Full Blown Twilight Zone - Alien Abductions (From A-Z)

I'm going to point out over the years I've engaged in some very illogical and irrational debate on this subject, instead of actually reviewing materials, I've always reviewed "skeptical" materials on the subject. So it's approaching a subject from a biased perspective with preconceived conclusions. One day while looking for something to listen to, I threw on some AA accounts/videos---and I did a double take.

"They just said what??"

There are some serious logic breakdowns (in the observers preconceived notions, not from the presentations) when reviewing the evidence. The arguments used to discredit and deride this topic are very weak in the face of some evidence presented. Contradictory. And just plain impossible. Now, the only caveat is I obvious can't review all the materials personally (the actual files created) by the researchers. Ive read their books and watched conferences, and to be honest, that's still more than what a simple 'debunking' report provides.

There are 3 main abduction researchers who've put out the largest body of evidence, they are:

Havard Professor John E Mack PhD - Deceased

Historian David M Jacobs PhD Ass Prof Temple University

Budd Hopkins - American Artist/UFO-Alien Researcher - Deceased

Another point is John E Mack, who was a tenured Harvard professor, chose to investigate this topic. He was the first Harvard prof to ever be investigated. He was also cleared of wrongdoing. There's a logic breakdown when some debunkers cite Mack to try and discredit Hopkins and Jacobs, saying "Yeah, but Mack said it was a mental phenomenon" ----the reality is Mack focused on psychological cases, because he was a psychiatrist. He absolutely, 100% confirmed and supported Jacobs & Hopkins and also stated many of his cases had physical elements to them.

Some of the most compelling and brain crunching evidence is physical scars and marks left behind. Keep in mind these are reportedly from people, thousands of miles around the world, no contact or knowledge of each other. All experiencing similar bouts of "missing time" or 'false memories' where they remember spending hours with a dead relative, or absurd memories like 'riding my bike for 10 hours'. Memories that do not make sense at all. There is no logical or rational explanation for these things, and there is absolutely a direct correlation to the altered memory states.

The fact similar marks, burns and scars have been observed by numerous people around the world is the most troubling. This literally made my brain melt when I first started actually paying attention.

Also before we get into it, Im going to pre-debunk the debunking, with this commentary by John E Mack - where he addresses most of the commonly held misconceptions or false arguments. If your plan is to debunk, please give responses to his statements. Thanks.

Photo Evidence of Physical Effects (click for larger picture):

Scoops --------



Scars -----------



Implants -------



Youtube Presentations:

Budd Hopkins Med-Evidence

David M Jacobs - Hybrid Breeding Program & future takeover of our planet (seriously)

David M Jacobs - Longer conference on all aspects of abduction - focus on how abductees are persecuted

Live Debate with John Mack & Budd Hopkins (Speaking on interpretations of phenomena)

John Mack speaking with a few others

Budd Hopkins Peanut UFO Encounter & Abduction -- An abduction w/UFO sighting first

The case he's speaking about and the analysis that ruled out airplanes or other explanations has a write up on it here


Books:

Walking Among Us---David M Jacobs (Preview): www.scribd.com...

Missing Time----Budd Hopkins: www.slideshare.net...

Summary: This is one of the most controversial and degraded topic in the UFO/Alien world. People who are proponents of this are automatically assumed crazy, those who reveal they have experienced these events, are attacked: professionally, personally, socially and their credibility is challenged at the mere mention of their claims. This behaviour, by 'skeptics'' is unfathomable. If someone were to experience the very same effects by human captors, there'd be mass outrage and protest. But instead we dehumanize the victims, and ensure the matter will continue to be covered up. (I must say Ive added to this illogical and irrational action and dismissal of these events).

The truly remarkable thing however, is after you review the full body of evidence, the idea that thousands of people around the world engaged in an organized deception, over 50 years, and that they achieved this in such an organic way (first seeking out medical advice, medically unable to find problems, some doctors notice PTSD side-effect---but no event to tie it to, etc ----or 'missing time' as its something experienced around the world, by countless individuals, all seeking answers, many ignoring or leaving it unanswered. To think the researchers somehow colluded to fabricate this evidence, in the manner it was recorded...it almost seems a larger conspiracy than a military industrial complex (with virtually unlimited funds) taking action to cover it up (rather than rag-tag underfunded researchers who have only ever earned political derision and near professional suicide) somehow 'invented' or 'coerced' all these people to participate.

The common theme is this only happens to farmers and hillbillies, the reality is it happens to doctors, policemen, firemen, psychologists (obviously able to tell the difference between physical and psychological), businessmen, CEOs, lawyers, and a long list of reg people too----hairdressers, homeless, unemployed. -all kinds of people. I think after reviewing cases, that was my biggest surprise.

I urge people if you've never actually reviewed the evidence, if you've limited everything on this subject to only reviewing 'skeptical' (aka:pseudo skeptical) accounts, perhaps it's time to actually review the materials and see what you think about it. Approach it with an open mind and give it another shot. There is an extreme amount of resistance and cognitive dissonance people will have, I understand it entirely, but something may click where you say, "wait, that's not right. and my impression wasn't either..."

There's a few hours of conferences via Youtube as well as a book preview and I think a full book. It makes for good entertainment, at the very least.

originally posted by: boncho
Summary: This is one of the most controversial and degraded topic in the UFO/Alien world. People who are proponents of this are automatically assumed crazy, those who reveal they have experienced these events, are attacked: professionally, personally, socially and their credibility is challenged at the mere mention of their claims.

Tell me this, brother: Why would a technologically advanced civilization send someone all the way out to Earth to anal probe us? (remember ... I didn't put up the pictures ... you did) I think we need to get past that question first.

You see, I don't think they'd do anything to us at all ... unless it was to exterminate us.

I think we were visited a long long time ago. If we weren't planted here ... there certainly was some teaching done. Too many little clues specific to the power of flight that aren't spelled out clearly in any country's history.

a reply to: Snarl

I came with this awesome time travel theory that can be summarized in one word: microbiota

www.abovetopsecret.com...




I'll let myself out, excelsior!

a reply to: boncho

John Mack was on Oprah in the early '90's. Must debunkers claim he was into the New Age thing and pushed a'spiritual' narrative versus someone like Jacobs, who has a pure reductionist take on the phenomenon. I highly encourage anyone interested in this topic to read Mack's Passport to the Cosmos. It piggybacks off his earlier works and is a solid read.

Thanks for the thread

originally posted by: Snarl

You see, I don't think they'd do anything to us at all ... unless it was to exterminate us.

I think we were visited a long long time ago. If we weren't planted here ... there certainly was some teaching done. Too many little clues specific to the power of flight that aren't spelled out clearly in any country's history.

I don't know about that, I travel the world often to just explore and observe and learn, I don't plan on exterminating anyone or anything, not sure why they would jump to that option either.

If we were seeded here (which I don't believe) it would make sense they would track and observe a species development would it not?

a reply to: Snarl

Tell me this, brother: Why would a technologically advanced civilization send someone all the way out to Earth to anal probe us?

Who says they had to go anywhere? It's a largely ignored topic from the scientific establishment, though courageous pioneers have broached the subject. Jacques Vallee proposed an inter-dimensional theory (still ETs technically), ----maybe they simply "crossed" into our space rather than 'went' anywhere?

----others posited ET-as-aliens---that could travel with unknown physics (subspace), Warp Drive, etc --though I believe some have also posited time-travel, a distinct possibility until it's proven unlikely by physics.

Fun fact, Gene Roddenberry may have actually gotten the story for Star Trek from channeled Aliens, a CIA operative, or someone targeted by the CIA for speaking to Aliens. Source 1,Source 2, ATS Thread.

Or maybe just the CIA was controlling Sci-Fi from the ground up...funny how it got so well polished and consistent after the 60s...

The fact you've responded with "Anal Probe" is an emotional pre-programmed---socially engineered response. And I take no offence, but say your mother had experienced an abduction, would you speak about her that way? (Ya, when Ma got anal probed!!! har har) No, I wouldn't think so. This programming was by design. The USAF/CIA/Tavissock & others were very busy in the 50s-70s. During the same time USAF was officially covering-up UFO/Alien cases, classifying them under JANAP147 (which they would later remove from disclosure) & misrepresenting the public cases---while officially recommending debunking by politicians, TV personalities, physicists & psychologists. Essentially they did absolutely everything one would expect if covering up actual Alien intervention.

Back to the question: 1st it's not just anal probes and faery tales. I know most people are hoping for anal pleasure, but in reality there's a much deeper subset of experiences. In the 70s-80s a wide array of abductees reported being experimented on. The pictures, show scoop marks, radiation burns and implants. The implants have always came back 'inconclusive' in tests (though there are some strange factors surrounding them, no autoimmune response, etc).

Many of the tests performed at that time were a wide array of physical and mental tests. They would show people a mental image or hologram of the world ending. This led many to think it was a message of end times. Others though it was a warning of environmental disaster. Some became activists on these causes. (In reality they may just be measuring emotional response.)

Most tests did involve reproductive experiments. Semen and Ovum retrievals. Some experienced missing organs (reproductive)-surgeries. And by the time the 80s were beginning, subjects noticed half-humanoid/half-aliens on board, after repeated abductions. Years after the first experiments began.

At first the 'hybrids' were very noticeable. By the later 80s, they were looking more and more human, though the eyes were odd, and they had very patchy or thin hair growth. By the 90s, the hybrids were extremely humanoid, some perfect or near perfect replicas. By the 00s, they had mastered the craft.

These experiences and change in subject, happened across 3 researchers and thousands of subjects, all reporting a similar curve in improved human/hybrid production. The woman who were used to breed the offspring, were implanted early on, then retrieved after (I think) 8-16 weeks. Presumably, the gestation was completed in an incubator. When the hybrids were born, the mothers were retrieved for various duties. Breast feeding. Communication. Contact. And once they had reached the perfect or near perfect (Jacobs calls them "Hubrids") stage, they were using them to "teach" human behaviour.

Not what you'd expect either. Very basic stuff.

"How do I eat an orange?"

"Why do I eat an orange?"

"Why can't I eat it with the peel?"

"Can anyone eat an Orange?"

"Who is responsible for Oranges?"

"Must I give everyone part of my orange or eat it myself only?"

So in essence, you could say they came here to eat oranges /s

This may seem weird, and it is. The stuff explained is very bizarre, but there is an eerie, deeply troubling logic to it. It does not make sense someone made up all these very strange accounts. They are not self-aggrandizing, they are not self-pitying. They claim the aliens are a hive-mind. They are exactly the types of thing you'd expect a hive-mind to ask when learning how to act human.

You see, I don't think they'd do anything to us at all ... unless it was to exterminate us.

How do you know that isn't already in progress?

I think we were visited a long long time ago. If we weren't planted here ... there certainly was some teaching done. Too many little clues specific to the power of flight that aren't spelled out clearly in any country's history.

At least we can agree on that. When "man was sent to all corners of the Earth and languages confused" it wasn't language. It was history. Akkadian & Sumerian texts are the same gods of every religion, of every myth. Therein lies the confusion.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I don't know about that, I travel the world often to just explore and observe and learn

This is a good point for a variety of reasons. Some of the arguments are:

"came so far, but crashed here? pfft"

Yes. And we have science vessels. We also have Command Ships, and we also have dinghies. There's also time-travel, think of two of the same ship, coming out at the same point in space-time. There is also radar-which, given the reported telepathic nature of the ETs, may very well be like a flash grenade to them.

They came millions of light-years in our giant universe to see us, surely there's better stuff out there!

Is there? We would travel millions/billions/trillions of miles to see another species, post a "multi-generational trip to Alpha-Centuri" see how many sign up---bet it's more +1000. Also if they did indeed seed us, gene-splice us, were our past 'gods' than it only makes sense they return---on that note, why is the Vatican one of (if not the) largest owners of telescopes and observatories?

I think some already have the full story.

a reply to: boncho

I am someone who has personally seen a UFO in broad daylight and so am quite interested in this subject.

A major source of information is Whitley Strieber and you should spend some time listening to his podcasts on dreamland.
Striebers website
He also confesses to having an implant in his ear which was put there by military personnel that entered his bedroom.

a reply to: southbeach

I have read all of Strieber's materials. And I think his "Communion Papers" book was one of the best, as he was getting more popular, people were sending similar experiences. To be honest, Strieber's account by himself means nothing and its easily dismissed. The reason Hopkins, Mack & Jacob's work is so profound, is because (whether people like to ignore it or not) they did employ probably the best protocols seen in abduction research. They also focused on trends and recurring themes, events, specific details, etc.

Because memories are being suppressed, it makes this topic very contentious. It's easy for people to dismiss it. I still recommend reading his stuff, but not until people finished with the work by the other three. People who are reserved, will not break down their socially-programmed bias until they see something that cannot be rationally explained. It's easier to dismiss Whitley because he approached it so many ways. Not to knock his researcher either, but the trio have a little more clout together.

The biggest problem with this kind of research, is it appears the ETs are implanting a memory of very wonderful, spiritual Aliens, who bring humans on board for great emotional and spiritual journeys. What the trio noticed, was that there were very traumatic memories beneath those, once accessed, everything was available. It came back as a flood of information, and they would then realize the 'love-peace-unity' stuff was a cover. Some people never get beyond that though. I think the reason the trio hit on it early on, is because they had more than a few who had seen psychiatrists/psychologists, (as well as Mack, a professor in the field) were aware there were emotional trauma (PTSD) so they pursued it until it surfaced. There are a few researchers who are happy with whatever answer given, and indeed, there is a problem with this research in that respect. The fact they had repeated, unsolicited key elements, across the board from a variety of people, some witnessed and recalled without hypnosis, lends much greater credibility.

a reply to: boncho

Striebers implant was noted by a DR so there is some kind of evidence to back up his claims and I was suggesting to listen to his podcasts because of the guests he gets on and I have heard Strieber say some of the most fascinating stories and theories I have heard.
His best book by a country mile though is "The Key,a true encouter"

You will never get to the bottom of it because there are too many cases of people hoaxing.

There is no evidence that lights in the sky, daylight discs have 'non-terrestrial' pilots.

It would be very unlikely that Non-terrestrials would 'abduct' people and return them right where they found them - like, in their bed but with clothes turned inside out, for example. It would be a lot more likely the person sleep-walked and redressed themselves in a somnambulistic trance getting their own clothes on inside out.

We are constrained by physics to 'visiting' only those star systems to which we are bound by gravity, by the way. The 'Local Group'.

The chance that we are truly alone in our galaxy (the Milky Way) is becoming more and more obvious.

We are in the best possible, best imaginable quarantine paradigm. Space, time, cold, radiation, gravity well, near vacuum, limited life span.

There are no non-terrestrials visiting us. Yes, life is ubiquitous, but it's mostly micro-organisms.

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: boncho

Striebers implant was noted by a DR so there is some kind of evidence to back up his claims and I was suggesting to listen to his podcasts because of the guests he gets on and I have heard Strieber say some of the most fascinating stories and theories I have heard.
His best book by a country mile though is "The Key,a true encouter"

Sorry I didn't mean to belittle or beat down Strieber by any means. I was speaking merely from the perspective that many are approaching this from a very biased standpoint already. Strieber really toughed it out, came out very publicly, and mainstream sidelined him with his previous fictional works (which of course would be influenced by his experiences).

I forgot about his implant: Whitley Strieber knows that implants are real because one was placed in his body that doctors have been unable to remove, but have been able to determine is not natural.

Im a little hesitant with Strieber because he had a Youtube series awhile ago, and I think he teamed up with someone. What that persons agenda was or if they're disinfo, teaming up on purpose, I have no idea. Though I could be remembering from before I shifted my overall stance.

Im glad you added to the thread regardless. Thanks.

a reply to: Maverick7

cases of people hoaxing.

Is this a Hoax? Report it to admin...

You will never get to the bottom of it because there are too many cases of people hoaxing.

Ah yes, the 'ol "we decided it can't be real and cannot exist and we've been searching it for ~70 years and found zero evidence!" -argument.

That's called pseudo-skepticism. As mentioned in another post, the USAF Officially covered up UFOs/Aliens -this is undeniable, 100% FACT. They did it in parallel to public programs, applied psychology, social engineering-to discredit/mock&ridicule = FACT. They did it the same time "skeptical-science"movement was born = Coincidence/FACT. Though they've managed to argue it wasn't directly connected.

("Skeptical-Science" btw took 'skeptic' and made it mean the opposite of what it previously meant)

They misrepresented and set out to bury the topic with Sign, Grudge & Bluebook. The official policy was to publicly shame, discredit and debunk the topic. While this happen, the CIA funded National Enquirer, Weekly World News and placed agents and assets in major news agencies & the NEWSWIRE and prevented regular news stories from being carried, and pushed them a year later in Tabloids (to discredit them).

The Bluebook study was fraud. They outright ignored the empirical evidence aka: scientific fraud, they were also classifying cases under JANAP147 protocols. Which they later LIED & HID from FOIA requests, until someone found a Canadian NORAD-Doc--AIA=Acquisition. US used the joint mission to hide UFO reports, not realizing Canada would have its own disclosures.

It was then they found out files were straight up missing from the Bluebook study. 5% unsolvable cases were claimed, when it was actually 22%. Some cases were direct sightings of physics breaking crafts, humanoid figures, etc---there were waves of sightings at the time. Which is what sparked the projects, there was a public outcry!

If it was all a bunch of hoaxes Im seriously questioning the effort they spent burring this subject for so long. Also, maybe you can launch the campaign to declassify numerous case files which are known to exist but are "lost" or "missing".

We are constrained by physics to 'visiting' only those star systems to which we are bound by gravity, by the way. The 'Local Group'.

Yes, and we used to be constrained by the entire Universe revolving around the Sun. The Universe hasn't changed, only our worldview.

We are in the best possible, best imaginable quarantine paradigm. Space, time, cold, radiation, gravity well, near vacuum, limited life span.

Imagine the quarantine paradigm the ANT has! He probably sees a human figure as just another moving body of firmament, so Im sure he will never visit/witness another life form outside the insect world!

There are no non-terrestrials visiting us. Yes, life is ubiquitous, but it's mostly micro-organisms.

I see absolutely no counter of the evidence provided in the OP whatsoever. Just some inane ramblings of very bias predisposed opinions. Not addressing the topic at all. Please refer back to the paragraph in the OP:

Also before we get into it, Im going to pre-debunk the debunking, with this commentary by John E Mack - where he addresses most of the commonly held misconceptions or false arguments. If your plan is to debunk, please give responses to his statements. Thanks.

If you choose to stay on topic, please rebut the very poignant points the late John Mack has presented on this topic. Otherwise you are simply posting off topic and your posts aren't welcome. I have debunked for 20 years, I woke up. I am a debunker's worst nightmare, because Im deeply familiar with every tactic that's been used to keep this topic buried for so long.

having been to several ufo international conferences and met people with alien experience (or ET experience, maybe a quibble) bonchos analysis is way overdue.

a reply to: boncho

I used to regard Mack as a solid voice of reason in the field and was misled by his excellent academic credentials. If he took abductions seriously, why shouldn't everyone else? That was the pivot of my understanding.

After reading Passport and Abduction and listening to his lectures, it became apparent that he wasn't being as critical as we might expect from a PhD academic; not enough for me at any rate. He eventually travelled so far down the path of the transcendental and the transformative that he (imo) lost sight of the values of science. Spirituality is a fine thing insofar as it sets out markers for how we live our lives. On the other hand, condemning science as restrictive materialism and reductionism seemed to me too regressive and naive.

In short, his published views on the world undermined the trust I had in his ability to think objectively. Check out his Dreamland interview with Streiber or the Prophet's Conference. If they're no longer online, I'll send you copies

This isn't to say I dismiss everything he did; I certainly don't. Abductions is still a decent book and thought provoking whilst his work with abductees was therapeutic and much more constructive than either Hopkins or Jacobs.

Mack attracted people whose spiritual underpinnings were lifted by his approach. His narrative understanding that abductees were actually 'experiencers' turned a traumatic event into something enriching. If you haven't already heard of him, Leo Sprinkle is seminal in that approach as he was using hypnosis and Eastern concepts back in the 1970s.

In contrast, Jacobs fulfilled a role in the narrative of evil aliens taking over the Earth. He attracted many abductees who felt the same and, together, they engaged in a sort of folie a deux. Hopkins was very similar although I believe he wasn't quite as disturbed by the 'evil alien' narrative as his friend was. Both of them abandoned neutrality in the early 2000s (at least) and vetted all of their clients - they agreed that neither had "the luxury of doubt any more.". This meant they dismissed everything they didn't like as a 'screen memory.' In some cases, they'd regress and regress again until they began to hear what they wanted to hear.

When psychologists got involved, they diagnosed psychological conditions. Spiritualists spied spiritual entities pulling us all on to higher planes. Paranoid people identified wicked schemes to cuckoo out humanity and replace it with hu-brids and hybrids. Religious people recognised demons and advised saying the name of 'Jesus' to thwart the abducters. There's a conspiracy sub-culture who believe aliens are also demonic and kidnap people for rapes. This goes hand-in-hand with the MiLab sub-group who argue aliens abduct people in collusion with shady groups in the military.

In my opinion, this *unknown* people are trying to explore and understand is so entwined with our own consciousness that it's reflective and resists being viewed objectively. People always see aspects of their own minds. Spiritual people frame it as a spiritual possibility whereas those with darker elements in their psyches discern demons, evil aliens and so forth. Jacques Vallee (computer scientist) interpreted it as something like an issue of coding; he suggested interfering with the 'control system' to create a 'feedback loop' would make it visible at last.

My point here is you should be very cautious about who you choose to represent your understanding of the unknown. If you can understand me here, all you'll be doing is finding a narrative that suits your psyche and dismissing the others.

a reply to: boncho

The fact similar marks, burns and scars have been observed by numerous people around the world is the most troubling. This literally made my brain melt when I first started actually paying

Except that they're not.

Your examples are all different from each other, and in different locations on the body.

How many different types of implants are they using??

Why are the scars and bruises so different?

a reply to: Chadwickus

The provenance of the implants is typically suspect.

Anything from Dr Leir is ruled out imho.

A microbiologist called Tyler Kokjohn spent a couple of years in the abductee and UFO scene. He listed a few good and hitherto* unknown medical explanations for implants.

* lol. I think it's the first time I've used 'hitherto' on the internet

The pictures, show scoop marks, radiation burns and implants. The implants have always came back 'inconclusive' in tests (though there are some strange factors surrounding them, no autoimmune response, etc).

a reply to: boncho

Hi boncho, it's a pleasure to see you posting this kind of serious inquiry rather than trashing somebody else's similar thread. Sorry, some of my fondest memories of you are as a rather harsh skeptic. I haven't gotten through all the posts here yet but I just wanted to say thanks, and that this is a marvelous thread friend.

Also, I felt compelled to chime in because I have some personal history related to this topic. I have never really been able to reconcile the memories of my childhood with a few physical anomalies that I normally just ignore because I can't explain them. One of the earliest memories of my childhood is sitting on my side porch steps and not having any memory of how I got there and what I was doing before I got there. It was about 50 years ago and I was a young boy. I only remember looking down at my leg and seeing a raw looking scoop mark out of my left thigh about 1/4" in diameter and around the same depth. It looked fresh, raw and pink, but no blood was coming from it. I was horrified but hid it and never mentioned it. I still have a slight scar from that scoop. For years, especially the years immediately after it happened, I had a sort of hollow, pocket in my leg there with a skin covering over it that sunk in in the middle. I never showed anyone.

Much later, probably around the mid 2000s in my current home, I woke up to find a similar sunken hole in my right thigh. It was almost the same size as the one in my left thigh but already looked healed. I never saw that one looking raw. I don't know, maybe I missed that part, I normally don't examine myself that closely and I am busy. I am usually at work and don't have much occasion to wear shorts during the daytime. Anyway, what is odd is that I have no gap in my memory as if I had missing time. At least not in this second case. Just a matching scoop mark.

I have never thought that I've been 'abducted'. I don't have any such memories. But I have these marks. It's strange and I can't begin to explain it, but I can't deny it.

I don't want to ramble on and I apologize if I sound disjointed, I am trying to write something at work as I answer my wife's texts while I write this.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Unknown could be anything though, I would have expected some form of consistency with implants.

I'm only basing this on what I believe human scientists would do... So easily dismissed I guess.

But yeah, the randomness and inconsistencies of "implants" really hurts the credibility in my opinion.

ETA: Many of the scoop marks could be what's called contracted scars, or box scars... A quick image search yields similar results to what we see in the pictures, but again, they're all different, if they're takeing tissue samples, and again, I would expect consistency.

a reply to: Chadwickus

Yeah, that's why I referenced Kokjohn. He explained scoop marks and metal deposits using conventional medical evidence. It was enjoyable because most of them aren't common knowledge - it took secure medical subject knowledge to even know of them.