Is Flirtatious Texting or Sexting Cheating?

Intellectually, I have a pretty open mind - anything is okay as long as both partners are honest, open, and truly caring for each other.

But it's easy for me to say, because I am apparently a person who does not easily trust others, and although in many areas of my life (hobbies, jobs, homes....) I may seem to flit around like a butterfly always trying new things, I find my sense of security in being intimate with only one person.
So far, my husband seems to be like me- he might fantasize about sexual adventures with others, but there is like a deep insecurity that makes us cling to each other if a real opportunity arises. It is more a weakness than a strength.

I've found it interesting to see how the french feel about this subject. It is not true that it is a cultural tradition to have extra- marital sex and affairs. However, they LOVE to flirt and they think it is good for you to do so!
They consider it harmless, and that it revs up your self confidence and libido (for your partner to reap the benefits of...). At dinner parties, for example, there is a always people who make a scene out of open flirting at the table, even as their spouse is there. It is sort of to entertain everyone.

But it stops there, generally. It's almost like, if you are flirting openly, making sexual innuendos in front everyone, then you have rendered the spark of attraction harmless and powerless- you can't actually do anything for real becaus everyone has their eyes on you and sneaking around would get impossible. But secret flirting, sexting, for example...that is considered more risky, dishonest, and cheating.

There is, at the base, this idea they have that love rules over everything in the end, and it can get you at any moment.
You can have all the good will in the world to remain faithful, but if someone walks in the door and you fall, there is nothing you can do and it isn't your fault, and it isn't that of your spouse; it doesn't even mean there was anything wrong with the first relationship... "c'est la vie".

I find this view very troubling, as an american that prefers to think of emotions as something I have power over- that makes me feel secure. But that's just it! When you believe you could drift off at any moment against your will, it makes you cling harder!

If you have to be sneaky, it's cheating.

a reply to: Profusion

In itself? No. With time spent and invested in doing it...makes it yes. It takes away a small percentage from the marriage or relationship.

I know and now understand that due to 30 years touring around the world as a musician. And 2 divorces. (1st? My fault. 2nd? Her fault). This one? Still married 27 years to a much younger wife.

Flirting itself...is just that. ACTING on it is the issue.

originally posted by: Profusion
a reply to: Boadicea

This is the best answer possible. You described the issue perfectly. Those who deny your answer are anti-human freedom in my opinion.

I think of sexting and pornography (extreme cases excluded) as being matters of pure fantasy. How can fantasy become a "sin"?

I guess it's ingrained in Western culture because of Jesus' words:

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So, somehow that idea is programmed into people's heads in the West.

The concept of thoughts being "sin" makes no sense to me at all.

But it's not fantasy. They aren't talking about "thinking about other women" or "picturing people naked". They are talking about very specific actions that have real world consequences. Who's the third person you're sexting with? What do they think of your relationship? And yes, watching porn does have an effect on the way you perform real sex. All of these things have to be negotiated in a relationship. If you have to hide it, it's wrong and you shouldn't do it. I think more people are OK with porn in relationships than sexting someone else. I would leave someone if I caught them sexting. I left my most recent ex because he was online stalking a coworker. Creepy!!!!

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: Profusion

Almost all of that is cheating.

I sort of feel bad for the younger people because they have been fed so much BS that apparent things don't seem apparent.

Yes, if you hump another woman you're cheating. That's an affair. That's cheating.

If you get your jollies by flirting with or chatting with or sending naked pictures with another woman.... That's an emotional affair. That's cheating.

It's not very complicated.

Yep, simple and agreed! Pretty much wrote what I was gonna write!

If you have no intention to cheat then you wouldn't put yourself in situations where it could arise, that in itself is dishonest in my opinion! it's the intention, whether you want to admit it or not, and let's be honest, most people won't admit it!
Communication and honesty, it doesn't need to be difficult, people are people though ...

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Profusion

Got caught didn't you.

No. I don't break rules in relationships. I'm extremely careful about respecting the wishes of my significant other at all times.

originally posted by: Boadicea
You're probably right. Although it probably comes down to individual interpretation.... and application. Is "lust" simply recognizing and acknowledging the beauty of a man/woman? I wouldn't call that lust. But if it goes farther than that, monopolizing the person's thoughts and or actions, and takes away from the ongoing relationship, then it is a form of adultery.

I agree with your definition of adultery. That's a critical point because the definition each person has of "adultery" is probably the main issue concerning all of the questions being discussed in this thread.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
Like nonspecific said same thing, communication. That means openness and honesty... telling people your intent what you're looking for and want so you aren't wasting anyone time playing serious... youre a grown adult right? What are you hiding from cant talk to another adult like an adult?

I have no intention of sexting anyone outside of my significant other. Just because I wrote that I don't think sexting outside of a relationship is cheating, some people got the impression that I want to sext people other than my significant other?

I don't see the connection between those positions. Having an opinion that something is alright doesn't mean one wants to do it.

originally posted by: eluryh22
If you get your jollies by flirting with or chatting with or sending naked pictures with another woman.... That's an emotional affair. That's cheating.

The topic of this thread is flirtatious texting and sexting, not sending naked pictures.

I look at sexting as being a type of fantasy. You're assuming that there's emotion involved; I'm not. For instance, some people could look at it as a completely creative exercise. Would you still consider it cheating if the people involved with the sexting were totally unemotional and just trying to do a creative exercise?

The bottom line is that it's only cheating if one of the people in the relationship thinks it is.

a reply to: Abysha

I hope my significant other reads your post.

originally posted by: anotheramethyst
All of these things have to be negotiated in a relationship.

Thank you!!!

a reply to: stosh64

WTF, your sex life will NEVER live up to what is FAKED in a porn video

There was a time in my life when this statement would be untrue.

"I are not speak of love that has come and gone; I only know that summer sang in me that in me sings no more."

I know what LOVE is. Sounds like you have it.

a reply to: Profusion

If you have to "negotiate" in your physical relationship, you aren't having one!

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: Profusion

If you have to "negotiate" in your physical relationship, you aren't having one!

Did you read your second post in the thread below?

What's your view of absolute morality?

You're claiming that the following posters haven't had a "physical relationship" (I can speak for myself, you're wrong)?

Profusion
nonspecific
Squirlli
Boadicea
BigBrotherDarkness
OfTheVoid46
him777
DAVID64
SaturnFX
lightedhype
Abysha
Bluesma

Your post quoted above is unbelievably disrespectful to all of the posters listed above. It bothers me a little because some of those are my favorite posters.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I've found it interesting to see how the french feel about this subject. It is not true that it is a cultural tradition to have extra- marital sex and affairs. However, they LOVE to flirt and they think it is good for you to do so!
They consider it harmless, and that it revs up your self confidence and libido (for your partner to reap the benefits of...). At dinner parties, for example, there is a always people who make a scene out of open flirting at the table, even as their spouse is there. It is sort of to entertain everyone.

But it stops there, generally. It's almost like, if you are flirting openly, making sexual innuendos in front everyone, then you have rendered the spark of attraction harmless and powerless- you can't actually do anything for real becaus everyone has their eyes on you and sneaking around would get impossible. But secret flirting, sexting, for example...that is considered more risky, dishonest, and cheating.

You've just proven that everyone in this thread who says that flirtatious texting or sexting is absolutely cheating is being ethnocentric against French culture. The ironic thing about that is that probably almost everyone posting in this thread is of European decent.

a reply to: Profusion

No. I don't break rules in relationships. I'm extremely careful about respecting the wishes of my significant other at all times.

Ok, sorry. You behaved like you were bouncing the morality of this issue off ATS because you had encountered it in real life.

Mybad.

a reply to: Profusion

Flirtation with another person is a violation of emotional exclusivity.

Unless your relationship is entirely physical (which is pretty basic and ugly if you ask me. Get out of the shallow water) there ought to be an assumption between relationship partners, that their flirtations be between one another, that all romance and titilation be reserved for their significant other, that from that moment that the relationship begins, ONLY the two people in it should be at all aware of the fact that either one is a sexual being.

Emotional and physical exclusivity are both as important as one another in my estimation, otherwise, might as just get casual sex and a therapist, for all the good it will do in the long run.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
might as just get casual sex and a therapist, for all the good it will do in the long run.

What? Why the therapist?
I've been enjoying casual sex for seven or eight years since my last committed relationship. It suits me nicely and I have no psychological need for a therapist.
I enjoy consensual sex with long time female friends who don't want the restrictions of a relationship, and I equally enjoy sex with girls I've just met at a party or nightclub.
I flirt text often to arrange my next enjoyable intimate night, but only with girls who I know are also uncommitted to someone else.
If loving sex is your sole thing then good for you, but trying to make out that casual sex is some kind of bad thing is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

On-topic, if one is in a relationship where they text/communicate in an intimate way that is a secret from their partner then yeah, I'd say it is cheating...because of the deception.

Me, I text whoever I wish and say from the start I'm not after any commitment at all. It works for me, and although you may feel it is not something you would enjoy, it is certainly not a situation where a therapist is needed for those who think otherwise.

a reply to: grainofsand

I am not making out that it is bad.

What I am saying is that if you are not emotionally and physically exclusive, then you might not actually HAVE a relationship. You enjoy your casual sex, and that is well within your right. You may be emotionally nourished from various sources, to handle the mind and soul as well as the body. That is great, but you are not fooling yourself into believing you have a relationship on the go.

A relationship has to have either emotional, or physical exclusivity, or both, otherwise it is just casual sex with a bunch of complications added to it. I am in no way trying to slander or do injustice to those who want to get their thing on, without any strings attached. Just because I do not roll that way, does not mean it is wrong.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Ah, totally understand then
I have deep emotional connections with my female friends, just we have no-strings sex on occasions, and don't fool ourselves that the sex is anything other than enjoying sex with someone 'safe' if you know what I mean.

I have been seeing a lovely particular friend a lot more often lately, she is from Czech and we've been friends a decade or so.
She cooks me fantastic food and we have excellent fun together, but I'm thinking she's starting to want more of a committed relationship even though I've said I don't, so I've held back this last weekend to cool things down a little.

There most definitely are complications, such as I've just described, as there are in all aspects of human interaction.
Perhaps that is why I don't want to commit as I know flirting etc would be cheating, and to be honest, I actually love the flirting and the 'chase' just for the excitement.

...maybe I haven't found the right one yet, or I'm just a slut. Probably the latter.

originally posted by: Profusion

You've just proven that everyone in this thread who says that flirtatious texting or sexting is absolutely cheating is being ethnocentric against French culture. The ironic thing about that is that probably almost everyone posting in this thread is of European decent.

What absolute rubbish.

I did nothing of the sort.

Having a different set of ethics than another group, or individual, doesn't make you "against" them.

I do not share the ethics of those who think it wrong to eat pork,
yet I am not "against" them. I am fine with them having those ethics and living by them.

Secondly, you did not read the phrase I wrote that you even quoted

But secret flirting, sexting, for example...that is considered more risky, dishonest, and cheating.

So this, I pointed out, is the same in American and French culture.
The only thing I said is different between these two cultures is the open, joking sort of flirting that is done in front of a group as a source of amusement.

Thirdly, "Europe" is not France. Europe is made up of many countries, all with very different ethics and morals in their culture. English culture, for example, is very different from the French in term of their ethics on relationships.

originally posted by: Bluesma
The only thing I said is different between these two cultures is the open, joking sort of flirting that is done in front of a group as a source of amusement.

I know what you mean there, and many friends in my social circles flirt 'jokingly' and openly.
Personally I won't even go there with female friends who are in a relationship, so I keep it absolutely platonic in any conversations, even drunk.

Last weekend a mates girlfriend was being way too suggestive and all touchy feely which made me feel uncomfortable so I moved quick and mingled elsewhere in the party.
I'd have acted completely different if she was single but I won't flirt back because to be fair it would be a slippery slope and I can't trust my will to say no if it went that way.
Nip it in the bud is my personal mantra...especially when intoxicated.

a reply to: Profusion

Well, do you tell the person your with, oh hey btw sexting isnt cheating to me? or do you kinda just let that info slide by... in a what they dont know sort of thing.

I personally dont care what you do... it's your karma but if you dont have that conversation up front man you know it's wrong yourself if such is the case... not the sexting bit... but the cant be up front gotta be a sneaky weasel about your perversion. Im telling you be up front get that crap out of your system, a lot of women are down with honesty and will be impressed your not hiding simple stuff like some second rate loser that cant grow up and be what a real man is.

A real man will stand alone in very single last conviction whether anyone else agrees its right or not... if you havent noticed it's why so many people have paid respects to that jesus fellow for over 2000 years.

originally posted by: intrptr
Ok, sorry. You behaved like you were bouncing the morality of this issue off ATS because you had encountered it in real life.

Mybad.

No problem.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Flirtation with another person is a violation of emotional exclusivity.

No one in this thread (except for me) has dealt with the issue of swingers. I wonder how you would judge them?

originally posted by: grainofsand
I have deep emotional connections with my female friends, just we have no-strings sex on occasions, and don't fool ourselves that the sex is anything other than enjoying sex with someone 'safe' if you know what I mean.

You remind me of why I'm happy to be asexual. All that work for so little fulfillment.

originally posted by: Bluesma
Having a different set of ethics than another group, or individual, doesn't make you "against" them.

"Ethnocentric against" is not the same as being against the group/culture.

originally posted by: Bluesma
The only thing I said is different between these two cultures is the open, joking sort of flirting that is done in front of a group as a source of amusement.

You've proven that everyone in this thread who says that flirtatious texting or sexting is absolutely cheating is being ethnocentric against French culture.

originally posted by: Bluesma
Thirdly, "Europe" is not France. Europe is made up of many countries, all with very different ethics and morals in their culture.

I was only pointing out the irony. I mean, we're comparing one European-based culture to another. It's not like we're comparing an African culture to a European culture or something like that.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
Well, do you tell the person your with, oh hey btw sexting isnt cheating to me?

Yes, I do tell them. To me, it's part of the normal negotiations that happen in a relationship.

a reply to: Profusion

From what I understand of it, swinger couples provide one another emotional exclusivity at least. In fact, it's a central pillar of the way they conduct business. The idea that a person can go to bed with multiple partners, but always be there to hold their partner up when the world has taken their legs out from under them, is the only thing which stops swingers from basically being cheaters.

I guess the rationale is that they can do what the hell they want with their bodies, as long as they remain emotionally bonded in exclusivity.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Profusion
From what I understand of it, swinger couples provide one another emotional exclusivity at least. In fact, it's a central pillar of the way they conduct business. The idea that a person can go to bed with multiple partners, but always be there to hold their partner up when the world has taken their legs out from under them, is the only thing which stops swingers from basically being cheaters.
I guess the rationale is that they can do what the hell they want with their bodies, as long as they remain emotionally bonded in exclusivity.

Thank gosh someone gets it!

I know some folks who are very liberal that way and the problems arose when the 'other' partner fell in love with someone else. The lifestyle became an issue at that point!

I don't fault anyone their choices in life (adult choices) but when someone gets hurt well then, that becomes an issue.