Full Blown Twilight Zone - Alien Abductions (From A-Z)

a reply to: Kandinsky

Ahh I read you wrong, I thought up you said he found some unknown implants, as in couldn't identify what they were.

Makes more sense now.

Do you have a link?

a reply to: Chadwickus

He was a guest on the old Paratopia show which is no longer available. He spent some time out in the scene and posting on the blogs as outreach. It was a great because he opened up some great discussions. He wasn't actually opposed to anything in principle and enjoyed chatting and discussing people's beliefs.

There's an interview with him on Tim Binnall's show - here. Otherwise google "Tyler Kokjohn implants" and something would probably show up.

a reply to: boncho

Again, thanks for the thread. I've read all 3 and still have the same questions as before concerning the abduction phenomenon, but that's not my reason for replying again; you mentioned this:

I have debunked for 20 years, I woke up. I am a debunker's worst nightmare, because Im deeply familiar with every tactic that's been used to keep this topic buried for so long.

What did you wake up to? How is that you 'woke up'? I would greatly appreciate it, if you could expound a little bit (or a lot) on your/this 'awakening'. You debunked for 20 years or so and then 'woke up' - the how, when, why of this waking up is the crux of my question - and I would sincerely appreciate any details/anecdotes/sightings/etc. that was/were the genesis of your 'awakening' (my term, not a term you used). Thanks in advance.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
originally posted by: Snarl

You see, I don't think they'd do anything to us at all ... unless it was to exterminate us.

I think we were visited a long long time ago. If we weren't planted here ... there certainly was some teaching done. Too many little clues specific to the power of flight that aren't spelled out clearly in any country's history.

I don't know about that, I travel the world often to just explore and observe and learn, I don't plan on exterminating anyone or anything, not sure why they would jump to that option either.

If we were seeded here (which I don't believe) it would make sense they would track and observe a species development would it not?

Okay ... you travel the world and explore. How many times have you gone back to check on the development of that specific ant hill? Unless I was immortal ... the answer I would give that question is ZERO.

Humans, I'm sure, aren't all that interesting either.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

More or less outlined in this post.

What personal experiences I may have or not have had, I wouldn't say, nor would it matter anyway. Should I have an uncle in the intelligence service & on his deathbed he provided me with absolute conclusive proof that there were very certain/specific, truths behind the UFO/Alien topic, and relayed back a long history of events, with new insight explaining why things happened, how they happened, etc---but even though they could provide very certain proofs, they wouldn't allow it to go anywhere else outside the room what good would it be here? What useful insights could it give anyone else? None. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.

This is the paradox we've lived with for ~70 years now. ~500 or so whistleblowers have come forward to tell about truths within this topic, about underlying realities, but they have all been ignored or discredited. Instantly attacked for character and credibility. We are willfully blind. It's our fault the subject has remained hidden. The only answer, a very obvious, simple, answer...is: Disclosure. There are dozens of cases, dozens...which are known to have transpired with NASA/USAF/NAVY/ARMY/CIA/DIA/etc--involvement. People witnessed and catalogued the vehicles, they were interviewed by the agencies.

However, whether someone is abducted by (perceived) aliens, sees them zipping around, is allowed to see secret files, watches a real clip of hidden evidence, experienced the elements behind the cover-up first hand, whatever, their personal conviction does nothing to confirm it for other people. They do however present a circumstantial case. Circumstantial cases can provide legal conclusions and legal action. This topic has never been fairly presented in under law. Every attempt has been sidelined by subversive elements, ignored, suppressed, etc

The very fact this happened suggests there is something to this issue they need to keep hidden, for whatever reason they've deemed. They should not have the legal authority to do so. It's gotten out of hand. Past excuses are contradictory to modern realities. The 'Cold War' was often cited reason for deep classification, yet it ended. Before we could breathe, a new threat was invented. The Manufactured War on Terror

You can find the fingerprints of the cover-up towards UFOs/Aliens in the historical record now. Even the most mainstream sources (wiki for instance) notes that Sign, Grudge & Bluebook was a cover-up. They misrepresented data, forced people into lying, disavowing statements, threatened people politically/professionally-while this happened, not all the reports even made it into the study as national security cases were classified under JANAP147. The reasoning to publicly disavow UFOs even cited JANAP147 'We already classify serious cases under that anyway, so who cares about this?'---essentially.

The reason the original UFO studies happened to begin with, was because of public outcry about the issue. There were waves of mass sightings across the US at various time. Numerous solid accounts of UFO sightings, behaving beyond known physics, and even beings operating in & out of crafts.

While the USAF panels took a position to discredit the topic using 'debunkery & mockery throughout mass media, politicians, psychologists & scientists...' the CIA also had assets in every media outlet, while funding National Inquirer & Weekly World News, which further mocked issue blocked from the normal news outlets. Given events would not be reported until months-year after they happened, in tabloids, not only had they ceased to be "news", but they were then attached to 'silly-pages' so taking them seriously brought your sanity into question.

As the very deliberate cover up and distraction happened, then we had an effort to push applied psychology, in the realm of the 'skeptical-science' movement. Skeptic literally mean the opposite, its been co-opted to mean today. Sad indeed. Just a coincidence it happened precisely when the public attack on UFOs started. Just a coincidence it supports all mainstream thinking, and illogically attacks any counter-thought. Just a coincidence James Randi, grandfather (or 'uncle') to the movement, used fraud, by "planting" people to discredit. (Uri Geller later had associations with CIA come to light)

In Conclusion:

It really doesn't matter what made me "wake up" one day. Whether it was an actual event, a history passed on, some insight into a program, or a box of old files, or a deathbed confession. All of these things have been presented before, and the tell-tale bashing of the subject has only derailed any claims made. So we can only reflect on the true, documented events. With a new insight I went back over the entire history (and I still have more to go) but a very apparent coordinated effort comes to light looking at it objectively. The trashed the topic, while burring it, while attacking anyone who pursued it credibly, while mocking all proponents of serious debate. And this socially engineered effect they enacted rippled across the North America, global influence worldwide, supported/mimicked it in every country.

The only solution today is to simply disclose all the remaining files they refuse to open up. To "find" the "lost" files, to put into affidavits the "destroyed" histories. Any court of law could send you to life in prison, even death (in some states) for far less evidence than whats been presented for UFOs/Aliens---yet people treat it as though its a manifested hallucination & thats all its ever been. It's time to put up or shut up, people need to demand disclosure. There are no secrets that could warrant secrecy after 50-70 years. there should be none, in a so called 'free' and 'open' country/society so we have a major cognitive dissonance here. Once you reject that harmful state, a number of realities will open up to you.

The simple answer is disclosure though. Simple.

a reply to: Chadwickus

Unknown could be anything though, I would have expected some form of consistency with implants.

Interesting. I applied this methodology in another mysterious field of research, humans have been reporting their stomachs "exploding" from the inside out. Literally just bursting at the seems.

Apparently they were treated by so called "human" so called "doctors" but I remain quite skeptical about this absurd hypothesis. What I've done, is compiled numerous cases of what they claim are: "hernia surgery scars" so we can use this method to see if they hold up to scrutiny.




















While there are some similar elements to these scars, obviously using this ingenious methodology of confirming the veracity of claims being made, by differences in appearance in bodily markings provides conclusive results, it's obvious in very obvious terms, "hernia surgery" and so called "hernia surgery scarring" is likely due to something else.

Also, this claim of "human doctors" performing "surgical procedures" can obviously be dismissed, since we've found so many variations in the sampling that it makes any of the previous claims totally unsubstantiated and totally false. Likely a mass delusion. It's quite obvious, that "humans" nor "doctors" and even more outrageous "human doctors" do not exist, and is likely the result of swamp gas, or some kind of ergot poisoning from local vegetation secreting into the groundwater.

Agreed?

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: boncho
Summary: This is one of the most controversial and degraded topic in the UFO/Alien world. People who are proponents of this are automatically assumed crazy, those who reveal they have experienced these events, are attacked: professionally, personally, socially and their credibility is challenged at the mere mention of their claims.

Tell me this, brother: Why would a technologically advanced civilization send someone all the way out to Earth to anal probe us? (remember ... I didn't put up the pictures ... you did) I think we need to get past that question first.

You see, I don't think they'd do anything to us at all ... unless it was to exterminate us.

I think we were visited a long long time ago. If we weren't planted here ... there certainly was some teaching done. Too many little clues specific to the power of flight that aren't spelled out clearly in any country's history.

"Why..." "I don't think..." "I think..."

You really think you or any of us are gonna be able to figure out the "whys" of a technologically advanced civilization? Especially when they very well may have had a very different "evolutionary" pathway, biological make-up, psychological workings,, etc? Its like an ant trying to figure out why humans do what we do?

Ant 1: I swear, I was inside their domicile, it was much different than ours, above ground, and there was a group of about 4 or 5 of them, sitting on these padded bench type things, staring for Hours, at a flat panel with moving images and sounds, and for most of the time, not one of them said a single word... I don't know What to make of it. I just can't wrap my head around it.

Ant 2: Man... You know we are friends and everything, but, i wouldnt really go around telling anyone about that. It makes you sound crazy, to be honest. I mean, tell me this brother, why would a technologically advanced civilization spend all their time sitting around staring at a panel? It makes No sense!! As if their Queen would stand for that! And above ground homes? Why? How?! The ground provides all the living space you could ever need! Why go through all that extra work to first build, and then have to protect your home from the wind and rain when you could just tunnel and be done with it? Look, I believe these advanced creatures Probably do exist... they may even have noticed us at some time in the distant past, and some of our kind may have seen them before. But the way you're describing them makes no sense to me. And I think I know what an advanced civilization would be like, just by simply looking at our own civilization and extrapolating that into likely future scenarios...


It's almost like man trying to figure out the mind of God.

Also "why would they anal probe us"? Anal probing doesnt seem to be present in the majority of cases. That was just talked about waaay out of proportion, as a way to ridicule the victims of abduction phenomena. There are often, however, medical type tests and experiments often done. Which explains why anal probing is present in a relatively small percentage of remembered/recalled experiences.

Maybe the tests arent even necessary to add to their knowledge. Maybe they are trying to show us how we are making animals feel when we experiment on them without their consent. Maybe they are appalled by our very un-custodial behavior and are trying to teach us a lesson. Maybe they are very spiritual and want us to realize all lifeforms are conscious in some way, and that we are traumatizing our custodial charge. Perhaps this trauma is causing ripples of pain through the universe on some level.

I remember in Karla Turner's book Masquerade of the Angels, Ted Rice has an experience inside some kind of compound where tens of humans are being corralled into a building, with some humanoid guards around and Ted (the only one seemingly aware) shouts at them "What is this?! You can't do this to my people!!" One guard replies, "why not? You treat cattle lime this, so we can do this to you."

Kinda makes me wonder, are they following some kind of law? If we didn't do those things, would they still do those things to us? Are they obligated to, or at least feel obligated?

Or maybe they are just sadistic, demonic bastards, thriving off our fear and helplessness

Or something in between the two, even stranger than we can imagine.

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: boncho
Summary: This is one of the most controversial and degraded topic in the UFO/Alien world. People who are proponents of this are automatically assumed crazy, those who reveal they have experienced these events, are attacked: professionally, personally, socially and their credibility is challenged at the mere mention of their claims.

Tell me this, brother: Why would a technologically advanced civilization send someone all the way out to Earth to anal probe us? (remember ... I didn't put up the pictures ... you did) I think we need to get past that question first.

You see, I don't think they'd do anything to us at all ... unless it was to exterminate us.

I think we were visited a long long time ago. If we weren't planted here ... there certainly was some teaching done. Too many little clues specific to the power of flight that aren't spelled out clearly in any country's history.

"Why..." "I don't think..." "I think..."

You really think you or any of us are gonna be able to figure out the "whys" of a technologically advanced civilization? Especially when they very well may have had a very different "evolutionary" pathway, biological make-up, psychological workings,, etc? Its like an ant trying to figure out why humans do what we do?

Ant 1: I swear, I was inside their domicile, it was much different than ours, above ground, and there was a group of about 4 or 5 of them, sitting on these padded bench type things, staring for Hours, at a flat panel with moving images and sounds, and for most of the time, not one of them said a single word... I don't know What to make of it. I just can't wrap my head around it.

Ant 2: Man... You know we are friends and everything, but, i wouldnt really go around telling anyone about that. It makes you sound crazy, to be honest. I mean, tell me this brother, why would a technologically advanced civilization spend all their time sitting around staring at a panel? It makes No sense!! As if their Queen would stand for that! And above ground homes? Why? How?! The ground provides all the living space you could ever need! Why go through all that extra work to first build, and then have to protect your home from the wind and rain when you could just tunnel and be done with it? Look, I believe these advanced creatures Probably do exist... they may even have noticed us at some time in the distant past, and some of our kind may have seen them before. But the way you're describing them makes no sense to me. And I think I know what an advanced civilization would be like, just by simply looking at our own civilization and extrapolating that into likely future scenarios...


It's almost like man trying to figure out the mind of God.

Also "why would they anal probe us"? Anal probing doesnt seem to be present in the majority of cases. That was just talked about waaay out of proportion, as a way to ridicule the victims of abduction phenomena. There are often, however, medical type tests and experiments often done. Which explains why anal probing is present in a relatively small percentage of remembered/recalled experiences.

Maybe the tests arent even necessary to add to their knowledge. Maybe they are trying to show us how we are making animals feel when we experiment on them without their consent. Maybe they are appalled by our very un-custodial behavior and are trying to teach us a lesson. Maybe they are very spiritual and want us to realize all lifeforms are conscious in some way, and that we are traumatizing our custodial charge. Perhaps this trauma is causing ripples of pain through the universe on some level.

I remember in Karla Turner's book Masquerade of the Angels, Ted Rice has an experience inside some kind of compound where tens of humans are being corralled into a building, with some humanoid guards around and Ted (the only one seemingly aware) shouts at them "What is this?! You can't do this to my people!!" One guard replies, "why not? You treat cattle lime this, so we can do this to you."

Kinda makes me wonder, are they following some kind of law? If we didn't do those things, would they still do those things to us? Are they obligated to, or at least feel obligated?

Or maybe they are just sadistic, demonic bastards, thriving off our fear and helplessness

Or something in between the two, even stranger than we can imagine.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Kandinsky
Unknown could be anything though, I would have expected some form of consistency with implants.

Implants = laughable

No ... really. For what purpose would an advanced species have in sticking a primitive device into someone's frikkin' neck bone? They're an advanced species capable of traveling across dimensions or the vast vast vast regions of interstellar space ... and they're gonna stick something into my spine.

Geez ... I thought we were all a long way from our teen years (except for that hang-around-kid who hates his parents).

a reply to: Snarl

Unless I was immortal ... the answer I would give that question is ZERO.

From what is reported, the ETs are a hive mind. In essence, they are very much immortal (if the reporting is correct).

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Kandinsky
Unknown could be anything though, I would have expected some form of consistency with implants.

Implants = laughable

No ... really. For what purpose would an advanced species have in sticking a primitive device into someone's frikkin' neck bone? They're an advanced species capable of traveling across dimensions or the vast vast vast regions of interstellar space ... and they're gonna stick something into my spine.

a reply to: boncho

LOL

Really?

a reply to: Kandinsky

People always see aspects of their own minds. Spiritual people frame it as a spiritual possibility whereas those with darker elements in their psyches discern demons, evil aliens and so forth. Jacques Vallee (computer scientist) interpreted it as something like an issue of coding; he suggested interfering with the 'control system' to create a 'feedback loop' would make it visible at last.

My point here is you should be very cautious about who you choose to represent your understanding of the unknown. If you can understand me here, all you'll be doing is finding a narrative that suits your psyche and dismissing the others.

This is where the split in research to interpretation is, and it's fine for these people to have various interpretations. What is being misrepresented however is the fact that their subjects only experienced what the researchers interpretations were in conclusion of. This I recognized instantly, because I had been touting the same 'debunking' mantras before examine the evidence thoroughly.

For instance, they all had subjects experiencing identical themes, events, witnessing the same types of creatures going through the same scenarios. The researchers merely had different interpretations.

Did this have an effect on the people who sought out certain researchers? In time for sure it may have (I would argue as you do, it likely did) Also, as mentioned in the OP, Mack was a psychiatrist, so it makes complete sense he would focus more efforts on cases where there were mental and less physical elements at play. Though he never discarded or rejected the physical cases, he states quite unequivocally they exist, and that he dealt with them.

The debate with Budd Hopkins between Mack is a perfect analysis and example of how the same events, the same happenings, lead to two different interpretations. Does it make the events any less real? No. Does it change the reliability of the data collected? No.

Jacobs, had focused on one element of the phenomenon. He stuck to centring on the reproductive tests and what was going on with offspring production, and interaction therein. For him to come to the conclusion there's a breeding program, from evidence pulled from his own cases, Macks & Hopkins (and likely others Im not sure), also doesn't contradict anything anyone else has done in the field.


This is a totally illogical argument that many people who attack the subject fall back on, almost religiously. If we sent an anthropologist, a historian and a bartender to the New World, and had them interview each of the crew of Columbus' and ask them about the natives from their interpretations, what kind of result would we end up with? Seriously think about that for a moment.

I think what Mack was focused on, was what appears to be a controlling, mind-manipulation of the ETs (or beings-I still leave that open to be honest) and he realized that when they inflicted thoughts of pure joy, spirituality, love, etc---(usually to distract---it appears---or perhaps mind experiments) these people were could not find a comparable feeling in all of human understanding. To Mack I think it seemed like the holy grail of spirituality. He also likely knew that under no circumstance would the establishment accept physical aliens being here, abducting people. So perhaps he knew the best chance at legitimizing the topic was to push a spiritual/mental/metaphysical-reality. Maybe he truly believed it was the most important part of the subject, idk.

As for the religious interpretations. Again, it doesnt contradict anything else. Until we know more about it, there may be very vast religious consequences and interpretations into this subject. I've read that people have experienced abductions when they began going to church, others who ceased interaction by invoking the name of Jesus Christ. This is where Babylonian history is important (in comparison to other history, seriously overlooked by the establishment---Hebrew texts have been decoded, decrypted, interpreted hundreds of times over---there remains a large body of work as of yet to even be translated once in akkadian/sumerian texts)

In any case, the old histories talk about multiple Elohim ------ Annuna gods ---igigi---watchers....etc, etc --- it appears from my very superficial interpretations, various peoples were loyal to certain gods. Or certain gods had stewardship over certain peoples. This could explain the wide variation people experience, if they are indeed related. Why certain groups seem to be different to a minor degree. Why some people experience harsher treatment than the next.

Also, gangstalking, which is something I believed to be totally fictitious---absolute and utter delusion...I realized the gangstalking accounts, some of them are identical to hybrid encounters in abduction study. Im currently looking into a correlation. I've been asking people who are 'victims' of that for any markers or red flags to see if its connected. It would make a lot of sense. People have posted some pretty creepy videos, where it really does look like people are keeping tabs on them. Maybe they just dressed up in a weird hat/mask and video'd it too, idk. If there's truth to it, could be related.

The MILABs were a later phenomenon right? I think that's likely due to hybrid programs. People assume governments are teamed up with ETs (and who knows, that could be too), but the hybrid breeding was documented from ages ago, then people see humans on ships. 1+1=2 to me. I don't think it is evidence the gov is working with them, though it doesn't rule it out either.

As for the implants...I do believe they've found implants in areas of peoples bodies that are basically impossible to get to with modern surgery, also impossible to natural end up there. Isn't that enough for a superficial confirmation? Beyond that I'm not sure what could be gleamed. Surgery requires planning, many abductions seem to be repetitive, meaning they know the surgery is happening one way or the other. Also, I don't know why people expect to find nano-bots or special equipment. We could go back in time, inject someone with an isotope for tracking purposes and it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to prove it had been done to them.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: boncho

LOL

Really?

It's literally the exact same, in parallel, as the way it was being framed, no?

these abuduction reseachers are all hoaxers foloww my threads if you want to see the real aliens

a reply to: boncho

Actually, it wasn't more or less pointed out in that post. There was a good bit of rambling in that post, but whatever - you're not being interrogated or stretched out for specifics just an idea of what you 'woke up' to - but glad you 'woke up'.

You started to read different material after 20 years and saw some major problems and dug deeper. Seems to be the MO of those who are most interested in 'disclosure'.

Don't worry, I won't be asking anymore or looking for unsolicited condescension. But good luck with 'disclosure'. Seems to be more awakening heading your way.

Like all good things, they must come to an end. This thread was good, but then it wasn't. It happens. I'm out.

originally posted by: boncho

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: boncho

LOL

Really?

It's literally the exact same, in parallel, as the way it was being framed, no?

No. C'mon man. We tag our animals as a sign of ownership. We don't want anyone else coming around and saying they are theirs. Such a stretch. I grew up on a farm for crying' out loud.

a reply to: Snarl

I'll admit not the best example, but you're forgetting also all the animals we tag while researching them in the wild, or to keep track of the ones we release back into the wild.

Oh wait or those chips some of us put in our pets in case they get lost.

Or...

Do I really need to go on?

Addendum Side Note: Honestly I always found the "But why would" people to be really really lacking in imagination and clearly trying to bait people. Are you people really telling me you're so non-creative and lacking in imaginative and brainstorming capability that you all can't come up with a single reasonable explanation for most anything? I'm not saying the answer you come up with would be true, but to not be able to come up with anything one must be really damn inept.

a reply to: boncho

Not sure what your point is here? Are they all different types of hernia operation scars, showing that they're all different?

I'm sure a meta-analysis on the types of scars would prove more reliable than a handful of cherry picked ones.

A hernia operation is quite a bit different to putting a small implant in somewhere.

Funny, you mention a hive mind, wouldn't that make a consistent scar pattern and type of implant more likely?

And your animal tag photo kinda weakens your point. We put the same kind of tags on the same spot... See that consistency thing again.

a reply to: Chadwickus

It seems to be working. That inconsistency seems to be doing it's job rather well. Plausible deniability, perfect for keeping us humans ignorant of our watchers. Wouldn't want to ruin the experiment by exposing ourselves.

The what if and why questions are great for brainstorming and figuring stuff out, but terrible for proving a negative.

Any creative mind can come up with why's and why not's for most anything, it's evidence neither for nor against anything.