What are you willing to admit about your party or candidate?

I'm going to try a little experiment with myself and see if anyone else wants to join in.

I noticed ON EVERY SIDE that people seem to think their party or candidate is completely infallible despite any and all evidence against. So I am going to make a little political awareness experiment and if you want to join me, please do.

But there are four rules you MUST follow to be considered successful in the experiment.

1. You have to actually admit a solid and concrete issue you have about your party or candidate. Not some surface thing like, "well Trump/Clinton could do better at speaking." I mean something legit like "Trump/Clinton really messed _____ up and here is why I see it."
   
2. You CANNOT...see CANNOT...in any way, shape, or form, talk negatively about the opposing party or candidate. To pass rule two, you have to be genuine and legitimate about your own party and candidate and NOT follow it up, "but, so and so does ____"
   
3. You CANNOT soften the blow and say "Trump/Clinton does this, but it isn't that big a deal....everyone does it."
   
4. You can ONLY attack your own party, not cross attack on another post
   

This is how it works....you have to point to your candidates ACTUAL follies or problems and CANNOT post negatively on the opposing candidate or party in you post and cannot soften the blow

Good luck!

So....I am a hard left Socialist. Like...hard left. With one exception being gun control. I own a couple of my own and I have a CCW license in the works. So I am preparing that I will be blasting my own party and candidate...specifically I will be going after Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama as well as the DNC and democrats/socialists as a whole

Bear in mind I will still stand by the Socialist ideal....love it....but I have concerns

Bill Clinton - The first POTUS I was old enough to vote for (both terms) and I happily voted him back in. Ok no softening and no cross talk.

The entire Lewinsky thing bothered me more than I was willing to admit. I am faithful and always will be. If someone else cheats, hat is their business. So I am not concerned about the affair. this is not breaking rule three mind you...the real issue is the lying.) So he is investigated and completely lies and manipulates the people. I always had this idea that, if he was so forward and honest about his THC smoking, why would he pull this BS? I am not saying it would be easy to just say it, but the evidence piled up and he just said "NOPE!"

Barack Obama - Fast and Furious leads to guns ending up in criminal hands with the same old "GWB did it" excuse. Even if he did, does that mean he can sweep through and f*** up and it's alright? I am guessing increasing debt was also GWB's fault?

Hillary Clinton - I have a serious issue with this email BS. I was a 2W2 (Nuke Troop) in the USAF for 8 years starting 2002 in good ole Minot AFB. I held an active TS with a CNWDI (Critical Nuclear Weapons Design Information) modifier. She claimed she never sent any emails with classified information, however the FBI found it to be inaccurate. If I had done that as a measly SSgt, I would have been done for...or at least never heal a clearance again. To me...blatant lie. I frankly am not sure she is truly in touch with the people.

Now...to the Democratic population itself

I've always believed that Democrats (while I agree in many cases) are a case of failure due to all heart and no brains. We want to force harder gun control, and yet my hometown of Chicago is rampant with gun violence despite heavy laws and frankly, I do believe there is pandering from time to time. I see so many of my comrades who fly under the explicit sail of Democratic party who act belligerently on emotion and fail to take logic into account

Anyway....this was not posted out of anger. It's an experiment and I think I passed my own rules

So....what can you admit about your party or candidate that follows the four rules?

Good luck!

S&F!

I predict crickets......

What can I admit about my candidate and party?

They don't exist.

originally posted by: KyoZero
...and CANNOT post negatively on the opposing candidate or party in you post...

That ought to be a forum rule or something, or at least a whole forum category where people can actually have threads that carry on specific to their purpose, instead of get drug into the MUD when the 'other people' jumps in and says "ya well your person sucks worse cuz'a this a and a this a" sort of deflection crap that's been crapping up most all the election threads I've happened to gloss over.

Oh this is easy.

Currently the Democratic Party is so corrupt that it's laughable - and the fact that even the MSM can report on the rampant corruption just shows how ingrained the corruption is and how desensitized and enured to it we've become.

And Hillary Clinton is a lying, self-serving, war mongering monster of a human being.

However don't clap too loudly yet because I could and would say the same thing about the Republican party - and their candidate is a lying, self-serving idiot.

I'm a liberal conservative!
Is that a thing?

I'm socially liberal. For gay marriage and abortion rights.

I'm with the conservatives on economic and military issues.

As you can see pretty much all the choices suck for me. I feel the economy is the most important thing so I usually vote republican.

So trump it is...
He's an abrasive blowhard with an ego the size of some smaller states. He shoots his mouth off before thinking and alienates people. I doubt he really has a clue how the real people live. He has no political experience but I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. He has made some business dealing while perfectly legal were not exactly what would be considered ethical.

Trump is an idiot.

Hillary is a criminal but not an idiot.

Pick your poison...I'm left holding my Johnson.

originally posted by: Hefficide
Currently the Democratic Party is so corrupt that it's laughable

Actually, none of it is all that funny, I mean categorically such reality doesn't even qualify as a "bad joke", unless maybe we were to say it as "BAD joke".

However, with the right vision, when properly draped in cynical dark humor, there is a certain entertainment value to the whole charade of mutual self-deception party people engage in about this sort of stuff, especially in an election year. Well normally anyways, with this new PC crazy stuff thrown in the mix now it's basically all tiresome.Well it is interesting for sure, but there's little entertainment value left to be found, hardly even in my own twisted little obscure version of it, from this stuff anymore tho.

It's all so pointless usually. Two Party System is just 2 sides of the same dirty ugly crooked coin, where thanks to them and their collusion US little people trying to vote third party is an entirely futile affair. But as such I would go down and vote third party just for them out of much respect, for having the balls to take it on knowing they dont have a snowballs chance in the Sun, and still carrying the torch for some unforeseeable future.

Although Ron Paul was my guy, and honestly, there really wasn't a lick on him (except maybe that bizarre newsletter ordeal), but the MSM & the 2 Party System CREAMED him via their diabolical electioneering collusion machination machine.

ALRIGHT, ON TOPIC FINALLY:
So voting against PC (which is only something I came to fully comprehend this summer) is my biggest thing to even bother with any of this election stuff, and therefore Trump it is.

I honestly didn't follow the debates, speeches, or video news coverage, or anything besides skimming the headlines. Until about 2 months ago I started taking bigger peeks. I still hadn't seen a speech until his nomination acceptance speech (where he appeared to me a perfectly good candidate). The past 2 months I have observed plenty a material cutting every which way from all of you here in ATS! PS: I've never even seen his TV show; I haven't had cable TV in well over 10 years.

>Insert Bluntone22 above critique here:<

SERIOUSLY: From the beginning, I figured Trump was just some celebrity the GOP put up there with those 5 other guys to bury Rand Paul, in the debates and such, like even worse than when they brought out actor Fred Thompson late in the game in '08 (after many contenders had been dropping out they needed fresh blood to keep ignoring Ron in the debates etc so here he came). Him being a billionaire reality tv host whatever, he seemed the perfect elitist caricature for such a task.

I did note these literal riots breaking out and such but had no context to frame what was fueling these FIRES... besides being purely all Trump alone which seemed entirely bizarre to me)... although I later came to understand that its this SJW stuff really setting that issue ablaze (hence none at Hillary events). But the point is, the way all the MSM headlines I had been browsing all had me left with no other assumption besides it being "ALL Trump's" fault (that the masses are so crazy nowadays).

At first I totally figured he was some total shill by default. Later in spring a trusted friend on such matters insisted the MSM + 2 Party System is in endless smear campaign like they did Ron Paul. To me, that's the big measure of if someone is Establishment, or not. Since then I've seen nothing but confirmation of this agenda. This guy might actually be the real thing, per se, going by my "how They did Ron Paul metric".

So he's got my vote on that count.

Do I trust him? NO. Am I convinced he isn't a shill? NO. When I'm 'active' around here after if/when he takes office, will I begin critiquing his actions apart the something the same as I did Bush & Obama? YES! (well unless he manages to prove thru policies he's not just another RHINOSAUR)

From my casual observations about him so far, I have been picking up on there being some realities to a lot of the personal trait flaws the Hillary people love SCOLDING him over endlessly around here. I see this as a major weakness, although impressive he's gotten so far with it. But my impression is he's just so used to being The Boss, and there are apparent flaws in his power here now as a result. I think if he had been an active member say here in ATS for some years, he'd have much better composure, and more well honed talking points and such. If he had been an long time active ATS member he'd be unstoppable up there, so it's cringing to observe some of this stuff, as he NEEDS to win... both for the sake of pumping the breaks on this PC stuff that is running wildly absurd and out of control, and because he just might be a real deal non-Establishment dude. He's the only shot at getting one actually "elected" this time anyhow where expecting the Republicans really do hate him the way it looks then good news because these dinosaur parties need to get shooken up.

So I say support him, but like I would say about any other DONT worship him (or ANY other human being).

I don't have a party, but I have an anti-current establishment mentality, so I'll have to work with that.

Even if I do break up the current establishment, I could actually make things worse. Even if a full blown revolution occurs to reset things, there's no guarantee I won't be making things much worse.

In fact the chaos of such change is pretty much guaranteed to make things worse before they get better, IF they get better and it's not for nothing.

Drastic change involves a lot of risk.

In addition, while I know and feel corruption must be vanquished, the balance between the rich and the poor restored in government. I'm forced to admit I have no idea how to build a system to do so. Most of us don't. We just know, things can't continue as they currently are, but a real solution is still non existent.

a reply to: KyoZero

I will admit (no great news to anyone)..that neither party has any of the best interests of the country at heart. Even though much is at stake.

Neither is solidarily for the people.

a reply to: KyoZero

Clinton is so enamored with herself as the savior and spearhead of liberalism that she is totally blind to the fact that Sanders would have been a much better candidate against Trump. She should have stepped aside and been a true liberal rather than the poster girl for the new world order.

a reply to: KyoZero

I like trump.

He is a typical rich NYer as far as taste.

Bad hair, and speaks like god was competing with him.

This is both good and bad, zero Fs given. Brutally honest.

originally posted by: KyoZero
I noticed ON EVERY SIDE that people seem to think their party or candidate is completely infallible despite any and all evidence against.

Well, SOME people think that their candidate is infallible. Most, quite honestly, seem to be voting against the other person, so I don't think that your claim can work for many, many outspoken people.

That said, I'll play a little bit, since I'm a libertarian-minded fella and will be voting a second time for Gary Johnson (I did it in 2012, too).

I absolutely go against the Libertarian Party's (and Johnson's, apparently) stance on abortion. I'm absolutely against elective abortion (other than in pregnancies due to rape, or if the mother's life is in danger...but that's medical, not really elective), so I cannot back Johnson on his stance that he considers...well, let his website tell you:

On a personal level, Gary Johnson believes in the sanctity of the life of the unborn. As Governor, he supported efforts to ban late term abortions.

However, Gov. Johnson recognizes that the right of a woman to choose is the law of the land, and has been for several decades. That right must be respected and despite his personal aversion to abortion, he believes that such a very personal and individual decision is best left to women and families, not the government. He feels that each woman must be allowed to make decisions about her own health and well-being and that the government should not be in the business of second guessing these difficult decisions.

Gov. Johnson feels strongly that women seeking to exercise their legal right must not be subjected to prosecution or denied access to health services by politicians in Washington, or anywhere else.

Appreciate Life. Respect Choice. Stay Out of Personal Decisions.

I can respect his reasoning, but in the spirit of true libertarianism and my belief that we all have a right to life, I don't consider that unborn child's life as being an extension of the mother's own body, even though the mother's body is the carrier of the child. I base that decision on science stating that even the zygote phase of a pregnancy has its own unique DNA, therefore making it its own individual human being. The fact that it must exist inside of the mother, attached by an umbilical chord, does not negate the reality that the unborn child is, in fact, its own unique person. I consider elective abortion for the sake of anything other than what I already stated to be murder, and I absolutely see it fit for the government to say so.

I also differ a bit on his stance on the importance of guarding our borders. I agree that wall is unnecessary IF we don't castrate our border patrols from doing their jobs effectively. I do, however, support his idea of making immigration more streamlined--the amount of both time and money that it takes someone to immigrate into the U.S. is pretty inexcusable, at least in most situations.

There are a few minor things here and there also, but nothing of real note. I'm certainly unsure about Bill Weld as his running mate, but the reality of life is that we elect the president, and the VP only does what the president basically allows them to do. But, overall, I get to vote FOR someone, and I generally align with at least 90-95% of Johnson's claimed stances on the issues, so I'm very comfortable in that.

For comparison, I generally land in the 60% with Trump and way down in the 30% with Clinton.

a reply to: KyoZero

Okay here we go...

I'm a conservative....
And I think the conservatives need to do a better job (more like the dems) of putting on a show of party unity. Granted, this year was a bit looser for the dems, but in the past and even now after the DNC they appear largely united. They keep their disagreements internalized or downplayed and look like a team. The right sucks at that. They look like immature crybabies who didn't get picked first. Shut up, argue behind closed doors, and show the public a unified party.

And Trump...You won the nomination, now unite the party and quit making the right look so disorganized and clusterf*cked. Sometimes you gotta kiss ass to kick ass, and his ego gets in the way of that now and then.

Im an avid Hillary Clinton supporter. I actually voted for her in the 2008 primary.

Big fan of everything Clinton. I was born in 1989 so the Bill Clinton years of my childhood I have fond memories of, everything was perfect it seemed until Bush came in and ruined it all.

As far as things I dont like about Hillary or that I wish she would change?

I wish she would take a stronger stance on the Free College issue like Bernie did, and recognize that the current 20-somwthings are wallowing in student loan debt that we will NEVER be able to repay.

I have about 20,000 in private loans, and about 35,000 in govt loans for school. I am a business analyst, and yet, I have NO idea how I am going to be able to afford paying those loans back and also pay a car note and rent/mortgage. I mean, Im doing it right now, but I am paying the absolute minimum on those loans and some of them Im still able to defer or have an income based repay plan on.

If I were to pay the TRUE minimum payments of my loans each month, that would equal $700 a month!! What 27 year old can afford that and still have a car and place to live? Let alone invest anything into any type of equitable future.

I guess in a way its good because Im trying to find a way to start a side business to help.

But I dont think she realizes how this "student loan bubble" is going to effect the future of America, because soon, us 20 somethings are going to be the primary income generators and workforce, and we cannot support the economy with purchasing if we have these loans hanging over our heads.

We were sold a dream, go to school, and when your done youre guaranteed a good paying job and a bright future! However, for most, it didnt end up that way.

Voting 3rd party is not throwing away your vote!!

Gov. Gary is a personal friend and previous employer during his last rodeo;

He paid me for my services unlike that scum Trump that ****s his contractors and employees.

I still haven't decided who to cast my vote for but it but it will be AGAINST that scum Trump!!

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Trump is an idiot.

Hillary is a criminal but not an idiot.

Pick your poison...I'm left holding my Johnson.

This is my weapon, this is my gun....

To stay on topic:

I'll have to recuse myself on this one because every presidential vote I've cast since Carter has been a protest vote. (Not intended to be taken as a negative attitude toward Carter.)

S&F, though. I'll check back in often, a great idea. (If everybody will just play by the rules)

While I may be registered Republican, that is only because of how Indiana handles the primaries. I don't believe in voting straight tickets (you could teach a chicken to do it!) and am never popular on election day... Not every person running under a particular label is necessarily the best choice for the position.

a reply to: KyoZero

Hey, I wanna play! But I don't really have a party. The Democratic Party takes my people for granted and is center-right on many issues like drone strikes, supporting constant military "inventions" and collateral damage", continuing to disproportionately target minority groups through law enforcement and the judicial system, continuing to implement and justify the "War on Drugs", refusing to prosecute Bush administration officials for Gitmo or the Iraq War, refusing to prosecute Wall St. executives for their actions during the financial crises, etc.

But the Green Party is both weak and virtually non-existent. By "non-existent", I mean their presence is never felt, they virtually never show up for triumphs or for tragedies, and they seem content with being a fringe group. It's almost like they're a glorified book club.

Btw, I'm a left wing ideologue and when I refer to "my people", I mean any group I identify with, like African Americans, American Muslims, the working poor, actual socialists, actual pacifists, etc.

Unfortunately the Cake Party does not have a candidate, because we can't find anyone stupid enough who wants to be president that we could support in good conscience.

We may just nominate the guillotine to run on the ballot.

I'm not registered with either party. However, I tend to be conservative so typically vote Republican or Libertarian if they are on ticket. With that said, I've also voted Democrat on occasion.

On the right, I dislike the christian conservatives and the neocons war mongering around the globe. Being black, I feel the right doesn't do enough to attract people of color at the grassroots level.

I want a small government that basically leaves me the phuck alone.