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Identity Politics

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posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 04:10 PM

originally posted by: projectvxn
No one owes you #. You aren't entitled to anything you didn't earn, and if you don't work, YOU DON'T EAT.


Of course bristling and growling from the "but, but, but life owes me XYZ because I exist" whining useless leech crowd will be a short term outcome of the glorious day when America fully embraces the glory of individual responsibility again. The beauty of it all is that it is a self correcting problem.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 04:32 PM
a reply to: projectvxn

I would recommend you search google for "is wealth finite". You'll be surprised at what you find.

Wealth is finite, but not fixed - it grows with innovation, productivity gains, and population growth.

I said wealth is finite, you said google it, i did, and it says wealth is finite.

A money supply backed by a resource like gold is finite. There is only so much gold and money is bound. If You think this new economic direction of the monetary is "Worthwhile Development" your delusional. If you dont then you agree infinite wealth is a concept to empower the rich and it destroys the economy, because that is what has happened.

Your oversimplification of our economics issues does not at all reflect reality.

Your right I am not an economic expert and you probably are'nt either. But the best way to see if a system works is to look around you years after it has been implemented. I am, The world #ing sucks.

The war on the gold standard = Depressions, recessions, unstable inflation and deflation. Devaluation. A system built on debt spiraling out of control.
The war on drugs = more drug users and criminal activity than ever
The war on terrorism = Started by terrorists creating even more terrorism
The war on poverty 1960's = Poverty worse than ever, Statistics increasing. American black familys most notably.

THE SYSTEM DOES'NT WORK. Keep voting and slaving away at those jobs though. I am sure the next idea thought up will be the one that works....

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 04:43 PM
a reply to: burdman30ott6

whining useless leech crowd

Define that, otherwise your just a generalising dick. I know many people who take individual responsibility, work all week, live in # holes eating cheap food worrying about bills. Individual responsiblity is'nt going to help them when its legal for companies to pay you jack # and call it a fair wage while they pay millionairs, multiple millions every year for aparently doing about 4000x the work.

And what about those who there is no work for. I love it when morons says "You just have to get a job and everythings solved". Well sorry to burst your bubble but there is a deficency In Slave pens available. So what about the ones who cant have a go on the game of musical chairs? Are they not taking rsponsibility for themselves or are they part of a society that ensures personal responsiblity is impossible for some. Bearing in mind that everyone in the world could be equally motivated, equally hard working, and there would still be jobless, homeless, starving individuals. The only ones without jobs who would'nt be included would be criminals. And thats just the western worlds.

And that is another issue entirely. People hate on criminals and Im not blaming them, But there would be alot more poor people and homeless people without crime. So what happens to that person. There is no job for him, committing crime is obviously illegal, and few people will help him cause being poor and homeless is almost a crime. But as you said it will all sort itself out lol....

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 04:52 PM
a reply to: WanderingNomadd

Once again you are displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of modern economics.
The Pie Metaphor

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 05:32 PM
a reply to: projectvxn

Right I understand the basic concept even if the person writing it is biased and presenting an opinion not just facts. But for everyone to have a fair quality of life they must basically be selling some kind of individually created product.

So who is going to do the work if everyone is out there creating ideas? And those people left to do the work, which is the part that makes the products without which no amount of sitting in an office marketing will help sell, are stuck in a crap quality of life. My issue is this "created wealth" Is managed in a way that the low level workers are paid a pitance and the higher level workers are paid RIDICULOUSLY High amounts. They don't do 4000x the work so in this effort = wage society there is something wrong there.

Its rich people looking out for rich people. Ensuring the poor are kept poor. You can debate this, You can post 100 different links of economists telling me something different but thats how this works.

Hours are getting longer, The work load is increasing, the wages are remaining low, prices are going up. thats not creating new wealth, thats keeping profits high or making them higher at the expense of others. Thats why people say the distribution of wealth is unfair, not because someone had a good idea and did well for themselves.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 05:37 PM
a reply to: WanderingNomadd

You can't guarantee outcomes.

All you can do is allow people to pursue opportunity.

Don't give me defeatist BS about there not being any either. I know for a fact there are plenty of opportunity for those who seek it.

Life is not inherently fair and never was. Likewise not all take advantage of opportunities presented to them.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 05:49 PM
a reply to: WanderingNomadd

Don't insult peoples' intelligence by calling "no jobs I'm willing to do" "no jobs out there." There are absolutely jobs, and there would be many more of them if the union crowd hadn't made such insane demands that the production sector fled for foreign soils years ago.

This world doesn't owe you a job, a handout, a meal, it doesn't owe you a goddamned thing, simply because you exist, friend. Don't like they pay you're offered? Better yourself and seek a higher paying position. Don't like the fact that the only obvious jobs available to you are "beneath you?" Either lower your own imagined elevated status, move to somewhere that has a job you want, or continue not working and simply don't eat or have life handed to you.

I work for a living, friend. I signed up to support myself and my family, THAT'S IT. If John Q. Public won't put in the effort to earn their way in this life, it ain't my bitch, man. I never signed up to feed the hungry and clothe the poor from the product of my time, my blood, and my sweat. Frankly the idea of the population reduction that would occur if we'd quit meddling with nature's way and let social Darwinism run it's natural course is far more tenable and logical than the path we're rapidly heading down in which the load those of us actually working have to bear becomes so great we all just say screw it and wait for someone else to take care of us, too.

Where would we be then? There's a good reason babies and toddlers aren't put in charge of daycare centers.

ETA: Whining useless leech crowd consists of anyone who sits on their ass whining about their income levels while simultaneously milking the outdated entitlement system that takes earnings from those putting forth the most effort and redistributes them to those taking far, far more than they've ever given. Simple truth: I've reached a point in life where I see that the world is comprised of people useful to life and people useless to life... nobody paying taxes, driving commerce, or producing something of value is useless, but those taking taxes, only driving commerce by robbing Peter to pay Paul, and not producing any tangible value are the epitome of useless.
edit on 18-8-2016 by burdman30ott6 because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 06:17 PM
a reply to: projectvxn

The only Bull# here is yours.

You can't guarantee outcomes.

They knew the outcome, they just didnt care because it did'nt affect their motives.

I know for a fact there are plenty of opportunity for those who seek it.

Well you need to present this fact because the current statistics state there is less work available then there is people. But I am guessing from that statement you know every opportunity in every country and have performed adanvanced mathematics to link them to the number of people, accounting for skill sets and location. So please share that with the world.

Life is not inherently fair and never was. Likewise not all take advantage of opportunities presented to them.

Your right. You could compare it to a card game. Your not going to win everytime, Your hands wont always be great, but if someones cheating then your definately going to lose.

So what about banks. Some of the richest people in the world by far? Whats their product.....Printing Money and Debt....Smells like Bull# to me.

Sounds like your just repeating certain rhetoric. You don't seem to have an original thought on the matter. My opinions and views come from my own experiences and what I know and see around me.

The society we live in is diseased. You got familys out there struggling to get by when years ago you could support a bigger family with only one person working. I doubt the standard of living was great but still, possible.

Your failing to acknowledge the fact that people ARE working harder, They ARE Working for less, They ARE working longer hours, Prices ARE Going up. So where does your logic of work hard and your be fine end? Theres only 1 or 2 days left in the week for most of these people. Prices carry on going up and wages staying down eventually they will be working 7 days a week. Then what? I don't know how good your maths is but once your working 7 days a week the last thing left is to stop sleeping.

You can spout "creation of wealth" as much as you want but its hard workers that help push these ideas into fruition. These same hard workers are getting bent over and screwed. But they dont deserve a fair share, they are not legally appointed a fair share, and the majority of companies have no wish to impart a fair share. Profits, Profits, Profits. Cant buy all those mansions if your employees get a pay rise.

Your ideology leads to people sacrificing more of there time and effort for less and less income. Whereas mine keeps everything the way it is. Money is just taken from places of excess, where it has no need to be other than greed, Appointed CEO' are not working 4000x harder than the guy doing all the paperwork, they just decide how much they deserve and, would you believe it, its ALOT.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 06:28 PM
a reply to: WanderingNomadd

Your ideology leads to people sacrificing more of there time and effort for less and less income.

You don't work, you don't eat.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 06:29 PM
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You gave an interesting response on what happened to me today. I was rebuilding a fence with a heat index of about 104 degrees. My next door neighbor had a crew mowing his yard which is a weekly event. One of the young men came back to his truck close to me and was trying to restart the weed eater. After about 15 tries, he said out loud, "I hate this F***** job. I didn't go to college to mow yards." I said, "Yes, you did." He looked at me curiously and I politely explained it to him. I told him he was covered in sweat, hot and tired, at a job he hated and was making less money than he thought deserved. I then told him he was paying his dues by investing "sweat equity" into his life. By performing these hard, unpleasant and basically meaningless jobs, he would better appreciate what was coming for him later in life. By doing this menial hard work for someone else, he would become more appreciative of others' hard work. He would become a better man, employee, employer, husband and father later in life. I told him to look at this as his continuing education...of life itself.

Or, you can just sit around with your computer and bitch about life. The choice is always yours.

edit on 18-8-2016 by atrollstalker because: I had to sweat it out to get it right.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 06:35 PM
a reply to: projectvxn

Notice there's no complaint about other people sacrificing more of their time, effort, and earned money to provide a system in which those no taking personal responsibility can afford to leisurely put in less and less effort?

Typical attitude seen in today's atmosphere of entitlements.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 06:57 PM
a reply to: burdman30ott6

There are absolutely jobs

Enough for everyone..No.

This world doesn't owe you a job, a handout, a meal, it doesn't owe you a goddamned thing, simply because you exist, friend

By that logic we should be encouraging crime amongst those poor and/or homeless then? The world owes you what you get from your own labour right, Well stealing cars is still work by definition. So is bulgary, robbery, fraud etc... And no one owes YOU safety so what right would you have to complain that someone stabbed you and took your stuff, Thats your fault for not defending yourself properly. You can create laws but no one OWES you there obeidience. You can send people to prison but they dont OWE you there cooperation. Is a mass murderer ethicly wrong by this standard? He wanted to kill you all, He put in the work to achieve this. He does'nt OWE you mercy, love or respect for your life. He Does'nt OWE you a goddamned thing right?

The above may be ludicrous but it fits what you said perfectly. You want an unjust, uncaring society prepare for a #ing nightmare my friend.

You want to get techincall about entitlement the planet is the best example. You may build and own a house but who said you could have the land underneath it? You didnt create it, you didnt build it. People stole it and then sold it to you. Don't talk to me about entitlement when the whole concept of society is built upon the premise of "Im entitled to this planet more than you are because I killed for it and stole it".

I've reached a point in life where I see that the world is comprised of people useful to life and people useless to life... nobody paying taxes, driving commerce, or producing something of value is useless

Interesting topic lets move on to that following the line of entitlement. Why am I paying taxes for things I dont use? Why are people who drive, people who use schools and have children who go to schools. Who go to public doctors and healthcares, public dentists, public hospitals. Use librarys etc etc... Entitled to my money? I dont have kids why am I paying for yours to go to school. Not my problem right? Thats yours. "Well you have to pay taxes as your apart of society"....Bollocks I dont use any of your # and If I do I pay for it anyway. I dont get free bus rides I pay for them, Same with trains. I dont want to walk on your path but you put it on my earth so thats your fault. I go to book stores and buy books and If i want internet on the move I go to cafes and buy a drink and lunch.

Dont preach to me about entitlement when everyone thinks they are entitled to my money to pay for their kids education and their #ing roads. Its my planet as much as everyone elses, If im born somewhere I am from there. If i use your crap Ill pay for it, if not stop thinking your entitled to my money. That again fits into your logic right? So what you don't agree with this I bet but you will probably defend what you said anyway? "Yeah but it doesnt apply to what you said because blah blah..." No it fits in perfectly, No one is entitled. You get what you earn and you pay for what you use, simples.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 06:58 PM
a reply to: projectvxn

Lol okay...Your ignoring the issue with that so may aswell end the debate.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 07:01 PM
a reply to: WanderingNomadd

You're not saying anything new or novel worth responding to.

It's more useless eater rhetoric.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 07:12 PM
a reply to: WanderingNomadd

1. Who said I looked to laws or police for protection and safety? The SCOTUS already deemed years ago that LEOs have no mandate to defend private lives or property. If we were to switch to a system by which committed crimes were not investigated and prosecuted, OK... vigilante justice isn't very civilized, but it works pretty well.

2.Land ownership is an illusion anyway. By no logic whatsoever can you have a system in which something is outright "owned" yet force people to pay taxes to retain it and, should an agency deem the land desirable for some other project, force you to hand over ownership of it to the government. That's not ownership.

3. You don't pay for my children to attend school, I don't use public transportation, I drive a gas hogging SUV that I pay more than most in fuel taxes that go to sustain roads (even though most of my driving time is spent on unmaintained goat trails out in the middle of the Alaskan nowhere.), pay property taxes even though my kids aren't benefiting from them, haven't personally been to a doctor in near 8 years and when my family goes I pay at a rate roughly 20-times what the actual cost should be because that's how the system makes up for freebie care of those *ahem* "unable" to pay, want to spitball any other out there for me?

Like I said earlier, it's time for humanity to allow nature to take its course.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 07:29 PM
a reply to: projectvxn

Lol your the one without an original opinion based in fact.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 07:35 PM
a reply to: burdman30ott6

My post wasnt directed at you, Just in the same way I assumed your post wasnt directly referencing me because I work.

Well when you elaborate across multiple subjects we seem to share alot of similar views so there is nothing to debate here really. I believe In less laws and restrictions and self government, self preservation.

At the same time I care about other people. Mainly homeless and poor people regardless of how they got there. still though thats cause I was there years ago. Small communities are the best form of soceity in my opinion. If there is a homeless person in your tiny village and someone has a room, stick him in there and get him to do your chores in exchange for that and food...problem solved.

posted on Aug, 18 2016 @ 09:58 PM
a reply to: projectvxn

Too many failed policies that were not viable in
the first place are found to be propped up by
this very bad thing, identity politics.

Looking at Hollywood, and all of its stars
thinking they have some clout to add to
a politician and policy, because they are a
famous actor. No need to name names,
its all there for the looking.

But, the dangerous thing is it does work
to a certain, and large enough degree.

Great thought here, thank you for bringing the discussion....

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