erdogan hence you have Russia - Turkey - Iran decidedly pushing the USA - UK out of Mesopotamia and Middle East on the whole .

Turks & Russians intermarry all the time and people's of both countries actually get on naturally ; Eurasian Mentality shows up.

Something that the USA - UK was not prepared for it .

Erdogan was not prepared to be excluded from all the important contracts .

After all he has provided what was asked of him in Libya and got no contracts also he got burnt Commercially in Eqypt and decided to fight back in Syria .

Syria , Libya and Eqypt was in Ottoman Empire and Erdogan is being pushed into the role of Caliph by pressure from 1.7 million muslims which he gladly accepts .

You see , United Nation has no Permanent Muslim or Hindu members and thus by virtue UN is not truely democratic .

Erdogan's slogan is " World is bigger than five " :

and also he already declared his intentions :

This is the Global Erdogan Appeal which the Western MSM utterly ignores ;

Here is a bit of real Irony ; Erdogan is calling for a more Democratic and more Accountable United Nations by way of demolishing the Security Council's Permanent Membership structure .

Something better , something more representative , more egalatarian ; World's future can't be confined to the whims of these 5 nations says Erdogan .

I agree with him .

Erdogan is the Leader of Muslims and he has the most popular appeal to 1.7 billion people ; he'll free them from usury and emperialism .

I have a friend who is a Ghanian Prince ; I asked his father for Gold Mining Rights and he said Germans own it .

Erdogan's promise is popular because it is truth ; more democratic UN would work for all not just few .

Putin also agrees with the notion that UN has to get more democratic and so does China .

Frenchies will come along shortly too .

Now this is my perspective and my Clan lived around Mesopotamia , Anatolia and Caucasia since time immorial .

USA + UK will not control diddly squat in the Eastern Med .

Turks rather share it with Israel , thank you very much .

posted on Aug, 22 2016 @ 09:22 PM
a reply to: 23432

You should offer yourself for the position of Caliph. With more than 5 million stars on 1800 posts you can't lose.

posted on Aug, 23 2016 @ 03:35 AM
a reply to: ipsedixit
Yea Erdogan sucks. But I admit, the thought of expanding the perm security council as appealing. May help to resolve many of our complaints on foreign policy issues.

In any case, it looks like the Pentagon has all but officially declared the open start of WW3.

US Dispatches F-22 Stealth Fighters to Intercept Syrian Aircraft. When pushed further about Russia, Pentagon spokesman, Peter Cook, made it clear that the US would make the same aggression against Russian jets who are operating legally with the Syrian government’s approval and coordination.“If they threaten US forces, we always have the right to defend our forces,”

Well there you have it. The official "# hits fan" declaration as bold and visible for all to see. Looks like there is just something about Syria that has made it worth a global conflict.

posted on Aug, 23 2016 @ 07:20 AM

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: 23432

You should offer yourself for the position of Caliph. With more than 5 million stars on 1800 posts you can't lose.

edit on 23-8-2016 by 23432 because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 23 2016 @ 10:41 AM
Kurds might be the lost tribe of Israel.
edit on 23-8-2016 by Xeven because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 23 2016 @ 11:17 AM
a reply to: AmericanRealist

I think the F22 and the US kind of put them in a situation where the diplomatic side to this conflict at the UN might just be in Putins court . His next move will set the stage as to the direction this goes . Oh and this is a good post to read to factor in some of what is going on . There are so many little things that can be so big in the larger picture .

Aleppo prepares for a major battle and the Kurds in Syria are attracting everybody’s animosity.

posted on Aug, 23 2016 @ 01:45 PM

Kurds of Batman singing " I'll die for you Turkey " .

Kurds are not without memory and will remember who sold them down the river for a long time come .

posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 05:24 PM
I've been saying for a while now that I think America wants to facilitate the creation of a Kurdish national entity in the "Kurdish Triangle" area.

The American Vice President made some interesting comments during his current (?) visit to Turkey. 45_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_turkey-340am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Biden made it clear that the United States supports the Turkish presence in Syria. He delivered a blunt warning to the Kurds that the United States will not tolerate the creation of a separate Kurdish entity in northern Syria.

“No [Kurdish] corridor. Period. No separate entity on the border. A united Syria,” he said at a joint press conference with Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim.

Biden also warned that unless the Kurds comply with a prior agreement with the United States to withdraw from the Syrian town of Manbij after capturing it, they will no longer receive U.S. support.

“They cannot, will not, and under no circumstances will get American support if they do not keep that commitment. Period,” he said.

These statements indicate to me that the Americans would like things to settle down a little in the aftermath of the coup attempt in Turkey. They are taking the trouble to make a show of solidarity with the Erdogan government.

One must remember that the United States and Turkey, up until relatively recently, very recently in Turkey's case, have been facilitating the operations of ISIS in Syria. There are those, including members of the Turkish government, who believe that the Americans were involved in the attempted coup.

These two nations are no longer friends.

In tightening the choke chain on the Syrian Kurds, the Americans have appeared to act to slow, even stop the movement toward the formation of a Kurdish State.

Caveat!! Remember we are dealing with the ultra devious Obama Administration here, not the galumphing, "all American", "Sound the reveille!", "Roll out the armor!", "Run up the flag!", "Mow the lawn at Arlington and order the tombstones!" Bush Administration.

I have to ask myself, despite Vice President Biden's stern refusal of support for the Syrian Kurds if they step out of line and don't hop, skip and jump when told to do so, what is the likely effect of his words on the squabbling, infighting Kurdish factions in the greater "Kurdish Triangle" going to be?

Do you think there is any chance that they might just decide to forget their differences and make an effort to get along with one another and pool their resources and tune their agenda? It's certainly a possibility.
edit on 24-8-2016 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 09:24 PM
a reply to: ipsedixit

Too many scenarios at present to know what the back channels have in mind . Russia ,Iran and Syria were quite silent on Turkey moving into Syria . Turkey could be doing Syria a favour for the moment and will leave when things become stabilized . It may have been at Russias request to show that they are willing to work in a new direction while being a bit covert to the west . Poor Kurds must be feeling a little betrayed as the US gave them cover .

The main part now is Aleppo . If the guns and fighters keep flowing then it will take a few more months there but if Turkey is going to really side with Syria then it will be only weeks . A very big question in my mind is China and just what they are going to bring to the show .

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