Hague Tribunal rules China has no historic title over South China Sea.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
And what has China got to loose
Financially, they can't claim their debt from the US, the US are broke

The world does not work that way.

China has everything to lose if they were a conflict, or threat of one. For a start, the Chinese population may not end up liking the one-party-state model when the export markets dry up and the Chinese economy dies.

originally posted by: maddy21
a reply to: Raggedyman


Besides, I highly doubt the capabilities of the Chinese Navy as compared to US Navy, You have to understand US Navy has far far more operational experience and its tech is far beyond what the Chinese have right now. IF you are talking about US air force and Army, i would agree Chinese could be a match, but US Navy is far Superior to any navy out there.

In any substantial conflict between modern navies, all surface ships are extraordinarily vulnerable---particularly to attack submarines.

Even back in 1982 a single UK attack submarine making it to station kept all of the small Arg. Navy into port, and it sank their most important ship with without ever being detected or threatened. And those were with unguided torpedoes, modern ones are even better.

US Navy power is useful in less-than-modern-warfare intensity conflict, but it would be very different in a new kind of conflict.

Likely Chinese missiles and subs would keep US Navy well out of significant range, and US subs and B-2 bombers would keep Chinese surface Navy hugging their coastline, or hugging the bottom.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: SprocketUK

And China's tribunal says we don't care about what a bunch of clowns in Hague think
China are untouchable at the moment

So true...good response

China seems to be a little greedy here…trying to hog up most of the China Sea.

Well I guess they think they don’t call it the China Sea for nothing.

They won’t get crazy, though, since their hosting the G20 soon

That might make them moderate their response

originally posted by: mbkennel

originally posted by: maddy21
a reply to: Raggedyman


Besides, I highly doubt the capabilities of the Chinese Navy as compared to US Navy, You have to understand US Navy has far far more operational experience and its tech is far beyond what the Chinese have right now. IF you are talking about US air force and Army, i would agree Chinese could be a match, but US Navy is far Superior to any navy out there.

In any substantial conflict between modern navies, all surface ships are extraordinarily vulnerable---particularly to attack submarines.

Even back in 1982 a single UK attack submarine making it to station kept all of the small Arg. Navy into port, and it sank their most important ship with without ever being detected or threatened. And those were with unguided torpedoes, modern ones are even better.

US Navy power is useful in less-than-modern-warfare intensity conflict, but it would be very different in a new kind of conflict.

Likely Chinese missiles and subs would keep US Navy well out of significant range, and US subs and B-2 bombers would keep Chinese surface Navy hugging their coastline, or hugging the bottom.

never mind

originally posted by: SprocketUK
I really think that even without the US this conflict would be a tough one for China.
As for the undetectable subs, they are just diesel electric boats. They can only run silent for so long.

China feels as though it's untouchable but does that actually reflect the reality right now?

My issue is that the US think they are untouchable, I think that the US are far from it and don't want to escalate anything
China are in no way a pushover militarily

What can anyone do to stop their claims, they can't be touched economically

a reply to: Raggedyman

Trouble is, they can be touched economically. If governments put a stop on imports then China tanks faster than a fat lass off a cliff.


Militarily, they aren't far enough ahead of all those other countries to guarantee victory.

It's likely to be a long, messy and costly confrontation if it all kicks off. The longer it goes on, the greater the chance that the US will enter the fray and that WILL tilt the balance away from the PRC forces.

china "what was the name of the sea we don't own?"

a reply to: Raggedyman

No Russia won't support the Chinese in the scs, they will open a second front in Europe

Too late, they already have and are screaming bloody murder because NATO might hurt them. Incidentally, Russia and China are allies like Hitler and Stalin were allies.

The Chinese don't care about The Hague or Europe

But they will care very much if the only countries that will buy their products are developing countries in Africa.

The Chinese and north Korean navy have undetectable subs, dismiss them at your own peril

Is that why they have to use the same tactics as diesel-electric World War Two subs that could not spend much time actually underwater?

Overconfidence is a blunt sword, France said the same thing about Germany

So... you admit you are siding with the Nazis on this one? It was their overconfidence that destroyed Germany.

History repeats itself in a new generation and you are blind to it

You do know about the Ribbentrop-Molotov Agreement, don't you?

China's problem is they lack both the military and diplomatic clout to claim that territory and have anybody back them on it. First of all China is dealing with Taiwan who has potent military to begin with. Then you have Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Indonesia, and Vietnam who are backed by the rest of ASEAN. And the thing that makes things really bad for China is all those states are backed by the Trilateral, US/Japan/India. And poor Russia has India/Vietnam who will insist the Russia support them against China and China who would no doubt demand the opposite. Of course considering how China never backs up Russia, I would guess Russia would return the favor and just do nothing.

a reply to: Raggedyman

The Chinese and north Korean navy have undetectable subs, dismiss them at your own peril

They are very good those NK subs because they are so undetectable their own government can't find one.

North Korean submarine missing, presumed sunk

www.extremetech.com...

North Korea’s new sea-launched, nuclear-capable ballistic missile and the submarine that fires it are both technologically backward, unreliable, and wickedly unsafe for the unfortunate souls tasked with operating them.

www.thedailybeast.com...


I find this a bit interesting...

The Diplomat notes that Pyongyang's fleet of rusting diesel submarines is capable of little more than coastal defense and has limited offensive capabilities. North Korea has approximately 70 submarines in its fleet, but 20 are Romeo-class submarines built with 1950s technology. Another 40 are North Korean domestically developed Sang-O-class subs that were specially developed for the insertion of special forces into South Korea, along with mine deployment. The rest of the fleet is thought to be comprised of Yono-class midget submarines with limited range, firepower, and operating depth.

All of these submarines are diesel-electric and extremely old. As such, the submarines can submerge for only a few days at a time — and once they surface, it would easy for South Korea to be able to pinpoint their location. Even with many of the subs still missing, their operational limitations lend credence to the idea that at least a portion of the submarines have returned to their pens in North Korea or are continuing to hide out in secluded coves and inlets throughout the North Korean shoreline.

www.businessinsider.com...

Pretty sure we can dismiss them when it comes to fighting the US NAVY and their Subs.

a reply to: MrSpad

Actually Vietnam is more aligned with the US these days than Russia,the next step is piss and wind and gunboat diplomacy but I dont expect anyone to throw China out anytime soon.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: MrSpad

Actually Vietnam is more aligned with the US these days than Russia,the next step is piss and wind and gunboat diplomacy but I dont expect anyone to throw China out anytime soon.

They are but, they maintain ties with Russia because Russia will sell them anything, much to China's unhappiness.

The West lacks the mandate of Heaven so we need a new Chinese World Order.. Ten thousand years!

May China prosper and may its enemies wither and fail.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Raggedyman

The Chinese and north Korean navy have undetectable subs, dismiss them at your own peril

really, who did they steal that technology from.
just about all their equipment and assets are clones that don't work very long.
China’s Military Built with Cloned Weapons

So what, cheaper tech weapons to produce
They are smarter for cloning, not dumber

That and they may have upgraded the cloned tech

You do realize that the chinese sub that popped up "by surprise" wasnt actually a surprise correct? they were let in on purpose to give the USN a excuse to fire some old fogies and forcefully retire them. Also they got a influx of funding too. Almost all of the subs are shadowed this day. and the Norks lol. They are even worse.

Oh that "carrier killer" launching one looks just like a ICBM launch so that ones suicide if launched.

Why should any country listen to a European-based court full of eurocentrists?

a reply to: SprocketUK


But, when does a reef in International waters, become part of the Chinese homeland?, when you invest tens of millions in getting it above sea level. A cunning strategic move , now all America has to do it find a reef in the area and do the same.

Guys, Guys. I think this have to do with US selling Vietnam weapons. I think China is just trying to block that.
www.washingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: makemap
Guys, Guys. I think this have to do with US selling Vietnam weapons. I think China is just trying to block that.
www.washingtonpost.com...

China ignoring international law is why the US is going to sell weapons to Vietnam. That would not be happening if the Chinese were not threatening and harassing Filipino, Vietnamese, Japanese, Indonesian, Malaysian and other ships in the South China Sea. Now all those nations want US arms and US bases.

And for those who think China is right. Start taking a look at some maps and see what would happen if all nations used China's logic for claiming sea lanes. Then you will understand why nobody supports China on this issue. International law protects everybody and nobody wants somebody just making things up as they go.

It would be like Argentina vs UK