1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom. Jesus' teaching recorded correctly?

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: pthena
....Believing in some mythical human sacrifice was seen as grotesquely misrepresenting the entire purpose of the Logos which was Wisdom, Reason and good old logical thinking. Christ as the Word is a Gnostic/neo Platonic philosophy incorporated into Catholicism from the "Gnostics." It means a whole lot more than just "the Word."

The teachings about the Word has nothing to do with "Wisdom, Reason and good old logical thinking"

Says you, far from what Christ actually taught though. I disagree entirely and I don't see how you could miss it. Did you read the Gospels?

Listen and learn ! The word of God, created the old world. The word of God is the key to create a new world. God rules by his word !

What was that besides rhetoric??? Certainly not Wisdom. You do realize that the Spirit IS Wisdom, actually it's apparent you do not so I will let it go. You can't force feed Wisdom.


I will leave you with the actual meaning of the Word or Logos. In its original language it actually does mean word AND reason, literally and figuratively.

Good old logical thinking was my take on the teachings of the Logos himself and the etymology of the word logic is itself derived from the Word Logos.

originally posted by: ReAppollonius

originally posted by: Ove38
The kingdom of God on earth is God's rule on earth. It's not a particular place, only a administration. God's will being done on earth ! That's all.

If you say so.

But...earth IS a place and so is God's Kingdom. You seem focused on the acceptance of the tyranny of Yahweh than the actual Kingdom of God as Christ explains it.

A Kingdom by definition is more than a set of tyrannical rules or Rule. Kingdoms are vast hierarchies with rulers and sub rulers....

No, its not a place ! Jesus Christ and his co-rulers, hold the administration of God, that is the kingdom of God, its not a place ! The rule is not tyrannical, but kind, compassionate and full of love.

a reply to: Ove38

I disagree with basically everything you say so I see no point in this conversation.

It IS everything which includes the physical earth. You want to focus on little silly rules and dogma be my guest and I will stick to my Logic and Reason and Wisdom.

originally posted by: ReAppolloniusSays you, far from what Christ actually taught though. I disagree entirely and I don't see how you could miss it. Did you read the Gospels?

Yes, every single word.

John 6:63 "The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: ReAppolloniusSays you, far from what Christ actually taught though. I disagree entirely and I don't see how you could miss it. Did you read the Gospels?

Yes, every single word.

John 6:63 "The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

And? 12 words that you didn't write don't flip reality or rob me of my understanding and they don't show your's. Anyone can quote a book but understanding comes from Wisdom and Wisdom is the Spirit. The Logos is the Way to Understanding but not a guarantee of Wisdom. If you have the Spirit you have it because of the Logos, the Spirit is Wisdom though. The Logos means Reason in addition to Word the Spirit proceeds the Logos because the Spirit being Wisdom is a Thought and the source of Reason. Wisdom is the Spirit not the (letter or)Word. But to get Wisdom you first need the Logos (of God).

Word/Logos is the Teacher, Wisdom is the Truth taught by the Teacher.

a reply to: ReAppollonius

You are right, I said Jesus, I was wrong, my apologies gf

I won't go on, Jesus death meant nothing, " it is finished"

a reply to: Raggedyman

Accepted, mighty fine to see you acknowledge what I am sure was just an honest mistake anyway.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Now let me ask you a serious question and since none know for sure what of the alternate "Abba, Abba, why have you forsaken me?"

I know it's a Psalm and I imagine a message for the Jews in the crowd that would've had a significance that can't be properly conveyed due to its ominousness.

But why are there 2 versions (do you think?).

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: ReAppollonius

originally posted by: Ove38
The kingdom of God on earth is God's rule on earth. It's not a particular place, only a administration. God's will being done on earth ! That's all.

If you say so.

But...earth IS a place and so is God's Kingdom. You seem focused on the acceptance of the tyranny of Yahweh than the actual Kingdom of God as Christ explains it.

A Kingdom by definition is more than a set of tyrannical rules or Rule. Kingdoms are vast hierarchies with rulers and sub rulers....

No, its not a place ! Jesus Christ and his co-rulers, hold the administration of God, that is the kingdom of God, its not a place ! The rule is not tyrannical, but kind, compassionate and full of love.

If it is not a place you can't go to it so if you are somewhere (everywhere) than you can't be at "not a place" which deprives the Kingdom of God of its meaning in the form of a location.

If the Kingdom is not a place it can't be here or there, within or without. But Jesus does say that the Kingdom of God is within and without and without is a place. The Kingdom of God is everywhere and nowhere isn't the Kingdom of God.

You reduce the Kingdom to a set of rules or even feelings which is not its ordained purpose. You are in the Kingdom of God right now and will be when you get to Heaven as on earth.

originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: Raggedyman

Now let me ask you a serious question and since none know for sure what of the alternate "Abba, Abba, why have you forsaken me?"

I know it's a Psalm and I imagine a message for the Jews in the crowd that would've had a significance that can't be properly conveyed due to its ominousness.

But why are there 2 versions (do you think?).

Because there are two people writing their own version, eye witness accounts are never the same
God is not a legalist, God created humanity, God accepts our faults, they are part of us, two versions because two people saw the same event differently and God knows that we are all unique . God understands we don't see the same thing all the same

a reply to: Ove38

Matthew

6:33 Strive first for the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given you as well.

Your description of the Kingdom of God is equal to righteousness in that its good, merciful and love and while it is with those things and has those things it is also not ALL the Kingdom of God has and is a seperate thing necessitating the use of AND his righteousness because if it was his righteousness no point in seperate mentions either.

It is definitely a place though more than just a place still a place.

Here, There, within and without.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Jesus' disciples were never told to establish any kingdom. In fact, Jesus told Peter, 'if you live by the sword, you die by the sword'. Instead, Jesus told His disciples to preach the gospel of the Kingdom through all the earth, make disciples of men, and wait faithfully for His return. It is at His return that He will establish the Kingdom Himself.

American's are not guilty of the crimes committed by their politicians, nor should christians be held accountable for the sins of self proclaimed church leaders.

You ask a lot of questions, but also make a lot of erroneous claims. You sound like your mind is already made up, so continue in your rant.

a reply to: Raggedyman

What do you mean "God is not a legalist?"

I didn't say he was a legalist I just wanted your opinion. You don't need to defend God I am not his enemy I think that makes sense though I guess two people could have heard the story different.

Heard is key though they were not eye witnesses even traditionally only maybe John was present.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Who are you claim someone else's opinion erroneous? You rant and none of this can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and everyone has a right to their own interpretations and I would say establishing the Kingdom of God WAS Jesus mission, he makes that abundantly clear so it is far from erroneous.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


You could factually state for certain that the Kingdom of God is the soul of Jesus teachings and his most important mission, you only need to listen to his words because he says it.


Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done
On earth as it is in Heaven.

On earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN according to the Will of God.

If you need a higher authority you may be out of luck as it is His Will that it be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Pretty conclusive I would say.

a reply to: Raggedyman

That was just one thing I have always been curious about, that and the two deaths of Judas Iscariot.

a reply to: 2012newstart

You have only had contact with some of the Elohim. There are more that are much more horrifying so good luck in the underground bases and protecting yourselves with the cool technologies and weapons that make ya feel studly and safe.

originally posted by: ReAppollonius

originally posted by: Ove38
The kingdom of God on earth is God's rule on earth. It's not a particular place, only a administration. God's will being done on earth ! That's all.

If you say so.

But...earth IS a place and so is God's Kingdom. You seem focused on the acceptance of the tyranny of Yahweh than the actual Kingdom of God as Christ explains it.

A Kingdom by definition is more than a set of tyrannical rules or Rule. Kingdoms are vast hierarchies with rulers and sub rulers yet the Kingdom of God is also in every person waiting for the Spirit to open your eye which is essentially Wisdom.

Wisdom is the key to unlocking the gates of heaven and the Kingdom of God is inescapable as it's infinite.

Although you may be in the Kingdom it's a matter of seeing the Kingdom and realizing WHAT the Kingdom is and it is not about rule or rules but Light, so that you may "see" the Kingdom. Many can't because they haven't a healthy eye to see with and only Wisdom can cure that.

You see much...question...do you eat other sentient beings? I have agreed with you on much you've said. I too, believe Yahweh to be the demiurge and believe Jesus was filled with the Spirit (the Ruach Qodesh) that was wisdom personified (as well as the comforter, nurturer...and feminine). She is the feminine aspect of "God". In my journey to understand, I have realized that killing animals is wrong. Do you see that, too?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Yes I do (see that) definitely although I do eat a steak occasionally but pretty much a once a month ritual. I eat only cage free farm fresh eggs too because it's cruel and disgusting how they handle living feeling beings under those conditions and I should even give up that steak. All farm animals are basically tortured and slaughtered for profits.

Definitely Wisdom/Sophia the Spirit is feminine, it's the same in Kabbalah except they at least say they worship Adon/YHVH the demiurge aka Yaldabaoth/Saklas/Samael the Binah of the Tree of Life and the Shekinah are feminine aspects of Ain Soph Aur. Binah is I am pretty sure Wisdom and similar in function to Sophia.

The two schools differ in some things but have more in common like Parsee teachings and a seemingly neo Platonic philosophy but less noticeable in the Kabbalah.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

that is the official story that brought up 15 centuries rule of the clerical establishment over Europe and beyond. Still, the story in the canonical gospels differ, because there Jesus clearly taught of Beatitudes and other things that were never ever implemented in the practice of the Christendom. Instead, we witness bloodshed and religious persecution all over history. I don;t say this or that person or church are solely responsible. But that are facts of history that no one would deny. Popes several times expressed remorse of what the Church had done.

Whether we have a better option reading books never seen, or seen but banned? In a way, did Jesus preach something even better than we were taught? 1987 years are enough to figure it out. If you or someone else want to wait another 1900 years with another set of sufferings and setbacks for humanity, be my guest! The idea that only Jesus would establish the kingdom of God contradicts the idea He proclaimed the kingdom of God while still on earth. One or the other. It didn't happen so far, therefore there is something very wrong, in the written official books and their interpretation.

At the same time the world is at the brink. Clerics say, that is because the humanity abandoned God. And how it was about in 1700 before the French revolution when the humanity "didn't abandon God"? Today we don't have the luxury of 3 more centuries to just experience the next political-religious experiment on earth. We had them enough even in our 20th century before our eyes.

It is the same in essence the phrase that a EU country's president said recently, the elites are not the problem, the people are. It is a time the Churches elites to abandon their pose of superiority and holiness and to try to help the common people. Mostly, in what seems worldwide drive of survival to better life, whichever cataclysmal or WW3 scenario one may want to employ. Pope Francis told the priests, the people won't forgive you if you love the money. Well, history won't forgive and not only the money affairs.

It is absurd the Church is so slow to stand behind some real renovation of humanity, the biggest of which should be to assure peaceful transition to the new era. it is good when we hear good homilies and encyclicals of pope Francis. But let not forget that good homilies were heard since the time of John Paul II. how long it will take, OMG? Do we have 2,3 lives for that? Do we want to sacrifice the lives of our children and their children, to test whether the leaders are right THIS TIME?

If you call that, already making my mind, yes I made my mind. I do not agree with what I see! I look for better options, personally and for the others. I hope I answered your question.