Can you get into Heaven through numerous different religious beliefs?

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: glend

There is one author of John, it's the apostle John. Written sometime around 95 AD while he was a prisoner on the isle of Patmos.

Do you literally just believe everything the "Church" says, because that's just the traditional view, nobody knows for a fact who wrote Apocalypse of John. Pseudepigrapha is a fact of life, nobody wants to read the Apocalypse of Jim Smith so you use a famous name and boom, it's scripture.

Literally almost every OT book is pseudepigraphal and I see no reason to suspect the same thing not being true for the New Testament.

They were all names given by the church of Rome, most of Paul's epistles were written by Romans and not by Paul.

Hell my Bible even admits this in the commentary and it's a Catholic Bible.

They really are the originators of Christianity and they produced the New Testament in its current form and destroyed the original writings that would have been in Aramaic.

You will never know who wrote what, it's just tradition to say John wrote Apocalypse.

There is probably 3 times the amount of Apocrypha than Canon which tells me Christianity hates books.

it tells me Christianity has a great deal of respect for books and we want to make very sure we are using the right ones. Questioning a book's bona fides is not the same as burning or outlawing same.

originally posted by: ElGoobero

There is probably 3 times the amount of Apocrypha than Canon which tells me Christianity hates books.

it tells me Christianity has a great deal of respect for books and we want to make very sure we are using the right ones. Questioning a book's bona fides is not the same as burning or outlawing same.

I have to disagree, it is more like the books that are called Apocryphal just don't suit the needs of the organized church and you can not learn anything by not reading but you sure CAN learn something if you do.

Either way it is just a matter of ease, you don't read what your told is not scripture because someone decided for you what was (scripture). You either obey or you say " you know what, no". I will decide what I read and believe and not some corrupt ancient council.

If God wanted the Apocrypha gone and not read you wouldn't have the opportunity to read it. But you do have the opportunity and don't read it because either you don't like to read or you put your faith in mens decisions.

Either way you lose as the Apocrypha are full of Wisdom.

a reply to: midicon
I hope to supernaturally be zooming at speeds faster than light from one super nova to the next and then off to see a few black holes, and then take a gander at some distant nebula. All without a starship or the need for any thing, praising God for his wonderful creation.

a reply to: teapot

You're right, it is a hard path. Here's a "dream" / "vision" that I had during one of my "just do it" times when I lived as a saint in thought, word and deed. A few months here, a few months there, very difficult to sustain for long in our day and age. After a few weeks my "dreams" changed and what I consider an angel guided me with very interesting lessons. Here's one of the lessons:

"Fasting for a day a week, following my list, I noticed that I no longer craved new clothes, jewelry of any kind, no more murder programs on TV, etc..etc..I just didn’t feel that I needed all those “things” to have a good life. I also noticed that as I looked into people’s eyes that it was very clear to me where they were coming from.

Then my dreams started to change in a very interesting way:

I was swimming in a very large lake racing for the shore. Around me I noticed that there were many other racers in the water (15 or so). Stopping for a minute, looking up and around to see where I was I saw brewing storm clouds coming up behind us (bubbling and black, moving fast). Looking towards the shore I could see a large steep hill sloping down to the water with a very narrow beach. The beach was not sand; it was instead very rocky and very narrow and was butted up against the cliff/hillside.

Up on the shore there was a man dressed in sweats and a baseball cap blowing a whistle and waving us in, the storm was getting closer. Pushing on, the other swimmers and I made it up onto the beach. They then ran to the bottom edge of the cliff and started climbing up a path that I hadn’t noticed.

Stepping carefully I climbed the steep path up to the main trail at the top of the cliff edge. The Old Man held out his hand and helped me up the last steep bit. I hadn’t recognized him in the sweats and cap, he just winked at me and told me that we still had to get to the top of the hill where there was a cabin, it would shelter us from the storm, quick hug and then he said hurry now, must hurry.

Around me I saw that the other swimmers were bending down putting on shoes to protect their feet from the rocky path and looking around I saw that I didn’t have any. Oh, well, I thought, I can make it without shoes, I’ll just keep going. The wind was whipping up the dirt from the path, and the clouds were almost to us as the others jogged up the hill toward the top. Running for a few seconds I realized that my feet would be cut to ribbons, at this point of the path the stones were like sharp stakes sticking up out of the ground, crystalline stakes.

While I was thinking about what to do the Old Man came up to me and said, “Move along, we must hurry now.” I told him about the shoe situation and he said not to worry he’d help me. Reaching down to the dirt of the path he brushed away at the soil with his hand. Underneath was a piece of metal, the same color as the path, (it looked like a piece of metal from a beige filing cabinet) He finished brushing away the soil and told me to put my foot on it. Doing so he then folded up the edges into a boxy shaped shoe around my foot, and then he started brushing the soil from the path to form a second shoe for me.

“How come the others have nice shoes and I have to wear these clunky ones?” I asked. He stood up as he finished and with a twinkle in his eye he said, “These will take you much further than the shoes the others are wearing. Only a few will make it walking with their popular beliefs”. (Actually he said much more, sort of a tirade against the popular find yourself movements that were everywhere at that time, coffee shop gurus and how hollow they really are, a really sore subject with the Old Man. It was clear that he really cared about the other swimmers and wished they would take his advice, as I said, it would take a book) He finished with, “Remember to stay on the path and you will not fail.” The wind was almost tornado level at this point. Fighting the side wind which was trying to blow us off the path we slowly but steadily moved uphill."

Note: In all of my "lessons" my angel quoted John.

STM

a reply to: Bubba1020

Where is heaven located by the way.... if you see how small Earth is and how much else there is in the universe, where would you find room to place a "heaven"?

How do you know that Earth isn't already "hell" and you already died?

Why do you believe what you do? What's your basis for doing so... oh wait... faith. Yep, always a good argument when you can't underline your beliefs with empirical evidence.

What do you think will happen to me when I die? ( I already know the answer, I'm just tickling my own morbid curiosity wanting to hear your answer)


Here's my answer for you... you can't, since heaven is a made up concept carried out by a group of people to control a weaker group of people. This is true for any religion, except judaism which today is as much about nepotism as it is about control.
Common for all religions is that they are all a form of psychosis. Unfortunately, if you can persuade enough people that something is as they say, it magically becomes truth (almost fact) although in the end, none of them provided any proof.

Ask yourself this.... the universe is infinitely large. There are millions of galaxies just like our Milky Way, yet you believe that there is a "God" and that he gives a # about what goes on on Earth? Yep makes sense......

In short, the universe doesn't give a # about you, me, our family or the planet we inhabit.

There just "is".............. the sooner you get this, the soon you will snap out of this insanity and can start living your life free from worry and the feeling you have to appeace some made up super natural power. Be yourself.

a reply to: flice

Prove your theory. Live as a saint in thought, word and deed for 3 months, 24/7. Just do it. Then come back here and tell us what you experienced, oh, and then prove it, k?

Here's my personal experiences, consider it a primer.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

STM

ETA: I spoke with Richard Salbato (a friend of Sister Lucia's) many times as I researched a thread on Sister Lucia and I told him about my experiences. He said that in the classes he taught on the Beatitudes these "visions" / "dreams" / "miracles" are common in devout people and the guidance is always helpful in our understandings.

a reply to: ReAppollonius

Do you literally just believe everything the "Church" says, because that's just the traditional view, nobody knows for a fact who wrote Apocalypse of John. Pseudepigrapha is a fact of life, nobody wants to read the Apocalypse of Jim Smith so you use a famous name and boom, it's scripture.

I'm agree with you that pseudepigrapha is spurious, but I'm not talking about the Gnostic texts found at Nag Hammadi. The books of the Bible aren't titled, and most aren't even signed except for letters Paul added his signature to. The canonical gospels aren't titled, scholars and early church fathers nominally titled them "gospel according to Mark", "gospel according to John" et cetra. The Gnostic texts that were from Alexandria attributed apostolic authorship to themselves. (Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Thomas).

a reply to: NOTurTypical

the Hebrews added titles to their books as well.

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: flice

Prove your theory. Live as a saint in thought, word and deed for 3 months, 24/7. Just do it. Then come back here and tell us what you experienced, oh, and then prove it, k?

Here's my personal experiences, consider it a primer.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

OK, that was interesting. You should clarify that the primer is on the second page. Unless acting reckless during pregnancy or being disliked by your siblings is especially saintly.

But let's look at the first step...

1. totally submit myself to God’s will (take what comes to you with an understanding that in some way it is the right thing to have happen and to turn the other cheek, no ego);

This is what I have trouble with.
How can you have no ego yet assume that everything that involves you is the right thing?

The self righteousness of the "humble" person never ceases to amaze me.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Look, I'm not a scholar, and I'm not here to argue about each word I wrote. I did the best I could to describe what I learned about God, heaven and miracles in our lives. If you're not up to it, just say so.

STM

a reply to: seentoomuch

I'm trying the same search as everyone else.
However every time question those who claim a greater understanding I am told I cannot achieve it because I'm not "up to it" or I'm not "looking with a true heart" etc. etc.

I don't claim to be special, I don't claim to have my own ghost security detail, I don't claim to be of any concern to the greatest being ever conceived of.

It just seems strange that the people who do claim all this, also claim to be humble and without ego.

originally posted by: ReAppollonius

originally posted by: ElGoobero

There is probably 3 times the amount of Apocrypha than Canon which tells me Christianity hates books.

it tells me Christianity has a great deal of respect for books and we want to make very sure we are using the right ones. Questioning a book's bona fides is not the same as burning or outlawing same.

If God wanted the Apocrypha gone and not read you wouldn't have the opportunity to read it. But you do have the opportunity and don't read it because either you don't like to read or you put your faith in mens decisions.

Either way you lose as the Apocrypha are full of Wisdom.

If God wanted He could remove every book on earth except the Bible. He gives mankind freedom to write and share, even to purposefully deceive.
I don't doubt there's wisdom in these books, I just question their divine origin. Man can be wise but not perfect.

a reply to: Bubba1020

No such thing as heaven.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Just pray from the heart the words you just wrote asking God for understanding. It sounds sincere to me, just do it, pray from the heart.

STM

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Just pray from the heart the words you just wrote asking God for understanding. It sounds sincere to me, just do it, pray from the heart.

STM

Muslims pray to allah, christians pray to the trinity, jews to their god and so on.

Is assuming I've picked the correct god a prerequisite to gain understanding.

No one seems to believe in a god that goes against their own morality, which leads me to believe they are creating god to support their views rather than molding their views around god. It explains the variety of religions more than a god who is purposely allowing misleading information to be spread.

But I have asked before and just did so then.
What came to me in my head perfectly matched my current beliefs so I'm back to square one.

It's probably my hearts fault.

a reply to: Bubba1020

That is not for myself, nor any other person to decide. That is a choice between that person and God only, no matter what name they call Him.

A rare Christian - well said

Jesus is the metaphysical gate into the kingdom of Spirit. Know him and you know how to enter. Many other spiritual traditions elude to this gate, but only through Jesus can you enter.

originally posted by: cooperton
Jesus is the metaphysical gate into the kingdom of Spirit. Know him and you know how to enter. Many other spiritual traditions elude to this gate, but only through Jesus can you enter.

are you sure the word you were going for there wasnt "metaphorical"? i can understand how one might get those two words confused. metaphysical, metaphorical...