The Philosophy of South Park (Season 19: PC)

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

So you don't think them making everyone have a gun, including the boys and iirc they talked about how easy it was to get them, and pointing it at people to get thier way was them making fun of the idea?
K.

originally posted by: supremecommander
South Park is only funny to these folks when they're going after people they don't like. Trey and Matt torched Donald Trump and his supporters in Season 19's 2nd episode as well....but the conversation here will be about how they satire the SJW snowflakes lol

It seems like a many of folks wouldn't much care for 'an episode that is ripping on them', but I've talked to many a random persons that surprised me in actually enjoying 'it' (many Canadians, a 'biker', and others).

Me, I laugh at jokes, including the ones that would apply to me; both in South Park, and in real life. People have heard me complain for at least a decade that there aren't enough good 'white people' jokes. There are plenty jokes about white sub-groups, such as Pollock jokes. One of my closet friends is of Polish ancestry, is highly intelligent, and he enjoys a good Pollock joke (as well as loves South Park). Another close friend I grew up with of Jewish decent, is highly intelligent, runs the family jewelry store, and he's GOOD at it. Whenever I hear a good Jewish joke the first thing I do is call him and tell him and he loves em (as well as loves South Park). Another close friend (I mostly have ONLY close friends, as "shallow people drown in the deep end") is also Jewish, is genius level intelligent, and same with him laughs at Jew jokes and loves South Park. I guess me and my kind must be some kind of deviants?

I've known forever that Christian's in particular are very prone to disavowing all of South Park for the Jesus jokes / episodes. One guy guy my age I was close with back in my original "IIB days" told me many times he actually loved the show, but 'couldn't watch it anymore' because of this.

Despite all of these insights here, it never occurred to me there being people who specifically only laugh when the South Park joke is on their rivals. Yet here you've brought to the table this idea that Trump supporters (millions f them from endless backgrounds) are basically all like this? Please do elaborate!

a reply to: Sremmos80

Nope, and many others agree:

The South Park Gun Episode that Liberals Didn't Want to See
Liberals must be so disappointed with the much-hyped "gun control episode" of South Park. There was a big build up that the show’s season 19 finale, “PC Principal Final Justice,” would see every South Park citizen arm themselves and lead to an explosive conclusion, but that never happened, much to their chagrin.

In anticipation of the episode, Crissy Milazzo from Complex.com noted, “Interestingly enough, the Southpark creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone aren't really pro-gun control… Maybe ten or so mass shootings have changed their minds?”
...
Liberals wanted the show to have some scene to prove that “guns are never the answer” – a tragic accidental shooting, perhaps, a mass shooting, or the town turning into The Purge style chaos. But instead, time after time people having guns led to solutions. When the Marsh family pulls their guns on each other some heavy truths come out and they all become closer as a result
www.newsbusters.org...

I didn't get the impression they got into how easy it is or is not for 4th graders to get guns, the way the show was handled EVERYONE in town just had them suddenly, it seemed. Maybe I'll go replay it again, I didn't think of it any different than many other episodes that the kids used a gun as a plot device (PF Changs, World War Zimmerman, many others.

That season of south park could have been my neighborhood. I live in an area that was mostly industrial. Over the course of the airing of that season 5 new high rises were put up with a whole foods, a bunch of yoga places, coffee shops and overall nothing useful. I now live in #ipah town. Its sad most of the rest of the area around me are low to middle income families who are likely to be priced out of the area and their homes turned into 'high end' condos. The worst part is most of these high rises are being used as foreign investment properties by people from asia so they now sit mostly empty or are rented out to rich yuppie kids. I can't help but laugh too. A lot of these places sell for $350,00-$750,000 for a box inside a box. The construction is about as shoddy as can be and they start falling apart after 5 years but people keep eating this # up and buying these places.

Sorry for the rant, but south park really nailed it with this season.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

You mean news busters agrees, the people with the headline about combating liberal media.

We can agree to disagree them having all their characters, including kids, have guns and use them as a way to solve all petty arguments by pointing them at each other as them not making fun of it.

Oh and they do address how easily they get it, Kyle says they need guns, cartman asks how they are going to get them, with the implication of them being kids, and then they just have them.

a reply to: Sremmos80

To honor you I just went and read several random articles, and it seemed like everybody had their own idea about what it meant which seemed to fit their worldview, while I didn't get the impression they REALLY know the show like I do...

In my follow up to my OP I went on about an important formula to many of their episodes: where they take social issues and they show both sides of an argument and take them both to their logical climax. And I believe that's what we have here: gun ownership went full bore to EVERYONE having one (the great liberal crisis), and yet despite being in a climate of maximum fear & confusion the people (where guns dont shoot people, people do) managed to hold their snip together and actually be more honest & grow from them.

I think newbusters got it right.

If anything they took a clear pro-gun stance, but then balanced out their total handling of the issue by ripping on gun shows. Generally the episodes that follow this formula (a formula they themselves have ripped on (Rob Reiner episode), they show both sides go nuts, rip on them, then at the end Kyle does one of his "gay little speeches" which are usually 'lets get along' speeches that often have libertarian / socio agnostic principles as their view point.

EDIT: Yes the kids asked how to get them, and then POOF EVERYBODY in town had guns. They didn't actually discuss the issue. It's not the first time the boys have had guns. They didnt, that is they have never compared obtaining guns to say how they obtained the ninja weapons.

I think they really left stuff open to interpretation in that particular episode, but when you have been studying their show every episode forever, and know they are agnostic libertarians, I think my assessment here they would agree with.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Do you really them resorting to pulling their guns out for any argument as holding their ship together?
You don't see that as being absurd at all?
Obviously the answer to disagreeing with mom about bed time is to pull a gun on her...

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

That review was so overly complicated it was painful.

It wasn't a review!

It was a sort of little guide trying that tried to crash course people all these big concepts (many of them being new for many people still), and how and why they were portrayed in the show, and some of the background where the stuff came from.

For some people (especially SJW's) I suspect it would be "painful".

(Yes they are narcissistic, but it is because they feel disempowered - they feel they are not receiving the dignity owe to them and so they use “other people’s causes” as a way to empower themselves, as a way to gain the voice and dignity they so desire).

Feeling dis empowered turns people into narcissists????

Sorry but you're going to have to back that one up.

It would turn them into nihilists no problem, but give them an over-inflated ego highly unlikely. Mass/pop culture (like MTV) gives them their sissy snowflake'ish vanity, that when combined with "education" in America put the fuel in the engine. Now add in social media Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr/4chan/etc and that's like hooking a NOS nitro system up to it.

Narcissism tends to make for snippy people, that suck. So then SJW's come along and tell them the reason their life is snip, and it sucks isn't because they suck, its because they're being oppressed. And then they latch onto to the latch onto other movements movement (where we too often finding them using them as human shields, because they are snippy people, unfortunately for all).

a reply to: Sremmos80

And then she pulled one and he went to bed. When everyone has one they become irrelevant would be the impression to take if anything.

Please stop trying to frame the episode as per your world view.

I say this with certainty not only because I think I understand their show more than most people, but because they are libertarians, whom have openly supported gun rights. They've done it not only in the World War Zimmerman episode, but also in interviews. Here is one:

South Park creators come out in support of gay marriage, gun rights
South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone have proven notoriously hard to pin down about their political beliefs, both in personal interviews and in their no-holds-barred approach to satirizing any person, institution, or topic under the sun on the show itself.

In a new interview with The Guardian, however, the duo took a clear stance on two specific and very divisive issues.

“Gay marriage and guns,” Parker said. “We’re for both of those.”

“We’re from Colorado, and look at the way Colorado’s gone politically in the last few elections, it’s now gay-friendly, weed-friendly, gun-friendly,” Stone added. “There’s an element of Colorado that I think is in us.”

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Please stop trying to frame the episode as per your world view.

Oh boy isn't that rich!

Being pro gun doesn't mean you can't make fun of an idea. You don't want to see any absurdity of forth graders having guns and pulling them out on their parents and want to frame that as people keeping thier cool with guns. Or how when cartman says he doesn't understand how they are going to to get guns and then it flashes to them all having guns and him nonchalantly saying "well now we have guns!"

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

A review, as in an examination. Like a teacher might say, "okay class, we are going to read and then review chapters 1 through 4 in your textbooks."



You asking that I "back that one up" is like asking someone to back up claims that someone is smiling.

How do we know they feel disempowered? Because they're trying to empower themselves. How do we know they're trying to empower themselves? Because they make issues about themselves out of issues that are fallacious and/or aren't issues about themselves, and they do so in a superficial manner. How do I know it is about their own dignity? Because they make the issues about dignity.

Edit: So to review, I have underlined the narcissistic tendency to show the connection to it and their reach for empowerment - their reach for dignity. Also, what should be evident is that, someone who looks for empowerment, is someone who feels that they, or others, are disempowered. That, coupled with the fact that the issues they take up are at best superficial and at worse fallacious, we know the issue is with them, and not the "issues" - that is, the real issue is them not having a voice, them feeling disempowered as though they are owed dignity.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Dude, as someone who shares their political view & 'unreligion' and has seen every piece of South Park canon [including the cutscene movies from Tenorman's Revenge & Stick of Truth] like 10 times over, I just expertly laid you out pages of notions and examples that all support my argument, and you just keep repeating the same 2 sentences in layman terms (which tells me you're not something of an expert on the show itself).

You win?

They (Stone & Parker) gave them (EVERYONE) the guns! Note how in many of the classic "OMG they killed Kenny, you bastards" line its sometimes obvious they're talking about the writers (as in many cases it isn't a group of people, or even a person that kills Kenny).

The show was to give everyone guns, and THEY did (Stone & Parker), to max up the stakes at the big showdown between all the different groups, at the 'gun pageant show'.

All things considered, to interpret that as they're criticizing gun ownership whatever, and then move forward by using this as a talking point in blanket criticizing Trump supporters??

If anything they were ripping on how some people tend to act all cool & tough because they have a gun, while when made 'equal' (everyone having them) then we can ALL be 'real', 'cool' again. The effect of the guns, once everyone had them, it made EVERYONE honest!

It's like the only 2 things to list in checking for them 'criticizing guns' would be that everyone had guns, and that the kids had them too, from my recollection of it.

From there if they were intent on making a funny video aboot gun control where everybody gets guns and gets to point them at each other, just in this oversimplified sentence of a synopsis one couldn't be sure if their intent was pro or anti gun, but it sure sounds like an episode gun fans would enjoy.

So now go add in all of the added info & insights as I've done here, to still push on the otherwise is an interesting case study...

Alraht, I'm a gonna gew wotch it ratch a neyow. This time I wont watch it in casual passing, but instead I'll flick on a anti-gun confirmation bias scope and see what I see, and I'll report back...

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I have seen every episode too, sorry that doesn't make you some sort of expert on them.
You didn't 'expertly' lay out jack, you have posted a website that shares your views and an interview that just says they are pro gun. There are plenty of pro gun people who don't think we need unregulated give everyone a gun scenario and I doubt any of our staunch gun supporters on ATS would agree that we need to have them to be able to pull on each other to solve every argument. How do you consider that keeping your cool? Go ahead and ask Project or Answer. You don't want to see that they MIGHT have been making fun of that idea, I am not sure if they were 100% but I do think they might have been making a point there. That this idea that we have to have guns on us at all times to feel safe and be ready to use them for anything.
Why do you think they had Cartman use so much voice inflection when he first asked how are we going to get guns and then the next scene says well now they have them so nonchalantly as if it was much easier then he thought it would be?

Alraht, I'm a gonna gew wotch it ratch a neyow. This time I wont watch it in casual passing, but instead I'll flick on a anti-gun confirmation bias scope and see what I see, and I'll report back...

No you just have your "Matt and Trey would never say anything bad about guns" scope on.
I am not being anti gun, me saying it is absurd for fourth graders to have guns and be pulling them out for disagreeing with mom about bed time is not being anti gun....
Sounds like you are so dead set on it being nothing but a pro gun message you refuse to accept that it might be possible it wasn't.
They have made fun of both gay people and have a whole episode on how weed can be bad, but hey they are also pro on both of those stances.
Just because you agree with something doesn't mean you can't make fun of aspects of it.

a reply to: Sremmos80

My findings from while reviewing the episode again very closely, just for you.

Right at the beginning fear of the conspiracy is the talking point, then in response "we gotta gets guns"... "how we gonna get guns"? Screen flashes to them having them. Take a good look at Kenny (the poorest family/kid in South Park). Explain how he has 2 guns if the Writers aren't the ones who gave them to him, please. Now in this vein please explain how every kid in town (except handicapped Jimmy, on crutches) also gets them, and for extra credit make it make sense how all the kids have them and all the parents while at first surprised by them having them they always let them keep them too.

To me it speaks a lot to a lot of it just them having fun going over the top as usual with a plot device. And sure they made fun of some gun culture stuff (i.e. gun show), but at the end of the day the FACT is everyone having guns played out as literal therapy in each instance they were pulled. "Damn, these things are amazing - Randy Marsh

Lastly, at the end of the gun pageant showdown, where everyone finally agreed they all need to work together (to defeat their metaphor of the Patriarchy), in the final word in the episode on the subject, Randy said "if only we all had these before". If they are supposed to have take sides on this, tell me that isn't gun advocacy with a straight look on your emoticon!

originally posted by: Sremmos80
I have seen every episode too, sorry that doesn't make you some sort of expert on them.
You didn't 'expertly' lay out jack, you have posted a website that shares your views and an interview that just says they are pro gun.

You forgot how I also showed they support guns. Then multiple talking points, where brought in were multiple specific episodes and formula(s) and concepts from the series.

Glad to see you finally making an effort...

There are plenty of pro gun people who don't think we need unregulated give everyone a gun scenario and I doubt any of our staunch gun supporters on ATS would agree that we need to have them to be able to pull on each other to solve every argument. How do you consider that keeping your cool? Go ahead and ask Project or Answer.

Of course nobody would argue that; But even when it happened nobody got shot because of it (instead THERAPY!).

You don't want to see that they MIGHT have been making fun of that idea, I am not sure if they were 100% but I do think they might have been making a point there. That this idea that we have to have guns on us at all times to feel safe and be ready to use them for anything.

Now you're starting to make sense. BUT, there actually is a huge conspiracy unfolding hot at this point in the story, so having guns to be / feel safe isn't irrational. Them pulling them out to solve ALL of their problems was funny in execution, and could be construed in some way as being aboot some sort of absurdity in human affairs, but I'm not sure right now where that would fit. At the end of each encouter they did play out as therapy / made everyone involved become totally honest.

The conversation between Jimmy & Nathan is relevant here: Jimmy: "guns are never the answer"; Nathan: "dont chu kinda wish you had one back when Leslie betrayed you and nearly beat you to death"; Jimmy: "oh, I guess it would a been a decent answer then. totototoo chez! (smile on face)".

Why do you think they had Cartman use so much voice inflection when he first asked how are we going to get guns and then the next scene says well now they have them so nonchalantly as if it was much easier then he thought it would be?

The writers gave them to them (as I already argued). Here it is the same day, presumably after they left school, and all the sudden they all have them together at once. Even if one kid brought them from dads house, well it doesn't make sense considering Kenny the poor kid is decked out with dual handguns. Then we have all the other 4th graders (Nathan, Token, etc) all getting them just the same, with everybody else.

I am not being anti gun, me saying it is absurd for fourth graders to have guns and be pulling them out for disagreeing with mom about bed time is not being anti gun....

No.

But when I look at the following, with the obvious calling out conservative types, it seems obvious you're arguing it was an anti-gun episode being enough to turn conservatives / gun people on South Park so much that they wont even reference the anti-PC messages anymore because of it.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Every one was all about Southpark a little bit ago with pc principle, which was really funny, until they made fun of guns and they every one stopped talking about it on ats. Wonder why.

Sounds like you are so dead set on it being nothing but a pro gun message you refuse to accept that it might be possible it wasn't.

You've got your binary mixed up. Now that I've watched it again and added it all up, I'm more taking that position. I hadn't read too deep into it before today (while up above my argument was that they kind of left it all open to interpretation).

I will agree with you that even IF they were "ripping on" 'guns', it wouldn't mean they're against them (while we know they aren't). They rip on themselves / the show all the time. The beginning of this episode even!

So here's the bigger issue you've brought into this, just because they filled the show with guns and comedy sprayed from them (instead of bullets), doesn't mean that gun people took offense to any of it. When a biker reported dying of laughter about the Harley Davidson episode, think aboot it!

Haven't seen any of season 19 but I gotta say I think they way they make fun of current issues is downright hilarious.

I'll never forget that one episode when they put a seatbelt on the toilet so females wouldn't fall in because the men left the seat up. Its so true of the political stupidity of today.

South Park is FINALLY back tonight!

Watching it now. SO far they've already covered / made references to... the national anthem sitdown protest, BLM, internet trolling, feminism, the new Star Wars / Ghostbusters, reboots... campaign polling (Giant Douche vs. Turd Sandwich), white guilt, the CIC Forum, "Giant Douche's" provocative statements, zika virus, Social Group Warfare (SGW), assertions Trump trying to sit out debates... and... Hillary's empty "rallies"! Whew. They were on fire!

HA! They have The Hillary as "Turn Sandwich" as I had her in the douche & turd thread I started recently.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I commend you for being able to laugh at episodes or jokes that make fun of things you believe.

Southpark has many times made fun of my opinions, sometimes it helps change my perspective, but most of the time not. However, if you can't laugh at yourself, then you have no right to laugh at anyone else.

I strongly disagree with most liberals, but found the Daily Show and Colbert Report to often times be quite funny. I hate Bill Mahers politics, but think he is funny. I also am not going to hate someone just because they have a different opinion than me.

I wouldn't want people to hate me because my beliefs differ, so I try to show that same respect, and it appears you do too.

a reply to: Grambler

Dig. I meant to reply to you back then, but wasn't able to.


While it's up:

South Park Voice Impressions