Theresa May v Andrea Leadsom in Conservative leader race , Gove out

Machiavellian Brexiteer Gove is out of the race gaining just 46 MP votes verses May with 199 votes and Leadsom 84.
Not sure which of the two is worse , an unknown with not much experience or the anti libertarian former Home Secretary Theresa May as the next PM.

The contest now moves to its final stage with the Conservative Party's 150,000-strong membership deciding between Mrs May, a Remain campaigner with a long track record in government, and Mrs Leadsom, a leading light of the Brexit campaign who has stressed her City and business background.
www.bbc.co.uk...

Our fate is now in the hands of Tory party members.
Politics is like a box of chocolates.

Gove was a little slime ball weasel.

Looked he we has spent move his political career up peoples arse holes.

He would of been destroyed by mad Merkal in negotiations.

a reply to: gortex

A big sigh of relief there that Gove is out, but then, like you say, what are we left with? (shudders)
Maggie mark 2?

a reply to: beansidhe

Maggie mark 2?

That's the vibe I get , it's like history repeating itself.
To her credit she did stop the extradition of Gary McKinnon and deported Abu Qatada but I fear she'll want to install video cameras in all our homes in the name of security.

originally posted by: gortex


Politics is like a box of chocolates.

Full of nuts?

Yow! it looks like both sides of the pond are going to have someone in charge that nobody really wants. Ah well! that's democracy for you er, isn't it?

a reply to: gortex
I have no preference between them, except that I think the leader ought to be the person the parliamentary party wants and accepts. That's the only way the parliamentary system can be made to work.
The Corbyn situation is the ghastly reminder of where things can go wrong if the choice is taken away from them.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: beansidhe

Maggie mark 2?

That's the vibe I get , it's like history repeating itself.
To her credit she did stop the extradition of Gary McKinnon and deported Abu Qatada but I fear she'll want to install video cameras in all our homes in the name of security.

That's been done already with smartphones.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: gortex
I have no preference between them, except that I think the leader ought to be the person the parliamentary party wants and accepts. That's the only way the parliamentary system can be made to work.
The Corbyn situation is the ghastly reminder of where things can go wrong if the choice is taken away from them.

The two systems are not so dissimilar though, except where, in the case of the Conservatives, the new prime minister/leader will be chosen by an electorate of around 150,000 Conservative Party members. The Con parliamentary MP's then need to decide the top two, while Labour must have any nomination being approved by Labour MPs,(35) before Labour party members, affiliates and supporters are given the nominees to vote on, that being one vote for Leader and one for deputy leader.

a reply to: smurfy
Yes, the Labour Party started the fashion in another bout of misplaced radicalism in the 80's, and the Conservatives later followed suit in a more cautious way.

As far as the British constitution is concerned, the Prime Minister is chosen by being able to command majority votes in the House of Commons. Corbyn would not be able to do that even if he led the largest party, because his own party would be tabling the no-confidence motions. That's what makes it absurd that he should be leading in the Commons and nominally a potential P.M..
And that's why I think the Conservatives in the constituencies should not try to overturn the preference of the party in the Commons.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: smurfy
Yes, the Labour Party started the fashion in another bout of misplaced radicalism in the 80's, and the Conservatives later followed suit in a more cautious way.

As far as the British constitution is concerned, the Prime Minister is chosen by being able to command majority votes in the House of Commons. Corbyn would not be able to do that even if he led the largest party, because his own party would be tabling the no-confidence motions. That's what makes it absurd that he should be leading in the Commons and nominally a potential P.M..
And that's why I think the Conservatives in the constituencies should not try to overturn the preference of the party in the Commons.

Yep, pretty much. and what is also pretty clear in the Con leadership as of now, Theresa May, (as a remain) entity will be the Leader, since the other Lassie has a 'Leave' preference. The whole shebang is fraught with contradiction.
Foe instance, what is going to happen when the referendum, or article 50 comes to the parliamentary vote, which it must, with a house damn near full of 'remain' MPs. Are they going to vote evoke article 50, and look stupid, even more so in that the leader they could have chose was a 'leaver' while the leader they did choose was a 'remainer'
That's some hang-up!

BTW, I don't think the Coservative leadership system is necessarily more cautious, crafty is more like, since they use only party members, where the ear is more to the ground, easier to do a bit more nip and tuck than the Labour system.

originally posted by: gortex

Not sure which of the two is worse , an unknown with not much experience or the anti libertarian former Home Secretary Theresa May as the next PM.

The lack experiences counts Leadsome out it will be May . My 2p is I think Cameron , BoJo , and even Gove and Ledsome would be in enough danger from assassination , as dramatic and grave as that sounds ,
people like the dutch pm are hopping mad , calling Britain doomed to grief now we're out .

We were asked , remain or leave , but put the question another way : bound even tighter by the eu , or free of it ,
bindings or freedom ? Pin us down or go loose ? Its a huge question we owe Cameron and Narge et al a big thankyou and some pride in our national character , champagne swilling dodgy dealing swines or not - they know their PPE, and proper decent (BRITISH) constitutional politics is still part of that , even if quite unknown by the common populace.

SO we were asked a big questiion , a massive one , which buggered an entire horde of corrupt federalists: and forthe sakes of all of Europe.
Thats why , perhaps especially bj would be shot : revenge OR TO DERAIL THE PLAN. They pulled a fast one on European Union , and European Union knows it is finished for it ; the federal plan has actually failed . They will not centralise any further the power is _gone and they're annoyed . Only a 'used to be' remainer , an apparent one anyway , will do .
And besides , May has helped to purge out some quite a few nasticists from places like the NHS and social services , to where they belong , like HMPH Parkhurst . Shes got guts,give her that , we'll see what her inquiry brings this/ next year too.

a reply to: ZIPMATT

They pulled a fast one on European Union

The EU are the architects of their own downfall , all they had to do is give Cameron a few concessions he could bring home and sell to the people and we would probably have bought that , voted remain and he'd still be in the job , the EU would be safe.

I agree it will be May as the new PM , I wanted to see the back of Cameron but wasn't banking on this.

Oddly enough , just point of fact re zpost here , there's a new thred just come up saying quite mixed up stuff about TM being bumped off ?
WTF>? Was it you said , They don't like it up em Mr Mainwaring , gortex?

Narge Farage : "well you are not laughing now are you /"

"I agree it will be May as the new PM , I wanted to see the back of Cameron but wasn't banking on this. "

Do you remember Michael Howard ? It's Theresa any day over that psycho home secretary . And , If , our new improved military junta don't like her for good reasons they'll get rid using their ways , and it'll be good for children and the country's moral fibres , as well .

a reply to: smurfy
I have also seen the suggestion that May was for "Leave" in her personal sentiments, but set that aside out of the political calculation that it was better to stand by Cameron.
Just now I read an online article in the Independent spreading alarm (from a left-wing viewpoint) about her, calling her a real isolationist and debunking her claim to be a "moderate".
In other words, the "Leave" decision might be safer in her hands than some people think.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: smurfy
I have also seen the suggestion that May was for "Leave" in her personal sentiments,...

That's complete and utter hooey, she had a serious personal sofa, (Blair style conversation) with a BBC24 news reporter after the referendom, she also had an interview with Robert Peston, both times it is quite clear that she was for remain, or that she voted for remain. (tricky?) She is also claer that she would be deferential to immigration, "The brightest and the best" which means just about anything you like.
The thing is, so much of the referendum involved immigration, but the lie now is, and it's a political lie, that it is all about immigration, in fact it's mostly the plebs I hear beefing about sovereignty, you hardly hear a politician going on about that?? None of them seem to understand also that there is a big school in the remain, 'camp' and who voted for remain, also have anxieties about immigration, should they be expats or not, no shout for them then.
during the referendum many did have a public forum to discuss things like immigration, and it was always mostly about people coming in, and little periphery talk from politicos then about people already here legally. Now and after the referendum, Theresa May says, "We shall have to look at that" in the same breath as, "We shall have to look at expats living in non-UK parts of Europe" Why? simple answer is, she is talking sound bytes that might please some dumb entity, trouble is, there are not so many 'dumb' entities about these days.
She is untrustworthy, as for immigration, and as Home secretary, she has kicked out thousands of students wrongly, with the use of police strong arming tactics, while that has yet to come back and haunt her, (as well as big dibs in compensation on the horizon) That is my opinion. With all the double talk and sound bytes, its difficult for people to see the wood for the trees...that's the idea, so much for sovereign parliament, while democracy is but an idea.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: beansidhe

Maggie mark 2?

That's the vibe I get , it's like history repeating itself.
To her credit she did stop the extradition of Gary McKinnon and deported Abu Qatada but I fear she'll want to install video cameras in all our homes in the name of security.

Me too, she's no Maggie, the Plutonium blonde shouted a lot, but was able to use police, and M15 and spys against her own people for political purpose, (maybe even made a bob ot two as well) No May is a bit quieter, but that bothers me a lot more.

Wrong thread.