Question for Christians..

If Christ rebuked the Pharisees for transgressing the commandment of God by their tradition, what's to stop Christ from rebuking Christians who transgress God's commandment through their tradition of using graven images? Such as a cross, or fish amulets, etc etc.

Exod 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Matt 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

It's possible Christians have received a revelation that idolatry is no more a sin with God.

IMO, it's about misplaced faith.

There can only be one God in your heart. Idol worship, no matter who or what that idol is, displaces or occupies that space that should be His.

ISIS say the same about The Kaaba at Mecca...

But it's no more an idol than a shrine or headstone.


I gather it's the same for Christians.

Growing up Catholic we had Crosses everywhere, but we didn't idolise them.

a reply to: MrBlaq
It helps if you read it in context. Look at the verses before and after. What is god talking about?
Exodus 20

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them...

a reply to: MrBlaq

If you are asking christians to make sense of the bible, you are going to get about a thousand different answers. I have never talked to two religious folks who believed all the same things.

a reply to: Klassified

Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. Exo 23:24

Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Deut 12:30

Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places: Num33:52

The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them. psa 135:15-18

They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. Isa 42:17

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:20

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Cor 6:16

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. I John5:21

If Christ rebuked the Pharisees for transgressing the commandment of God by their tradition, what's to stop Christ from rebuking Christians who transgress God's commandment through their tradition of using graven images? Such as a cross, or fish amulets, etc etc.

a reply to: MrBlaq

It seems to me that the Bible itself is more of a graven image than the cross, although the cross comes in a close second, in my opinion.

a reply to: MrBlaq

Its one of those things thats been rewritten over time.

Its about not letting worship of things, money and self to supplant our worship of the 'spirit'. Whats first in your life?

How you look, money and stuff , or devotion to the 'spirit'?

Answer is easier than most people will acknowledge. You 'worship' what you spend all your time doing.

By 'spirit', I don't mean entity, I mean how we behave towards others.

a reply to: intrptr

I mean how we behave towards others.

That's already been exemplified by the teachings and life of
the Son of God. But good luck trying to accomplish that
without Him.

a reply to: MrBlaq

Christ was mostly against the legalism of the Pharisees. They let the law occupy the place in their heart that God should have held.

They held the law for the sake of the law and followed the law by rote, not out of any love for He who gave them the law. Their love if they had it was for the law. They held the law as sacred before God.

Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[c]”
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides.[d] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Matthew 15

Basically, Christ called the Pharisees out. The commandment was not in idols but in honoring mother and father. The pharisees used the law to take away those things which were to be used to honor mothers and fathers by devoting those things to God and his use. Thus, the Pharisees used the law against itself for their own gain. The law had become their god.

originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: Klassified

Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. Exo 23:24

Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Deut 12:30

Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places: Num33:52

The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them. psa 135:15-18

They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. Isa 42:17

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:20

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Cor 6:16

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. I John5:21

If Christ rebuked the Pharisees for transgressing the commandment of God by their tradition, what's to stop Christ from rebuking Christians who transgress God's commandment through their tradition of using graven images? Such as a cross, or fish amulets, etc etc.

You repeated your own OP. So how is He going to do that? Christianity wasn't a religion when He was alive. So nothing at all would "stop Christ from rebuking Christians," but unless you channel Him, we'd never know it. This kind of "what if" scenario makes no sense. You can get any number of theologians to say, "Well, IF He were here I think he would rebuke so and so based on what He said and was recorded," but that's not Christ speaking; it's someone's interpretation.

by spirit.....I mean entity....the Holy Spirit

Jesus put it on the line there, calling them false to their faces....false because of their relationships with others, trying to put the lowly others beneath oneself.
and they had this tradition of cheating with money and saying it's a gift for later or something along those lines....

a reply to: MrBlaq

In one word: Nothing.

Our whole culture is sourrounded by images be they graven or on the computer. How we respond to those images is imortant. Do we make those images more real than Jesus or do we see them and hold Jesus in our hearts top and formost? Idoletry is about what are you making more important than God in your life whether it be an image, statue, money, your perfect life, or even your looks.

In Matt 15:3 the idol is tradition. The Pharasees and Sadusees - priest, ministers, the person at the pulput - put such heavy emphasis on tradition that tradition took the place of God in peoples hearts. The priests were able to sway and control people through tradition. People were afraid to break the tradition instead of being afraid of God. They loved the tradition more than God. God took more than just the back burner so to speak in the hearts and minds of the preists and those who followed them. In some cases God was shoved so far back that He was no where to be found. Tradition took the place of God. I believe that in some cases some of their traditions went against God commadments.

Commandement 1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.

Timothy 2:5 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings—a human, the Messiah Jesus.

Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

Know of any religiion Christian or otherwise that prays to someone other than God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost?

Jesus will rebuke those who disobey his commandments.

a reply to: schuyler

When the Apostles Paul, James and John spoke of Christ, how did the Disciples KNOW
that what they spoke was truth vs your 'but that's not Christ speaking; it's someone's interpretation'

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. i John 1:3

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. John 8:47

originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: schuyler

When the Apostles Paul, James and John spoke of Christ, how did the Disciples KNOW that what they spoke was truth vs your 'but that's not Christ speaking; it's someone's interpretation'

The apostles lived during Christ's lifetime. They repeated his teachings from their personal knowledge of what He told them. You might want to argue about Paul (Saul) if you want, but even he had only one encounter with Jesus, who just complained that Paul was treating him badly. All that Paul preached he learned from the Gospels.

You asked if Christ would rebuke Christians. I'm saying he wasn't around to do that, so your questions is simply rhetorical and inherently unanswerable.

originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: Klassified

Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. Exo 23:24

Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Deut 12:30

Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places: Num33:52

The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them. psa 135:15-18

They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. Isa 42:17

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:20

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Cor 6:16

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. I John5:21

If Christ rebuked the Pharisees for transgressing the commandment of God by their tradition, what's to stop Christ from rebuking Christians who transgress God's commandment through their tradition of using graven images? Such as a cross, or fish amulets, etc etc.

You aren't comprehending what you're reading. The sin isn't in having a cross or a fish. The sin is in worshipping those things. Now if you want to argue whether Christians worship the cross, rather than the dude crucified on it, we can go that route, but at least understand what you're reading. He's talking about idol worship and false gods.

a reply to: Mystery_Lady

Jesus will rebuke those who disobey his commandments.

I agree.

By the way, I'd be careful in making the Spirit of the Father a 3rd person.
The term Holy Ghost, and Spirit of God are Synonymous terms with the
Spirit of the Father.

IF you add another you would have effectively fulfilled this scripture

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22

This scripture does NOT say Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. - the Holy Ghost simply means the Sprit of God. (Spirit of the Father)

The apostles lived during Christ's lifetime. They repeated his teachings from their personal knowledge of what He told them. You might want to argue about Paul (Saul) if you want, but even he had only one encounter with Jesus, who just complained that Paul was treating him badly. All that Paul preached he learned from the Gospels. You asked if Christ would rebuke Christians. I'm saying he wasn't around to do that, so your questions is simply rhetorical and inherently unanswerable.

The scriptures make it plain that Christ disciples are TAUGHT of God - before & after Christ
resurrection. Christ stated many times that it was his fathers teachings and not
his own he was teaching to his disciples.

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father HATH TAUGHT ME, I speak these things. John 8:28

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all TAUGHT of God. Every man therefore that hath HEARD, and hath LEARNED of the Father, cometh unto me. John 6:45

originally posted by: MrBlaq

The apostles lived during Christ's lifetime. They repeated his teachings from their personal knowledge of what He told them. You might want to argue about Paul (Saul) if you want, but even he had only one encounter with Jesus, who just complained that Paul was treating him badly. All that Paul preached he learned from the Gospels. You asked if Christ would rebuke Christians. I'm saying he wasn't around to do that, so your questions is simply rhetorical and inherently unanswerable.

The scriptures make it plain that Christ disciples are TAUGHT of God - before & after Christ resurrection. Christ stated many times that it was his fathers teachings and not his own he was teaching to his disciples.

Irrelevant. To me you are making zero sense. First you ask if Christ would rebuke Christians. Now you're telling us he relayed God's teachings. You're not even addressing your own issue here. If you can't even stay on your own topic, there's no point in discussing this non-issue.

a reply to: schuyler

Irrelevant. To me you are making zero sense. First you ask if Christ would rebuke Christians. Now you're telling us he relayed God's teachings. You're not even addressing your own issue here. If you can't even stay on your own topic, there's no point in discussing this non-issue. You asked if Christ would rebuke Christians. I'm saying he wasn't around to do that, so your questions is simply rhetorical and inherently unanswerable.

The below scriptures is why it's not rhetorical and inherently unanswerable.

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. 1 Pet4:5

charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. 2 Tim 4:11

Your perspective would leave men to continue in idolatry, in light of
Christ returning to judge men, that Sir is the opposite of love.