Question about mind control and who really fell for it

originally posted by: DonVoigt

Is it possible that there are only a small percentage of people that fully fall for the mind control programs that have been supposedly employed by the alphabet agencies in our governments?

I don't think they can 'control' someones mind. More like manipulate their actions and leave them confused about what they did.

I believe people with mental health issues are the best candidates. I think that they find these people via health institutions. They find people who are immigrants, who have little to no family members around them. Who suffer more than 1 mental illness.

This way they can give them specific drugs - without anyone checking.

I personally believe ( and you can ridicule me for this all you like ) many of the more recent gun massacres were done this way. It was a system they perfected around the Sirhan Sirhan days...

a reply to: Agit8dChop

I wouldn't laugh at you for that it's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, as you said just look at some of the people who do these things, reasonable enough that by their backgrounds this is a possibility.

a reply to: DonVoigt

There are many forms of mind control from old fashioned fear based to modern trauma induced DID.

Then you have subliminal programming and media to reach the people you can't torture into obedience.

Religion is another form that has been successful. Censorship of history and outright lying.

The problem is as soon as a lie is exposed as a lie it is replaced with another lie that becomes the new "truth."

The world was flat, now it's round, slowly becoming flat again. Confusion is a great form of mind control.

Enlightenment doesn't come from learning what is the truth but discovering what is not so you can even begin to look without the hindrance of mass programming.

Break free from the norm.

a reply to: Bedlam

A friendly reminder

a reply to: verschickter

Something crazy going on. Also wrapping up our part of a project we've been working on. Will get back.

a reply to: Bedlam
Thank you for letting me know you did not forget me

a reply to: verschickter

Give me a couple more days, work is insane. The wrapping up bits of a big long project are nasty.

a reply to: Bedlam
No hassle please, this can wait until you have enough time.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Bedlam

Can you give me some keywords or a link about those random people and what he made them do?

Ok, finally got back from the house and had a minute to sit down with my old binder, and you're right, it wasn't Gottlieb, it was Morse Allen during Artichoke. In February of 1954, Allen did the shower thing and the walk up and shoot someone with the play gun thing while investigating the use of hypnosis to create a Manchurian Candidate.

When MK got underway, Dulles took this part of the project away from Allen and gave it and the data gathered to Gottlieb, John Gittinger was assigned to run that part of MKU, Gittinger replicated Allen's demos (more or less) then passed it off to Alden Sears at University of Minnesota, where he did lots of experiments on students. And by the end of 1954 Sears was doing demos for the Agency higher-ups.

In the end, although you had a lot of people on both sides of the fence of developing it further, they killed it as too slow and too unreliable. Basically a sort of perverse law of 'the more controlled they are, the more programmed they have to be'. Although Sears was after the same thing that Satir was trying during Jedi, eradication of base personality and exchanging it for a number of alternates, AFAIK some of that is still classified.

a reply to: Bedlam

Thank you very much for taking the time, I really appreciate it that you sat down, looked in your notes and wrote it here. You gave me some insights I did not have and I can start my own researches into those directions.

It´s possible to plant triggers that last for some time, they need to be hardened and of course the subject needs to appreciate them. Trust is a major variable with this. On the other hand, speed inductions can work pretty good if you confuse the subject with slight hand touched and prolonged skin contact. The uncomfortable feeling will keep the subconscious "live" and you can exploit that. It´s basically the same everytime you blink your eye, your subconscious is active at that moment.

But now I´ll open a bottle of wine and start digging

originally posted by: verschickter
On the other hand, speed inductions can work pretty good if you confuse the subject with slight hand touched and prolonged skin contact.

There were some funny stories (to me anyway) about Morse Allen trying speed inductions and not being able to pull them all off. Apparently they were going to go all the way and snap induce a Russian agent and Morse froze up right after he touched him, had to come up with a bug explanation or something.

a reply to: Bedlam
In my experience, those kind of inductions (intimidation*) work best if you are not alone with the subject because of what I call "trust barrier". I never did any inductions without the subjects consent, so they knew they would get a session but not how. You need their attention so I can see why it did not work.

This could be the reason, the ones that I asked what they felt just before their induction gave answers into the direction of "unpleasant/confusing". It can be stroking along the skin and maintaning eye contact or just repeatly repositioning the subject, to get the setup to follow your commands. At one time they will either get upset or confused especially if you give contradictory commands. The moment their subconscies tells them "WTF" is the window to act.

It´s not easy and it takes some practice, not only the induction per se, but keep the ball "rolling". Those stage hypnotists also work with expections and most of the time, they have prepared the subject beforehand in a way or another.

But I can imagine the fuss, "oh it was just a bug, never mind". Why did he froze up? Did he noticed the agent will not respond?

*with that I mean, violating the private space.

originally posted by: verschickter
But I can imagine the fuss, "oh it was just a bug, never mind". Why did he froze up? Did he noticed the agent will not respond?

It was the first 'live demo' with someone serious. Apparently he was big into either pushing the middle of the guy's forehead like a Baptist preacher casting out demons or tipping your chair over backwards. So he tipped the guy over and choked. One of the backup agents had to make up a sniper story.

a reply to: intrptr

I totally missed your post. Yes, I also see it more as constant influence from the media and establishment.
"The american dream" would be one of those topics. That´s your dream, now make it real (work your ass off).

I just don´t really get that sentence since I stated the opposite.

Its you been sold all that secret mind control makes the best warriors and assassins crap.

I guess the "you" is ment as "the conspiracy crowd".

a reply to: Bedlam

Forehead induction, yes I think I wrote something about that in the thread. This does several things, in terms of "sudden change of the situation". It´s hard to describe for me. Those are the things you exploit all at once while doing that, but it´s just not simply tipping, there is something to it. I bet you know it but I don´t want to write a "howto" because it can be dangerous.

Not all exploits but a great parts have to do with:
-Sudden change of light (your hand over the eyes)
-Tipping the head
-> easy physical control
-> spawns physical feeling of falling, helps deepen the trance
-Touch at rather intim place (normally you don´t let someone touch your face, if he´s not close)
-> confusion trigger
-Forcing downward motion
-> deepens trance
-Hand around the waist, slight pressure upwards towards your other hand
-> can´t really describe that but it has to to with the subconscious acknowledging there is an "anchor", you take that away at the right timing, normally at the point where you place the subject on it´s back but before you lift your "face hand". It spawns a feeling of floating downwards, that´s how I can describe it. Or imagine you leaning your back on a rail and suddenly it´s away. The moment you realize this, subconscious kicks in with your reflexes.

It really has to be done to you first, so you can acknowledge the different mechanisms.
I can also describe what kind of vision you have when you are induced with open eyes. Focus on a word in the middle of your screen, eyes 30cm away. Focus real hard and notice what happens to your periphal vision. Your eyes can´t adjust and will focus into infinity. That´s the visual effect. If the words start "jumping" at you, that´s a sign you are very easy to induce with visuals..

Have you ever stared on something and start to think about something, being in your own world? That´s the gate.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: intrptr

I totally missed your post. Yes, I also see it more as constant influence from the media and establishment.
"The american dream" would be one of those topics. That´s your dream, now make it real (work your ass off).

I just don´t really get that sentence since I stated the opposite.

Its you been sold all that secret mind control makes the best warriors and assassins crap.

I guess the "you" is meant as "the conspiracy crowd".

Since we agreed I redress it to the pejorative you.

a reply to: intrptr
Whatever floats your boat...