Abraham Lincoln died today second time: D. Trump was Nominated by the GOP

a reply to: ketsuko

Why aren't you upset with the businessmen and businesswomen who employ them illegally and pay cash 'under the table'?
I've yet to see a thread by any ATS 'free market is salvation' member dig into this problem.

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: dragonridr

Dear Dragonidr,

No body is pushing here a speech against to promote business in America. The situation we have in the country by now is not really created by the few almost extinct illegal Mexican Immigrants, but by the giant flow of Capitals to abroad and especially to China.

I don't believe it is hostility against Capital what has caused this, it is instead lack of Patriotism from people that made those capitals in this market, not in other one, and they don't realize that they can have the possession of them, that is something the constitution and the law guarantee, it is also part of the individual freedoms in which the independence declaration was signed, but those capitals were formed here, the source of them was the American consumption, so it is absolutely immoral to take them out of the country causing the economic crisis you have described exist in many places like Detroit.

America as a nation has made rich a lot of entrepreneurs that were either born here or that migrate to this land, so the American people in general that are who created with their consumption those capitals have all the right also to get benefit from them, they have several times more right to profit in salaries and jobs from them that any Australian or Chinese banker or other Asian tiger ,as well as, any Chinese, Korean, Indian, Malaysian, Indonesian or Vietnamese workers.

America is a nation that was created on the base of liberty, and understanding that all men were created equal, that is in the very preamble of the Independence Declaration, written about 85 years before Abraham Lincoln became President.

So why Americans are moving capitals that were made here to countries that are still under communism or under any other kind of slavery, nations that don't have any social security and where workers live in inhuman conditions? that is not the spirit of the American dream, a land of opportunities for all, it is the same pillage British corrupt functionaries, or corsairs, pirates and other adventurers made along centuries exploiting the colonies.

If companies want to give their back to this market they must not be allowed to import goods made elsewhere to continue selling them here, they have decided to don't be Americans anymore, so why we must accept those traitors continue operating here?

I clearly stated that behind the nomination of a fascist candidate there is evidently a moral crisis, I agree we walked through it along many years before Trump appeared, I agree as Jimmy Carter says that the crisis of values started long time before Obama took office, and that crisis also started when people decided to attribute all the merit of the Capital to entrepreneurs and put aside the origin of them that is the costumers, the market where they were made.

This is not a partisan thread at all, it is one created as a reflection of a huge issue, one that explains why in the GOP convention we have a myriad of great absents, people that gave form to the Republican party along the last 30 years:

The last three former nominees were absent of this convention, the only two former Republican Presidents also absent, former first ladies also absent, many important conservative leaders also absent, only few of the two dozens of precandidates on the primaries attended the convention, the VP slot that supposedly offers a great opportunity to heal internal divisions was not filled with any of them, and the Republican Governor of the Ohio, the state where this is happening also is also absent.

With all respect only a blind person can't see the dramatic difference with respect to previous conventions, yesterday there was even a rebellion of delegates trying to push a revote to stop the nomination of Trump.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

Carefull your beginning to sound like trump with his amarican first policies. Id say Trump would agree with you businesses that move overseas shouldnt be able to continue to get the same treatment. And your going a bit further than trump banning them from doing business Trump was talking fines and tariffs for there goods. So I guess you and the fascist aren't that far apart after all huh?? Oh one more thing please look up what fascism is it is really bad when you call someone something without understanding it's meaning. From a history standpoint Hillary is more in line with fascists.

From history we would call Trump an isolationist. This has been done before put amarica first close borders and protect amarican businesses from foriegn competition. This is effectimely trumps platform

a reply to: everyone

Psst, I believe the T & C forbid us making posts solely about other members. Secondly, what does it matter how many stars the OP has? We should just debate the topic.

a reply to: The angel of light
So are you a Fallen Angel since you are spreading falsehoods? A false messenger?

Then I fight your lies with truth & light!
Anti-immigration? No, anti-illegal immigration! HUGE difference.

Melania Knauss-Trump (born Melanija Knavs, Germanized to Melania Knauss; April 26, 1970) is a jewelry and watch designer and former model. She and the American real estate developer Donald Trump married on January 22, 2005. Born in Slovenia, Knauss-Trump became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2006.

a reply to: Martin75

With all respect Dear Martin75,

first at all, I am not a liar, I am mentioning truths that perhaps are difficult to accept or digest by the Trump fans, that is another very different thing. This thread was opened as a reflection of why and how we arrived to this point of moral crisis we have in America.

Trump has been for more than a year irresponsibly agitating a lot of different crusades against minorities in this country, as well as, people that opposes him in the GOP, that he like to call establishment. He is a man that harass others when they don't want to be dominated by him.

Trump is not just against the immigrants of Hispanic Origin, against middle eastern ones and also against Muslim Americans, there are dozens of cases of violence agitated in his raids against Hispanic and African Americans .

He dared to propose that he was going to do all what it is in his hands to remove citizenship from people born here but from parents that were forced to come here from those countries.

It is not an exaggeration at all to claim that they were forced to migrate here, in the case of the immigrants from Iraq or Afghanistan is evident, but because during the last 30 years Latin America also have had huge internal conflicts that were boosted by the cold war in which the USA was one of the 2 parts pushing the conflict.

Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Chile, Nicaragua, Colombia, Argentina and Peru all suffered of terrible internal conflicts that took the lives of hundreds of thousands and displaced as refugees for millions in regional wars as part of the cold war. Just only Colombia have had around three million people in the last two decades displaced from areas where the Narco, subversive groups and Paramilitary militias killed everybody that was not with them. In the last decade Venezuela has also suffered a massive exodus as a consequence of an economic war declared to isolate that country of the rest of the continent.

In the case of Mexico they are also experiencing displacement of people pushed by the violence of the mafias but even before by the NAFTA that created huge social problems to peasants that were unable to compete with the US government subsidized agriculture, there are millions of small farmers that went to bankruptcy as a consequence of that economic war.

When the conflicts were not boosted by the political spheres of influence they were by the mafias that control the consumption and distribution of drugs in the USA and that were sponsoring their partner mafias in Latin countries. There was not tradition of organized crime at such level of sophistication and power before in those nations.

The American mob created the Latin American one, after they couldn't continue trading narcotics from Vietnam, cambodia or Laos to this country, either we like it or not. This is not only in the case of Pablo Escobar or Carlos Lehder that were boosted to be drug lords by George Hung, who was already the lord of pot trade in America long time before to met them. The weapons that the mafia of Chapo Guzman has used to kill thousands of Mexicans are all American made by the way.

georgejung.org...

www.pbs.org...

You can't find statistics of narco traffic from Latin America to the rest of the world before 1950 in the case of South America and before 1920 in the case of Mexico.

Nevertheless, in contrast, there are very reliable ones showing that American drug dealers were controlling the distribution of opium in China together with their British and French partners since the second quarter of the XIX century.

www.britannica.com...

afe.easia.columbia.edu...

The Opium War's Secret History
By KARL E. MEYER
Published: June 28, 1997
In 1823 a 24-year-old Yankee, Warren Delano, sailed to Canton, where he did so well that within seven years he was a senior partner in Russell & Company. Delano's problem, as with all traders, European and American, was that China had much to sell but declined to buy. The Manchu emperors believed that the Middle Kingdom already possessed everything worth having, and hence needed no barbarian manufactures.

The British struck upon an ingenious way to reduce a huge trade deficit. Their merchants bribed Chinese officials to allow entry of chests of opium from British-ruled India, though its importation had long been banned by imperial decree. Imports soared, and nearly every American company followed suit, acquiring ''black dirt'' in Turkey or as agents for Indian producers.

Writing home, Delano said he could not pretend to justify the opium trade on moral grounds, ''but as a merchant I insist it has been . . . fair, honorable and legitimate,'' and no more objectionable than the importation of wines and spirits to the U.S. Yet as addiction became epidemic, and as the Chinese began paying with precious silver for the drug, their Emperor finally in 1839 named an Imperial Commissioner to end the trade.

Please check:

www.nytimes.com...

Now, about Melania, please don't forget that the current Mrs Trump is the third one in his long personal history of failed marriages, so it is very likely that it was difficult for him to convince another American lady to go head in to try to be his fiance.

It does not surprise me at all that he married a foreigner after two previous marriages that ended in divorce.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

You have to stop getting your history from 3rd rate historians. You have very little understanding and seem to argue thr opisit side alot you just don't realize your doing it. As far as coCaine you bought into Internet rumors on south amarica the real story would take an entire thread.

As far as opium and China you bought into a false hood created by China. As u said you are more in line with Trump them you know apparently. Opium trade in china was not created by the west it was there long before. The problem was it could only be gottwn in small quantities through smugglers. It wasn't until the east India trading company started importing it that it became in wide use. The reason is shipping east india trading would bring teas and porcelain from China problem was they couldn't import anything. Having ships sail there empty just wasn't practical they lost money on half the voyage.East india was globalists could argue the first and had a huge advantage they were to big for governments to control. Think of today's globalist like soros.

But what was truly going on was the start if a globalist agenda. The Europeans believe that free trade and the internationalisation of commerce would create wealth for all nations, and the utopian idea that this would produce a new peaceful world order – and, on the other, protectionist China which wanted to secure it's borders. Amd preserve it's culture and natonal identity. So right noe we have democrats tryi g to open borders to create there utopia. And then tou have Trump whi wants to crwate a national culture and control the borders like china. The same thing happened in the US the democrats in thr 1920s wanted this ideal started in Europe.we call it European socialism the EU was a good example open borders free trade

It started out simple enough policies were inacted to put European socialism into effect. They saw this as a way to control the black populations. Many people don't realize the Republican party created thr KKK as well as Jim Crow and segregation was a control method. When democrats started to lose the segregation debate they moved on to social programs to control the population. They have not given up there control only changed the way they use it. What many blacks see as help was actually a method of control. As well as creating intensely loyal voters. This method of control was not as successful on other communities such as oriental and Hispanic.

Now what we are dealing with is the inequalities caused by a group being dependent on the government anf they are not happy. Crime is much higher in black communities. The murder rate is higher and there economic situation is directly tied to the government so has little chance to improve. And we'll there mad and I don't blame them one bit. They were lied to for 100 years or longer.

a reply to: You have to stop getting your history from 3rd rate historians. You have very little understanding and seem to argue thr opisit side alot you just don't realize your doing it. As far as coCaine you bought into Internet rumors on south amarica the real story would take an entire thread.

As far as opium and China you bought into a false hood created by China.dragonridr

Dear dragonridr,

Do you really think somebody really serious and decent is going to buy that? why don't you apply your own high standards of research to yourself?

You came here without citations, without using any reliable sources, no authors, no historians, no books, no nothing what so ever and try to deny what I have showed here citing clearly and without hiding nothing of my sources.

There to much hypocrisy in the demagogic discourse of Trump trying to blame Latin America of a problem that have existed in Europe and America centuries before it was spread to the rest of the world. Any researcher can find easily digging on reliable bibliography that there was a lot of consumption of narcotics even in ancient Egypt, Rome and Greece.

Live Science, Owen Jarus: Archaeologists working in the western desert of Egypt have discovered a school dating back about 1,700 years that contains ancient Greek writings on its walls, including a text about ancient drug use that references Homer's "The Odyssey."

www.livescience.com...

Isthmus, Everybody musta got stoned UW scholar probes drug use among ancient civilizations - Hillman pursued his Ph.D. in classics at UW-Madison. His topic was "pharmacy in Roman literature," and he had the tedious task of poring over volumes of medical texts in Latin and Greek. He discovered that not only did the Greeks and Romans know a lot about herbal concoctions including opium, there was evidence that the use of some of these substances went beyond medical necessity. - See more at: isthmus.com...

Please check:

isthmus.com...

ancientimes.blogspot.com...


I would expect from somebody that use so arrogant phrases to at least illustrate us with his deep knowledge in the subject including references.

There were various wars of opium in China since the end of the XIX so this is not a novel, is confirmed History and some of the sources I have used are references that appear published in the British online encyclopedia, or Victorianweb, so they have nothing to do with Chinese propaganda trying to discredit the mafias that have existed in the west since about two centuries controlling the international trade of drugs.

www.britannica.com...

Hong Kong was a city built by mafia British capitals as their distribution harbor in the coast of China of stupefacients used to slave the Chinese people.

www.victorianweb.org...

Those pirates have probably a lot to do with the slaves traders of three centuries ago, after all Narco traffic is a trade with souls, in ancient times certainly there was slavery but just of bodies, no body ever had developed a method to slave the mind of people. Inner liberty was not violated before the arrival of Narco traffic, that goes far beyond any ethical limits since it is slaving minds of millions.

Saigon was the French version of the same activity, and the Americans that were profiting on it discovered that they need not control politically the region , it suffices to be enough smart to just buy authorities in mainland China.

It was the American Tobacco what made opium an addiction so difficult to control in China. It is true that they knew opium since thousands of years ago but not mixed with that American plant that became a terrible vector to spread the vice to millions.

en.wikipedia.org...

Native Southamericans also knew Coca leaves since thousand of years ago, but the presence of the narcotic in the plant is of parts per million. They never develop technology to produce something as strong as modern coc aine. Were the German and Italian laboratories who were able to isolate coc aine first time in History in a refination process that required a so sophisticate knowledge of Chemistry never existing in Ancient Americas.

Cocaine Abuse foundation: Who invented coc aine? While coc aine has been used for 5000 years, the actual alkaloid was first discovered (not invented) in 1850 by Albert Niemann. Albert Friedrich Emil Niemann (May 20, 1834 “ January 19, 1861) was a German chemist. In 1859 he and Francesco Di Stefano jointly isolated coc aine, and he published his finding in 1860.

Niemann isolated coc aine from coca leaves in 1859. In the 19th century, there was a great interest among European chemists in the effects of coca leaves discovered in Latin America. However, little progress was made in extracting coca's active ingredients.
.

who invented coc aine?

Cocaine short History, foundation for drug free world: Cocaine was first isolated (extracted from coca leaves) in 1859 by German chemist Albert Niemann. It was not until the 1880s that it started to be popularized in the medical community.

a short history of coc aine

Narconon, Drug reabilitation and education: The first recognized authority and advocate for this drug was world famous psychologist, Sigmund Freud. Early in his career, Freud broadly promoted coc aine as a safe and useful tonic that could cure depression and sexual impotence. Cocaine got a further boost in acceptability when in 1886 John Pemberton included coc aine as the main ingredient in his new soft drink, Coca Cola.

coc aine History: Sigmund Freud legacy.

This is by far the worst sin ever existed on this world and has to do a lot with all the violence Narco traffic, a criminal activity controlled and exported from the first world, has carried out in every land has been touched by it, since it is an evil activity.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Actually, I have to disagree with the premise of this thread. Abe Lincoln was alive and well at the RNC 2016 convention.

Abraham Lincoln at the 2016 Republican National Convention
www.ktvb.com...

a reply to: UnBreakable

Sorry Unbreakable,

I almost forgot that Mr Donald Trump is above anything else a Master of Entertainment, and as so it would not be possible that his nomination occur without a good show that can give fun to the people and of course distract them enough to don't notice that key Republicans like Presidents George H. Bush, George W. Bush, Governor Kasich, fomer nominees Mitt Romney and John McCain were not present in the act as well as the significant fact that Ted Cruz never endorsed Trump as his candidate.

Of course there were many others also not endorsing or absent of the convention, the major part of the precandidates that were competing against Trump along a Year for instance.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness