1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom. Jesus' teaching recorded correctly?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

whats your opinion on your own question

I don't claim to be a Christian. If you claim to be a Christian then take this challenge: Take one of those statements, change 5 or less words in the one chosen, then write it out as consistent with your beliefs.

God loves me

Three words and a smiley face

Do I pass your test???
Hey, hey, hey

What if I fail, will you condemn me as a heretic, will I lose Gods love because some random internet stranger decided I failed his test of my faith in Christ. Will I be cast away from my Father, my brothers and sisters in Christ because I couldnt change three, four, or five words to accommodate a silly schoolyard game an atheist internet warrior was playing.
Oh dear me, I might just have to try harder, my salvation hinges by a thread, a skinny insignificant test, a riddle, a game with an anonymous person on the net.

My faith is secure in Christ, secure in His love for me, most of my life has been failed tests, plenty more to come I dont doubt, but God loves me

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

Christ said the Abrahamic Law had died with Jesus and christians acceptance of him

What Abrahamic law? Circumcision is the only law, all the rest is promise to Abraham. It is written that Jesus said "Before Abraham was I AM." Paul wrote in Galatians that if a person is in Christ, the seed of Abraham, than he/she is of the seed of Abraham even without circumcision.

the truth is the Abrahamic law still stands for those outside of Christ, making atheists more Jewish than christians

Only if they're circumcised. I don't know what women are supposed to do. Make sure their father's and husbands are circumcised? I don't know. I'm not Jewish.

Circumcised or not, you are still under the law
You dont have to be circumcised to be under the law brought through the Abrahamic covenant, that was the point

I dont know where you get that opinion from, gnosisfaith I guess

You have an amazingly naive ability to take a single sentence and build your version of christianity on that sentence.

and you admit you are not a christian and your thumbnail indicates you have no idea what it teaches

Why are words written by imperfect humans accepted as being 100% accurate? This seems to be contradictory.

Now, if GOD HIMSELF were to appear and say that the humans who wrote the words that make up the Holy Bible, transcribed these teachings directly from him, and accurately, then we'd have undeniable confirmation.

We need speedily to move from theory to practice, to its fulfillment. 2000 years theorizing are enough. In that way, I see the possibility of soon to rise Jewish Messiah as a promising one, even if he is not what the Christians expect (Second Coming that is obviously quite off schedule expectations). I do not know how exactly, who exactly and what exactly such anointed person will change. Views differ between rabbis. But something must change and fast. Not only because of the danger of Nibiru and the like. Humanity is at its worst point in history, and God being faithful to His own promises would provide a rescue way too.

The latest info of Rabbi Nachman 200 year old scrolls secret until now, say the Messiah would be a young person with deep involvement into music. Whether he is a singer as I supposed in the quoted thread, one can only guess. There are enough talented young Jews who might start fulfilling the mission set forth by God. Not so big problem if they are called from Christian point of view members of the 144,000 team and not exactly Messiah. Because apparently the word Messiah has different meaning and quite significant for Christians who expect Second Coming and are repeatedly told who the antichrist/beast is (Caliphate, Communism, EU etc) that always failed to materialize. It is sensitive for a faithful Christian that is not educated so much. It would not be so sensitive if there is clear doctrine of the coming 144,000 who precede all the antichrist-driven sequence of events. As the book of Revelation talks about.

Here is one young Jewish singer formerly from the famous M Generation boyband that is performing traditional and modern Jewish songs. In this cover of Scorpions' song Humanity, he almost says it all. If it was my choice I'd probably choose him or someone like him. However it is not mine. The Jewish messiah would rather look like that young man (who is now older 20+) and not like a 65 year old banker NWO proponent. The world will get another last minute chance. We risk too much if there isn't any development. Theories abound including Catholic attempts to modernize Christianity, and they repeatedly fail, since the fall of Communism. The good wishes of popes and youth rallies of 2 mln + are apparently not enough to fix the Christianity that inherited just too many faults. We need something better, different and faster as corrective to the current religious system, and we should be eternally grateful to God and to His Jewish ministers if they finally give it to humanity.


There is nothing dangerous if we the Christians start finally recognize that God is acting today too, far not only thru the vested persons. We should recognize that some of the 144,000 are already among us, although we may be quite off the end times. Time is not a problem, timeline is not fixed in any 7 years. A war in Heaven/space would take its time, may be more than one human generation, may be more than centuries.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Christ said he fulfilled the Torah, not ended it.

That means he came to live a transgression free existence and has nothing to do with the person of Abraham.

Abrahamic law is not even a thing, this is what happens when you read law and think law when you should be thinking Torah i.e. Law and the Prophets (Torah and the Prophets) because a Jew circa the time Jesus lived considered Torah Law and doctors of the Law are doctors or interpreters (never got the whole doctors translation) of the Torah.

Last time I checked it's still in effect for Christianity and a part of the Bible.

Christ didn't say that.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: superluminal11

I just had to make a thumbnail for the sake of those who don't click on links. Hope you don't mind.

How can christians be Jews
Christ said the Abrahamic Law had died with Jesus and christians acceptance of him

Be a gent now and provide that quote with the words "died" and "Law" and I won't ask even for the Abrahamic association with the Law/Torah. And FROM Christ, nobody else (nobody has the right to speak for him as he died, mythologically at least).

the truth is the Abrahamic law still stands for those outside of Christ, making atheists more Jewish than christians

Far, VERY far, from truth. Atheists are as Christian as Jewish as Islam i.e. NONE.

You maybe wish this is true, that I can buy but I assure you that you have no logical way of proving this, as it's hogwash.

All that you say when you say this is that only the followers of an easily dismissed as mythological peudo-biography of a man no historian ever mentioned (that was contemporary with "Jesus")are correct and you anticipate their demise.

Good try for the thumbnail, kudos, but it shows your naivety (going to say ignorance but it could be deemed as rude) in the subject.

You still said ignorance, it's right there... and while some may consider that rude it has no meaning coming from a Christian who IGNORES reason and logic to don the cloak of proffessed "faith."

Virgins both don't get pregnant (excluding the rare case of virgin a.i.) and the prophecy used to support that interpolation of the original Jewish Yeshu's mythology doesn't say virgin in Hebrew, just young maiden. The Bible has fallacies, many fallacies.

The only reason it was popular in Rome was that Rome was pagan. So Yeshu became Jesus, born of a virgin and ressurected godman. See Justin Martyr's dialogue with Trypho (who just destroys Justin as do many a Roman historian).

The first followers of the Nazarene were adoptionists. Meaning at baptism he became the son of God because of his perfect observance of Torah/Law.

a reply to: 2012newstart

You might want to consider why an online paper BreakingIsraelNews, written primarily for an American Christian Zionist audience, would be the ones putting this story out about Megillat Setarim. Considering that you already know what opinion Christians would have concerning a Jewish Messiah being announced.

Possible reason to give Zionist Christians a sense of urgency in assuring Jerusalem, especially temple mount, come under Israeli Jewish control, to usher in anti-Christ(according to Christian Zionists) . That would be a strong political motive.

Rebbe Nachman may very well have seen himself as tzaddik ha-dor (tzadik of the generation or era), a special, saintly person who could potentially become the Jewish Messiah if conditions were right in the world. As such, and if not turning out to be the Messiah, it would be quite understandable that his deep mystery books be burned.

Nachman of Breslov Auto-destructed works
Rebbe Nachman also wrote Sefer HaGanuz ("The Hidden Book") and the Sefer HaNisraf ("The Burned Book"), neither of which are extant. Rebbe Nachman told his disciples that these volumes contained deep mystical insights which few would be able to comprehend. While he dictated the Sefer HaNisraf to Reb Noson, the latter said that he did not understand it at all; later he said, "What I do remember is that it spoke about the greatness of the mitzvah of hospitality and preparing the bed for a guest". Rebbe Nachman never showed the Sefer HaGanuz to anyone. In 1808 Rebbe Nachman burned all the copies of the Sefer HaGanuz and the Sefer Ha-nisraf.

Rebbe Nachman first ordered the two manuscripts of the book Sefer HaNisraf to be destroyed in a bargain for his life during a phase of his tuberculosis which preceded his death by two years. He believed that the illness was a "punishment from the upper-world--for writing a book."

Two years later, from his deathbed, he ordered a chest full of his writings, presumably containing Sefer HaGanuz, to be burnt.

"On the evening of the last day of his life, Rabbi Nachman gave his disciples the key to a chest. "As soon as I am dead," he told them, "while my body is still lying here on the floor, you are to take all the writings you find in the chest and burn them. And be sure to fulfill my request

If there were a code-key to Megillat Setarim it may very well have been burned too, or never written out at all. The decoding could result in pretty much whatever the de-coder wanted it to de-code as.

a reply to: pthena

I think it an appropriate time to quote a recent quote from a Jew, I think a Rabbi:


Those who say they know the Messiah, don't.

Those who do (know the Messiah) don't say.

originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: Raggedyman

Christ said he fulfilled the Torah, not ended it.

That means he came to live a transgression free existence and has nothing to do with the person of Abraham.

Abrahamic law is not even a thing, this is what happens when you read law and think law when you should be thinking Torah i.e. Law and the Prophets (Torah and the Prophets) because a Jew circa the time Jesus lived considered Torah Law and doctors of the Law are doctors or interpreters (never got the whole doctors translation) of the Torah.

Last time I checked it's still in effect for Christianity and a part of the Bible.

Christ didn't say that.

Oops, silly me, Abrahamic covenant, it was my error

I don't think anything. Say to you will carry any weight, maybe research for yourself
Start Romans, 7, 6 consider it in relation to a marriage

a reply to: 2012newstart

Is that what the mission of Jesus was all about? Is that what the nearly 2000 years Christian faith was all about? Where is the fruit of that faith in those 20 centuries? How is it it is not seen because of the sinfulness of man? How is it that Jesus didn't repair that sinfulness, as we were told he did with his life, death and resurrection?

yeah where are those loaves and fishes when a crowd comes -
no need for self flagellation, its all good, the kingdom of heaven is within.

He died instead of us so we can live, he didn't come so all of us die for him!

yeah well vicarious atonement for what - everyone's born sinless - so it's slightly contrived.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

whats your opinion on your own question

I don't claim to be a Christian. If you claim to be a Christian then take this challenge: Take one of those statements, change 5 or less words in the one chosen, then write it out as consistent with your beliefs.

God loves me

Three words and a smiley face

Do I pass your test???
Hey, hey, hey

What if I fail, will you condemn me as a heretic, will I lose Gods love because some random internet stranger decided I failed his test of my faith in Christ. Will I be cast away from my Father, my brothers and sisters in Christ because I couldnt change three, four, or five words to accommodate a silly schoolyard game an atheist internet warrior was playing.
Oh dear me, I might just have to try harder, my salvation hinges by a thread, a skinny insignificant test, a riddle, a game with an anonymous person on the net.

My faith is secure in Christ, secure in His love for me, most of my life has been failed tests, plenty more to come I dont doubt, but God loves me

All you gotta do is believe and repent and you will find gods kingdom....


Of course it will be full of rapists, pedophiles, child molestors, murders and every other in disputable monster who was born into Christian societies then found Jesus in prison or on the deathbed.


All the worst monsters are the quickest to convert in prison and tend to be the most devout. When your looking at living in a concrete box for the remainder of your life, you'll buy anything to think it will get better.

a reply to: ParanoidCovKid

The naysayers will have their end soon enough.

na na na ...spoken like a true cultist -

a reply to: pthena

I read both this article and BIN. I consider it important if it is released now after 200 years (obviously not all burned!). None has 100% of the truth not even rabbi Nachman. He might or might not consider himself messiah-to-be still he passed away and left behind what is now considered framework for the character of the messiah. You know, you can't possibly have several of the most honored rabbis today speaking about imminent arrival of messiah (indepnendent of the recently published doc of Nachman) and still nothing to happen. The year set is 5776. Including rabbi Kanievsky who said the messiah is already there and would resurrect the recently died father of a family.

The Christins' attitude to not quite understand the weight of those wise men, is not the best attitude. Pope is not honored either in our days.

As far as the Christian Zionists to consider announcement of messiah as announcement of antichrist, I talked enough in principle. In practice they might be the first ones to understand that is no antichrist at all but one of the 144,000 who they so fervently believe while studying the Revelation book. The Catholics are much farther from that being unable to draw independent conclusions on Revelation and End times in general. The same is valid for the Orthodox. So I am not afraid how some Christian Zionist will react. I consider what is right and follow it because it is right in my conscience judgment.

You name the issue of Jerusalem borders. I think the contemporary political issues are minor compared to the real issues to surface soon. Rapture or departure from Earth in the face of imminent cataclysm? OR a new society based on new medicine and prolonging life to Abraham's lifespan of 147? I do not have the answers. What is now as world reality soon will cease to be the factor. May be the catacysm is imminent, be it natural or man made, and only then the messianic era will arrive. Kanievski, (I think but I am not sure of the name of rabbi because several of them talked on the subject), said 1/3 of the world will be saved while the other 2/3 will perish. Those are a lot of people. That means 2.5 bln people will make it to the new dawn of humanity, and will be thankful to those who saved them. Doesn't mean they have to reject their belief in Jesus those of them who are Christian! That is the worst delusion ever made in the name of Jesus Christ! Jesus doesn't want our mass death. Or there won't be humanity as well as Christianity if that was the case. Who has the interest to stop the promise of God given to Abraham that is still not fulfilled? That one is not Jesus, rather his opponent! Let those who read, be they Christian Zionists or Catholics, learn to understand when it comes not just to their own salvation but to salvation of God's plan for humanity - do they want to take part in it or not.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

whats your opinion on your own question

I don't claim to be a Christian. If you claim to be a Christian then take this challenge: Take one of those statements, change 5 or less words in the one chosen, then write it out as consistent with your beliefs.

God loves me

Three words and a smiley face

Do I pass your test???
Hey, hey, hey

What if I fail, will you condemn me as a heretic, will I lose Gods love because some random internet stranger decided I failed his test of my faith in Christ. Will I be cast away from my Father, my brothers and sisters in Christ because I couldnt change three, four, or five words to accommodate a silly schoolyard game an atheist internet warrior was playing.
Oh dear me, I might just have to try harder, my salvation hinges by a thread, a skinny insignificant test, a riddle, a game with an anonymous person on the net.

My faith is secure in Christ, secure in His love for me, most of my life has been failed tests, plenty more to come I dont doubt, but God loves me

All you gotta do is believe and repent and you will find gods kingdom....


Of course it will be full of rapists, pedophiles, child molestors, murders and every other in disputable monster who was born into Christian societies then found Jesus in prison or on the deathbed.


All the worst monsters are the quickest to convert in prison and tend to be the most devout. When your looking at living in a concrete box for the remainder of your life, you'll buy anything to think it will get better.

Well it's pretty clear perfect people like you won't be there, I guess you get a VIPs room because you are such a wonderful, holy, righteous person

Maybe a worse monster is a person who think they are like you and don't need to change, I was

a reply to: 2012newstart

We don't realize it today in the secular society, but only before the French revolution 1789 the full political power in Europe belonged to the Church and thru Church-related kings and princes. Even in the reformed part of Europe after 16th century. Indeed, 2 centuries + democracy changed something.

If the Mars bar was invented by a Frenchman in the 18th century there would be no Henry Ford - whatever...

You give too much credence to the Church as a political tool. The fallible humans who would conspire and send millions to their deaths in wars just so happened to also control and play church as it suited them

The absence of a "just god" is telling.

The Gnostics knew the truth.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Last I looked this was in the conspiracies in religion forum -

I find it disheartening that there really is no faith today Which points to Jesus Christ soon return

Well seeing there has been a Chinese empire amongst others for the last few thousand years and they dont believe in Christ your prediction doesn't make sense.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

2. Jesus said that He did come to bring peace, but a sword.

Unfortunatelyy the Roman empire transformed itself into Christianity - man would have made more progress with rationality

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I also said the current political system is not perfect. But it is laughable to blame the EU as "the beast" with its 50+ year history, and not to realize the Church (Catholic in first place) had full control over the Christendom for 15 centuries. If tomorrow the EU president tells you the messiah is messiah, you'd probably call both antichrists. But if the pope tells you that and backs it with theology, then there is a great chance half of the 1.2 bln catholic flock to believe him. The historical guilt requires historical retribution for the sake of humanity. Perhaps many would call the pope antichrist in that case, but after al he is there to serve God not to serve a minority of fanatics who will never accept anything different than their own narrow frames of belief. Luckily they are not in command positions today as they were only 3 centuries ago. Therefore my blame on those predecessors who set the things quite wrong in religious terms and also political at their time. Of course they are not the only ones guilty. But here we talk of spiritual cathegories and not so much of political. Yes we would be beyond Mars if Giordano Bruno the monk who said every star is another world, was not burned but made cardinal. Where are today's cardinals who say every star is a new world? I want to hear them! If they are absent, why not the pope to make a dozen new cardinals who think in that way? Let it not be too little too late the historic repentance of the Catholic Church! History will never be merciful towards people who had the historic chance to change things and chose to do nothing instead.

a reply to: ketsuko

*If* everyone could perfectly follow Christ's teachings, then we actually would have God's Kingdom on earth, but as we are imperfect beings,

Eventually, God will have enough and step in. It is clear that if He does not, we will destroy ourselves.

Funny how after 2 world wars and the killing of millions, nowhere to be seen.
Maybe the demiurge thrives on the blood and misery

a reply to: 2012newstart

So you believe in Nibiru and a few other things "physical"; what makes you think that Jesus as a spiritual being/gods son even existed - that's right..the same books chosen by the same corrupt pagan Emperors written years after the so called crucifixion