Dallas shooting was terrible, but understandable in some ways.

Events like this rattle the public, but rattle officials far more.

There has been outrage within communities in every major metropolitan city for decades over police abuse. It's been a punchline for LEOs to laugh about abusing rights and murdering citizens with impunity with only the occasional one of their own sacrificed to keep the illusion of fairness.

When government allows the abuse of it's people for so long, eventually the people fight back. It's only been fashionable in the news to report on blacks being murdered by police for a few years and NOTHING was done to affect any real change. It's been systematically excused and dismissed and I hold everyone from the police themselves, government and news media all responsible for allowing it. Their answer to tyranny has been to increase not decrease their aggression. This is the result.

This is also the real reason why "Assault weapons" scare the hell out of government. It's not the lone wolf scenarios, it when multiple citizen snipers decide to show police what it's like to be gunned down for no apparent good reason.

You won't hear questions from the media asking what was the real cause or how police should change their tactics, it'll be how they need to disarm citizens faster and ratchet up the further abuse of privacy and rights.

My position is this, It's a tragedy for the families of the officers killed, the same as it is for the hundreds of families that have loved ones murdered by police each year. Police are not the "good" guys in every situation any more than the their targets are "bad" guys. Some are good and some are bad on each side. As a police officer you are held to a higher standard as agreed to when you took the job.

For supporters, before you bash this comment, just research police abuse in Dallas for the past 30 years and explain to me why this was allowed. Explain to me how a citizens life is any way shape or from worth less that someone in uniform. If you want to be a real police officer, it's risky, if you "fear for your safety" so much, you need to do something else for a living because your safety does not outweigh the rights and freedoms of the citizens you swore to protect.

We have a legal system, not a judicial one any longer.

IF we can get to the point of respecting each other again and being able to trust law enforcement, tragedies like this can be largely avoided. But instead we'll see more bullying from every corner of government and it'll be used to disarm the citizenry and further erode your remaining freedoms and ability to protect yourself.

Bullying from the "good" or "bad" guys will eventually result in repercussions. Who's who depends on your perspective and level of knowledge. If you're only source of information is TV, you don't know # about anything, look a little deeper.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money,they cant be bought,bullied,reasoned or negotiated with some men just want the world to burn thats the type of individuals we were dealing with here.

a reply to: Paschar0

You know, while I certainly can agree with a lot of what you said I cannot agree that it is understandable. I don't understand any senseless (appear to be) acts of violence from either side 'good' or 'bad'.

You won't hear questions from the media asking what was the real cause or how police should change their tactics, it'll be how they need to disarm citizens faster and ratchet up the further abuse of privacy and rights.

You are likely correct so how is this murderous event going to help the cause?

In my opinion it doesn't. I would like to know what the dead LEOs did to the snipers on the roof, personally to them or their family members. I am not saying there won't be evidence presented that this was a revenge killing but until I know that, it just seems as senseless as the killing of a man for reaching for his ID.

I don't know what the answers are but I do believe that this type of act only adds fuel to the fire and is not understandable in any way unless those individual LEO did something personally to the family of the suspects.

IF we can get to the point of respecting each other again and being able to trust law enforcement, tragedies like this can be largely avoided. But instead we'll see more bullying from every corner of government and it'll be used to disarm the citizenry and further erode your remaining freedoms and ability to protect yourself.

I don't see that happening anytime soon (the respect and trust). As far as disarming and eroding freedoms, events like this, IMO, just give the government more 'ammunition' and hurt the cause/crusades in the long run.

Stupid/emotional acts of violence by stupid/emotional people on both sides.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money,they cant be bought,bullied,reasoned or negotiated with some men just want the world to burn thats the type of individuals we were dealing with here.

Your comment is typical as it doesn't address any of the points he was trying to make and could be referring to either side really.

a reply to: TNMockingbird

It "helps" the cause by keeping government and police in check nationwide. The same fear for your life tactics used to keep the citizenry in line (obey or die) is now something they're feeling. It's unfortunate coming from either side when it reaches this extent.

Again I ask someone to explain away the decades of abuse that likely fueled this incident.

As for those looking to narrow the view, the riots in LA were used as reason for thugs to rob and steal and had nothing to do with protesting the outrage others felt over an injustice...but it doesn't negate the injustice, only those individuals who exploited it.

Paradigm shift.

I truly wonder to what degree police departments have taken action against abusive, trigger happy police- I don't know that anyone is really in a position to assess that accurately. I just know that the people as a whole have been warning police now for ages- decades, at least- that the abuse and killings have got to stop. Or the people are eventually going to take action themselves. I guess last night is one example of "eventually". Diplomacy didn't work. Protests didn't work.

I admire those that can still cling on to hopes that diplomacy and protests CAN work to eliminate the problem. Perhaps you can take your admirable persistence with you when you explain to the families of those citizens murdered what diplomacy and protests did for their dead loved one.

There is a universally simple old saying: "Live by the sword, die by the sword." When all people everywhere, including cops, finally take heed of this simple admonishment, perhaps we can live in peace.

And good luck with that. You're going to need it.

I think this OP sums things up pretty darn well. It's a sad situation, no doubt about that- but in no way unprecedented. It is where things are headed, and worse, if the citizen killings don't stop. And that is the sad reality we live in.

The shootings of police officers were not reasonable...
But they were not without a reason.

Changes must be made

Ah, see, it's because black lives matter.

So don't wear blue; we'll shoot you in the face.

originally posted by: DeadFoot
Ah, see, it's because black lives matter.

So don't wear blue; we'll shoot you in the face.

Wow, you really missed the point huh?

Obama went on TV nights before and said young black males should be mad about racism, then this happened. Doesn't take a child of two learning his first steps to figure out why this hate filled violence is happening on his watch.

originally posted by: M4nWithNoN4me
The shootings of police officers were not reasonable...
But they were not without a reason.

Changes must be made

You just justified murder by using Obamalogic.

Just so everyone understands your logic:

The shootings WERE reasonable?
The shootings DID NOT have a reason?
Changes SHOULD NOT be made?

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Obama went on TV nights before and said young black males should be mad about racism, then this happened. Doesn't take a child of two learning his first steps to figure out why this hate filled violence is happening on his watch.

Wow, I think it might be just a little deeper than that.

Well...I'm not going to be very popular in this thread.

We the people employ individuals to protect us from other citizens, etc. We expect them to stop crime or capture the criminals so they can be dealt with in a court of law. We equip these individuals with weapons to protect themselves against the criminals and defend the people against them also. It is called "deadly force" and is a last resort or an equalizer when the criminal has a deadly weapon or is endangering the life of another.

We the people are a bunch of crack addicts, robbers, speeders, murderers and generally huge pricks. We have also, more recently, decided that treating a police officer badly and not following their instructions is "just fine". While being completely guilty of a crime (minor or not) we curse at them, threaten their jobs, threaten them with lawsuits, engage in car chases endangering others, etc., etc., etc. And then we are SHOCKED when these police officers get sick and tired of being treated like crap and have bad attitudes.

We have segments of society that commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Black...Latino...Muslim...etc. They commit the vast majority of the crime percentage wise. If you were a police officer and stop a random person...you are far, far more likely to find drugs, illegal weapons, etc. if you stop a black male than if you stop a white male. That is a fact by the way...look up the crime percentages. It isn't "profiling" when you know, understand and utilize statistics during investigations. It is called being smart or...logic. Much the same way that when a child is kidnapped, you look at the family and friends first before searching for "Joe Childmolester". It is far more often a family member or friend who kidnapped the child.

So here we are on this sad day when five police officers were shot and killed. But how has our country and citizens reacted and how did this unfold. Here are some examples. A group self-named "Black Lives Matter" was protesting/marching. A black man with a gun (legal or not we don't know) killed a handful of our employees. He claims he did so because he was angry at "whites" and especially "white cops". Your (not my) President decides to utilize the deaths of these police to push his personal "gun control" agenda first and foremost.

"Black Lives Matter" is a racist group who don't care for any other race or group...only blacks. They refuse to accept that they have problems with crime to solve within their community and instead, blame law enforcement for the crime they choose to embrace. Hell...even when they decide to protest the police they do so by committing MORE crime (riots/looting). They say it is unfair that the police lock up more blacks proportionally while ignoring that black commit more crime proportionally. Simple ignorance or a planned agenda ignoring the facts.

So to those in the black community. If you want "equality" and respect, fix your crime, drug, delinquent father problems and THEN come back and ask for equality when you are equal. So long as you commit the vast majority of the crime, don't be shocked that you are investigated more for crime and imprisoned for more crime.

As for the shooter...he is a racist. Why hate white people and white cops? Is he saying there are no black cops or black people who are sick of the black crime and social problems? No. What he is, is just another black person that needs to understand their own failures, realize they have there own problems and fix them. It is like a dog who bites getting angry for being locked up...because they bite. I could understand the confusion of the dog, I can't understand the confusion in the mind of the human.

Finally...Obama. Every time a black person is shot, killed, etc. he jumps on his soapbox and starts crying about the situation. Again, he ignores the fact that if you play with crime, you may die committing one. He PURPOSELY throws gasoline on the "race" problem the black people have with white people and police. He is just as guilty as Jackson, Farrakhan and Sharpton for yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater. It is either stupidity, a lie or instigating hate and murder...take your pick. Then he quickly switches to his (and his party's) "gun control" agenda. He doesn't care about the police being killed...he doesn't care that he is using the black community to benefit his agenda...he doesn't even care about the black community in general. You...speaking to the black community...are nothing but pawns to this President. And you are doing exactly what he wants. But he wants it for personal and party reasons. YOU DON'T MATTER...and to this President...BLACK LIVES DON'T MATTER! Otherwise, he would be doing pretty much the opposite of everything he does in these situations.

So...I'm done my rant. I wish the best for the families of the murdered officers. I WISH the black community would take some personal responsibility. If not...I have to assume they either don't care, aren't responsible or are simply incapable of controlling themselves. And finally to YOUR President...you ARE a HUGE part of the problem. And you have never even tried to be part of the solution. I can't wait till you are gone.

it`s sad what happened but it was inevitable,through out history people have tolerated a lot of oppression by the authorities but when the authorities started murdering people that`s when the people took up arms.

one example, the american revolution, sure the people bitched and complained about the high taxes and they even dumped some high taxed tea into a harbor but for the most part they tolerated it. The colonist didn`t take up arms enmass until after the Brits started murdering people in the streets (the Boston massacre for example).

History has shown that people will tolerate a lot of abuse and oppression without fighting back but when the authorities started blatantly murdering people that`s when the people started fighting back,that`s the way it`s always been and that`s the way it always will be.

Boith Obama and the media (and those who use horrible events like this to jump into the spotlight, ie Sharpton, Jackson) definitely play a part in stoking the fires of outrage. I am no defender of Barry Obama- in fact, I'd say he seeks to destroy our American values and create social and economic division of the population. But to imply that he is complicit or shares responsibility is a bit much.

I think a big part of what makes these videos so offensive and incendiary is the fact that they're all filmed from the cell phone of a civilian. So inherent in the viewing of the video is the knowledge that if not for a person right there in the right place with a cell phone, there'd be no version of events besides that told by the police officers. There would likely be no public awareness of the event at all.

Mandatory always-on police body cameras would go a long way towards solving this. It would at once make officers responsible for their own behavior, from the first hour on the job to the day they retire. And more importantly, police departments would start policing their own, and in a truly honest and accountable way, not more of this "we investigated ourselves, and cleared ourselves of any wrongdoing" stuff. Also, no more wonder about planting a throwaway gun on the victim of an unjust shooting to protect a bad cop or a nervous rookie.

Body cameras would get rid of the appearance of sneakiness and unaccountability that pisses people off so horribly.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Some very good points.

originally posted by: Tardacus
it`s sad what happened but it was inevitable,through out history people have tolerated a lot of oppression by the authorities but when the authorities started murdering people that`s when the people took up arms.

one example, the american revolution, sure the people bitched and complained about the high taxes and they even dumped some high taxed tea into a harbor but for the most part they tolerated it. The colonist didn`t take up arms enmass until after the Brits started murdering people in the streets (the Boston massacre for example).

History has shown that people will tolerate a lot of abuse and oppression without fighting back but when the authorities started blatantly murdering people that`s when the people started fighting back,that`s the way it`s always been and that`s the way it always will be.

You speak like the SS or the Taliban are walking down the street, see someone they don't like and put a bullet through their head. You post about history and murder and that would be a horrible situation if it was as you pretend. But these people who are stopped, arrested and/or shot are stopped for a reason. The police didn't walk down the street and decided to put a bullet through some random black man's head.

This person (yes there are exceptions) was doing something that we pay the police to stop. The police officer likely did their job and attempted to stop them. Then the person being stopped did something that caused (rightfully or not) to fear for their life and take action. And the man is shot.

Did the cop do the right thing or did he screw up? That is for a court of his peers to decide. Have police screwed up and killed someone they shouldn't have? Absolutely and they have been punished. But just because some in the community are racist or pro-crime or anti-cop doesn't make the police officer wrong. Innocent UNTIL OR UNLESS proven guilty. If you enjoy that...so does the police officer.