Climate Change Denial: Why?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

If you believe the climate is, in fact changing, why do you think it's okay for humans to ignore it?

Why is it fine if we do not do what we can to mitigate it, to reduce the potential harm it is sure to cause if we do nothing?

what are you going to do to stop the next F3 tornado? What about the next Category 4 hurricane? NOTHING. because that's what you do to nature, you adapt, improvise, and overcome. nature is going to win every time. And I have no doubt, when it's had enough of us, it will simply pull the chain and flush us right away, spend a few hundred thousand years purging the remnants of humankind, and wake up refreshed and new.

But in the mean time, sure we can try all we can to improve our conditions and leave things better than we found them. It will take some strong leadership, some great ideas, and a complete removal of all the pompous arrogant "I'M RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT AGW" attitude that currently resides in the AGW camp. As I said, delivery is key.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm sorry but what exactly do you see as the endgame here. Let's pretend everyone is in agreement and they are making strong new laws to prevent climate change. What are they? How do they work? How are they enforced?

Let's say I'm an average American who already recycles, doesn't litter, drives a hybrid vehicle when needed and bikes when not. How is my day-to-day life going to be changed and how specifically will that STOP climate change?

Also answer in 6 words or less

a reply to: Jonjonj

I do! So - you deny climate change? And if not, what should we do if anything....and if you do (deny it), should things just continue on as per status quo?

a reply to: Bennyzilla










We Can Do Something To Help

a reply to: network dude

ok.
didn't mean to upset you.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Haha Nice

No limit on words this time: What exactly do you see as the endgame here. Let's pretend everyone is in agreement and they are making strong new laws to prevent climate change. What are they? How do they work? How are they enforced?

Let's say I'm an average American who already recycles, doesn't litter, drives a hybrid vehicle when needed and bikes when not. How is my day-to-day life going to be changed and how specifically will that STOP climate change?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I live in the U.K and forget renewable technologies. We've got plenty of Shale to frack and our Government is going to pay all the people living in the areas where fracking will take place a £20,000 bribe, er I mean share of the rewards.

So....you're trolling... right? LOL!!!

Fracking causes earthquakes. Oil rigs cause oil spills. etc

My point being, MY Government's narrative has changed, because regardless of what I do, they are going to wreck everything anyway in the pursuit of the filthy lucre.

Climate change is occuring, no one has ever doubted that or really questioned it, so I don't know why you are?

Green technologies are expensive and not as efficient as what we currently have. I am sure it can become so, but it appears MY Government does not have the will to invest, when money can be made.

OK genius (since the "class" is above everyone's head but your's), I will in turn ask you a question prior to answering yours.

Why do Global Warming/Global Cooling/Climate Change (the name keeps changing because the data does) always get so perturbed when people don't listen to their pseudoscience?

A) There is no REAL evidence to to support man made (or even largely man affected) climate change. The only 'evidence' is derived from a computer program which was designed to SHOW climate change and that it is caused by man.

B) There is, wait for it..., actually a thing called climate change. But it is not caused by man. It is caused by the Earth, the Moon, and the Sun primarily. Is that to say that man does not contribute? No, man does contribute . . . maybe even as much as 5% to climate change overall. But Dinosaurs did more damage with their poop millions of years ago (4,000 years ago for those of you delusional enough to think the Earth is only 5,000 years old) then all of mankind's carbon footprint combined.

So, if you want to be worried about the climate being affected by something. . . worry about the Sun's next cooling cycle which WILL actually have an effect on Earth's weather.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: network dude

ok.
didn't mean to upset you.

lol, nowhere near upset. Just hoped for a new better attitude about this subject, but I realize it's more important to feel vindicated, so I'll leave you to your lists.

here's your 6 words:

Better leadership, better ideas, better commitment.

Because most people that cry out about climate change, cannot separate that from straight up pollution cleanup.


Do I think we need to clean up the mess we have made? Hell yes. Let's start with the ground, and the oceans.
If they had a plan to start there? I would be on board. (But I still wouldn't believe that the plant that made that laundry soap container caused the ice caps to melt!)

But creating a tax because I drive a car?

Stupid. What is that going to do?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I don't think you have read even one of my posts properly but I will recap.

I don't deny climate change at all. The climate is changing, we can measure the climate changing because we have the instruments to do so.

Humanity has some effect on the climate, no doubt about it, and change should come, but how about the major industrial nations, The US, UK and western Europe, China Russia take a hit for the planet instead of BUYING the right to pollute the planet through CARBON TAXES and EMISSIONS TRADING ( which I linked earlier in the thread) from those countries who are struggling to even get into the 20th century! I mean if anyone is to blame it is those who have been doing it the longest! What about that for an idea?

Apart from ALL that, the science of climate as a closed system related to the Sun is completely ignored, as is our position in the solar system and space in general regarding dust clouds reducing or increasing sunlight and a myriad of other possible incremental causes.

But no, lets just focus on the ONE thing that will keep the rich rich and those poor countries down in the dirt, where they belong!

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm sorry but what exactly do you see as the endgame here. Let's pretend everyone is in agreement and they are making strong new laws to prevent climate change. What are they? How do they work? How are they enforced?

Let's say I'm an average American who already recycles, doesn't litter, drives a hybrid vehicle when needed and bikes when not. How is my day-to-day life going to be changed and how specifically will that STOP climate change?

Also answer in 6 words or less

I'll play but not in six words. I think the only really downside is a carbon tax. Let's take that out of the equation.

Make Solar easier to install and cheaper to use. That doesn't need to be a government subsidy. Take Nevada. Nevada power does everything it can to stop home solar and make it more expensive then it has to be. Take away that red tape and let homeowners do what they want.

Electric cars. Again, take away or get rid of laws that make it harder to sell electric cars. My model here is Tesla...entrenched auto dealers are forcing laws because Tesla doesn't have old school dealerships and salesmen.

start making Coal, oil and natural gas more accountable for pollution. If they have to pay to clean up that pollution, it will be too expensive to continue and those industries will either find new business models or evolve to cleaner energy. You pollute --you pay HUGE fines and clean it up. No government subsidies. We all want less government anyway.

Communication. Florida won't even let state employees publicly use terms like sea level rise and climate change. Meaning, even if they disagree, they should be having discussions about storm surges and land use permits and building at or below sea level.

Military. I was in the Military. I find it offensive that actual generals and strategic planners have concerns about sea level rise and how that might affect low lying bases...possibilities of increased local wars due to drought and migration...cleaner energy to replace having to rely on the middle east...more fuel efficiency...they can't even have those discussions because congress tole them not to. The Military doesn't care about how is causing global warming or carbon taxes..they care about the effectiveness to complete misssions. We should really be listening to what they are saying.

America. No matter what, Americans survive and thrive and change with the times. Just look at our history...we left the industrial age and entererd the information age...who knows what's next, but I believe we're leaving the fossil fuel age and entering the clean energy age. Just look at the biggest benefit, no more reliance on middle eastern or russian oil and natural gas. The whole world power dynamic is getting ready to shift and it's going to be pretty amazing.

a reply to: JDeLattre89

just to follow up on that a tad, the Earth sits in a Utopian spot. Just far enough away from the Sun so that it ins't a magma flowing mess like Venus, and just close enough so it's not freezing cold like Mars. Then, on top of that, it spins and rotates around the damn sun all while we sit here and contemplate just how fantastic we really are.

Knowing all that, does it make more sense that a tiny shift in something much larger than we can control might have an ever so slight effect on the climate, or that everything has and will remain 'Utopian' and the only variable is how much cows fart?

Rhetorical, but fun to contemplate.

a reply to: amazing


I agree with all that but you're not thinking straight if you think any of these things will ever happen without the Carbon Tax. That's the reason they want it. Without it they have no reason to be pushing for any of this.

a reply to: Bennyzilla

That is why a bill for a carbon tax just failed in Washington state. There was a rider that would have LOWERED taxes in other areas in order to offset the new tax. But the government types pushing this so as to raise more money from the people could not have that. Basically they said the incoming money was more important than the why.

a reply to: primespickle

originally posted by: primespickle
We are destroying our oceans, our forests, our air, animal life, etc ETC ETC. That is proven. Whether this behavior is causing the temperatures to change is IRRELEVANT.

At this rate everything will be mined, used up, and polluted beyond repair leaving this one and only planet we call home uninhabitable. Something NEEDS to be done to correct these issues. There needs to be renewable sources of energy, and people need to stop polluting and raping the earth of its finite resources.

And THAT is the $64, 000 answer!!

Shifting the narrative away from "pollution" to "climate change" allowed industry to hire debunkers. What climate change, the climate is not changing, the climate is changing naturally, etc.

Americans have to understand that, besides cheap labor costs, one of the main reasons to offshore American industry was to avoid pollution control/clean up here. Those pesky "regulations".

The problem is, pollution in places like China (and Mexico), as worse it become in those countries, does not stay confined to map borders. Industrial pollution in these countries used to be a problem pretty much confined within its borders, but the extreme growth of pollution has brought industrial pollution back to America.

It has been known for years that air pollution was found in Oregon on Mt. Hood. And now this
China's mercury flushes into Oregon's rivers

Many Americans have been hearing the siren song of "climate change", deluding them, steering them to shipwreck on polluted shores. Talk of "climate change" does nothing to clean up the pollution.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
My first reaction to your post was. Hmmm here we go throwing out the bait for the deniers. But Im an optimist, maybe just maybe, the deniers have woken up. But 4 pages later the ignorance is flowing freely.

We are screwed. There is no point in arguing for change because nobody is listening anymore. Science is the devil. One day a volume of ice will slip off the land into the sea and the deniers will shout "it will take 1000 years to melt" meanwhile Archimedes will turn in his grave at the ignorance of man 2000 years after his death!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Climate change denial is its own industry and it generates a lot of money. If we were to all accept what 99% of climatologists and scientists say about the climate, who stands to lose? The oil industry. And who is the biggest advocate of oil and coal? The GOP.

So is it a coincidence that everybody I know who has claimed climate change as false or as a "conspiracy" is a registered republican or, at the very least, a "moderate" who watches FOX news and Rush? There is a reason the GOP fears clean energy. There is a reason they fear actionable consequences for continued status quo energy industries.

a reply to: Abysha

Right? But ------ why?

I'm only trying to expand the horizons and get them to think.

Sean Hannity and his type don't THINK.
sigh.

Thanks for stopping by.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
a reply to: BuzzyWigs
My first reaction to your post was. Hmmm here we go throwing out the bait for the deniers. But Im an optimist, maybe just maybe, the deniers have woken up. But 4 pages later the ignorance is flowing freely.

We are screwed. There is no point in arguing for change because nobody is listening anymore. Science is the devil. One day a volume of ice will slip off the land into the sea and the deniers will shout "it will take 1000 years to melt" meanwhile Archimedes will turn in his grave at the ignorance of man 2000 years after his death!

for the record, this is what I meant about "delivery".