Police Shoot Boyfriend For Grabbing Requested ID

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: everyone

The argument justifiably stems from the fact that, proportionately, it's black males who die most frequently in encounters with LEO. So, it's suggestive of systemic discrimination. That's an entirely different thread though. lol!

Well yes and i agree and i agree that that is a different topic. Based on the percentage of the population compared to the amount violent crimes commited by black people or white people that is also not that wonderous. But of course even then that still does not separate the racially motivated shootings.

Which is why i have asked those 2 questions several times for which no one here arguing against this particular officer has been able to give a actual meaningful answer. People who simply shout "racism" based on these sort of things are simply a huge problem of the whole racial issues that we may have anywhere. And before i am being pointed at for being racist my own father is a black man and therefore half my family and i hardly have ever had contact with the white half.

a reply to: everyone

So far i only see a bunch of assumption based on one party's claim. Yet the officers claim should equally be considered which is that he told him not to reach for anything at that point. If that is indeed what the officer said when the man in the car still did reach for his pocket then that would easily have raised the officers elevated state.

Assumptions???

The man is dead. Period. No assumptions there.

This man's inalienable right to life was violated. Period. No assumptions there.

This cop killed him and violated his inalienable right to life. Period. No assumptions there.

"Believing" the man "may have been" a threat was an assumption. Period.

"Believing" one side or the other is an assumption. Period.

The cop still has the time and opportunity to provide an affirmative defense and prove his case in a court of law; the cop denied the dead guy that same time and opportunity. Period. No assumptions there.

People open carry and conceal carry every single day and never kill anyone. Being armed in and of itself is not a threat to cops or anyone.

But if that cop is so skeered of armed folks, perhaps it's because he knows he can't be trusted with a gun, and he judges others by his own standards.

Fact is ... people get shot every day.

Did this guy deserve to be shot? Probably not, but I don't really know.

a reply to: Boadicea

Whether the man survived or not simply assuming that the officer was lying or the man was lying are still both assumptions.

Simply stated this was a racially motivated event is still a assumption for which also no proof has been brought forth in here at any point. And if the cop did tell him to not reach for anything while the man ignored this then the cop did in fact have reasons to be afraid.
And this is what i have stated and asked questions about several times which is also to which you are replying to.

Hot weekend coming in Chicago !!

Just saying and wondering why they don't make the news anymore.

a reply to: everyone

Whether the man survived or not simply assuming that the officer was lying or the man was lying are still both assumptions.

Let me repeat myself: Absolutely no assumptions are necessary in saying that this cop took a man's life without benefit of due process... the cop violated natural and Constitutional law in taking his life... unlike the man he killed, the cop has the benefit of due process and has the opportunity to provde an affirmative defense to prove the killing was justified.

NO ASSUMPTIONS NECESSARY.

Simply stated this was a racially motivated event is still a assumption for which also no proof has been brought forth in here at any point.

So why do you keep harping on the racial aspect? Why feed that racial beast? Why not just focus on the relevant facts? The dead victim had an inalienable right to life regardless of his skin color -- Black, White or Purple Polka Dot.

And if the cop did tell him to not reach for anything while the man ignored this then the cop did in fact have reasons to be afraid.

That's a mighty big "if" when we're talking about a dead man killed at the hands of someone who swore to uphold the laws of the land. It's not our responsibility to choose who we want to believe. It's the officer's responsibility to provide an affirmative defense and prove the killing was justified.

a reply to: everyone

It has nothing to do with race..everything to do with a dumbass cop who has no business having a sidearm or being a cop.
A guy I met when my wife was in rehab for a car accident, he was shot through the neck reaching for his id while in the drivers seat..the id was requested by this dim bulb cop. He had no gun to begin with as this happened in Canada. He was paralyzed from the neck down, he was awarded about 8 million but that does not buy your life/mobility back. I don't know what happened to officer dumbass.

a reply to: shredderofsouls

This is worrisome... According to an article at the Daily Mail quoting the mother of the victim, the girlfriend in the vehicle with him who took the video is now missing... well, at least the family cannot find her.

I'm betting the authorities know exactly where she is.

Valerie Castile, mother of Philando Castile, 32, who was shot in Falcon Heights, Saint Paul, Minnesota on Wednesday night, also claimed they have been unable to locate Lavish Reynolds, his girlfriend, since she was arrested by police.

Woman Facebook live-streams her dying boyfriend seconds after he is shot four times by a cop as his mother says police kept her from her son's deathbed and claims the girlfriend is now missing

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: Rezlooper
a reply to: shredderofsouls

These fkin cops need to be disarmed, not the good decent American citizens who they have been taught are the enemy! Enough is enough.

Sure, disarm all criminals also and Im with you.

There are a lot of different angles/levels to this seemingly simple statement about disarming criminals that's so often tossed casually out there in its various guises. But I'm sure you know them all.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: Rezlooper
a reply to: shredderofsouls

These fkin cops need to be disarmed, not the good decent American citizens who they have been taught are the enemy! Enough is enough.

Sure, disarm all criminals also and Im with you.

There are a lot of different angles/levels to this seemingly simple statement about disarming criminals that's so often tossed casually out there in its various guises. But I'm sure you know them all.

Just as many variables when it comes to disarming cops but I am sure you know all of them.
Sweeping moves on either side of an equation never work.
Criminals , be they cops or civilians, should be punished to the full extent of the law.

a reply to: shredderofsouls

It would be really awesome if, for once, we could just accept a tragedy that resulted in the loss of human life for exactly what it is: a horrific tragedy that ended a man's life. Attempting to use that as a vehicle by which to fan the flames of racism only serves to cheapen and diminish that tragedy, which needs no embellishment or spin. It is horrific enough to stand on its own.

Fear only breeds more fear, and when you feed it, stupid things like this happen. It's like being afraid of dogs because you know someone who got attacked by one. You have no reason to be afraid...after all, you weren't the one attacked, you only heard one perspective from someone else...yet, irrationally, you are.

The next time you encounter a dog, in the back of your mind you're going to expect it to do something aggressive. And without even realizing it, because of that, you're going to change your entire approach to a dog. But if that person never told you the story in the first place, you wouldn't be looking at dogs in general as being any type of threat.

If you truly have an issue with the racial divide, and you truly want it to stop, it would probably be wise to examine your own behavior first. This man lost his life due to another person acting irrationally out of fear. That cop was nervous and jumpy and overreacted because of it. That's a problem. In fact, that's THE problem. And it needs to be addressed. Not the ethnicity of people involved. The fact that fear has been so ingrained in law enforcement and citizens alike that it is resulting in the unnecessary loss of life. Of human beings. This man was a human being. I don't give a damn what color his skin was. It shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Thank you for bringing this story to light, but please stop feeding the fear. I know you edited your OP, and that's groovy, but your subsequent comments show your true motive here. Every time you and others like you use fear-mongering and hyperbole to induce a racial argument, you are making yourselves just as responsible for the continuation of outcomes such as these as are the people upon whom you wish to lay all the blame. And in the process, you are giving the bad guys precisely what they want the most: division. Because what comes after "Divide"? Yeah, that's right. Exactly right.

a reply to: opethPA

Exactly. But for the record, I never said to disarm cops.

a reply to: Boadicea

Reports are that the girlfriend of Philando, Diamond Reynolds is currently missing and so is her baby I pray they are ok!

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: hiddenNZ
Why not just say he had a gun,put his hands up and get out of the car to be searched and sorted,

Cops get really erratic when they're wound up. And at least where I live, if you've got a CCP they know it when they pull you over. I assume that's likely true everywhere.

SOME cops don't seem to be bothered by that. Others seem to get really freaked out and start behaving oddly. It wouldn't be the first time that a cop knew someone had a concealed weapon, asked for an ID, then shot the guy for reaching for it.

I also recall when we were getting FSO training there was this dash cam video I never saw on Youtube, where the topic of the section was 'giving clear orders in situations where there are multiple LEOs'. There was a guy with a CCP they'd pulled over. One cop went to one window, the other cop went to the other, both pointing firearms at this guy that was obviously not resisting.

The cops spun each other up with body language and voice tones. One cop started shrieking "Don't move" and the other cop was shrieking "Hands up". So the guy put his hands up and Mr Don't Move killed him.

Every time I've been pulled over by a cop that seems to be spinning himself/themselves up, I've been excessively careful to describe everything I'm doing, even though I shouldn't have to. I don't trust their training to be adequate, or the LEOs to have any sort of self-control when they get like that. So if a cop is totally Fifing out, and asks me for my ID, I am going to tell him "I am reaching into my front pants pocket with my right hand to get my ID" so he can wet himself and scream 'don't move' rather than 'bang bang bang'.

The LAST thing I would do is reach down toward the door handle or open the car door to get out.

And at least where I live, if you've got a CCP they know it when they pull you over


that only works if you're driving a car registered in your name
this poor man was a passenger

a reply to: acackohfcc

that only works if you're driving a car registered in your name this poor man was a passenger

He was driving..The video you're seeing is mirrored..

The video is a mirrored view of the scene, making it appear as if Castile is seated on the passenger's side, when in fact he was driving at the time.

Link

If the guy had been white, and the cop black ... how much do you want to bet people would be trying to link the black cop to some kind of racial motivation?

It's never about "race"...when its your "race"...

.2

originally posted by: greydaze
a reply to: acackohfcc

that only works if you're driving a car registered in your name this poor man was a passenger

He was driving..The video you're seeing is mirrored..

The video is a mirrored view of the scene, making it appear as if Castile is seated on the passenger's side, when in fact he was driving at the time.

Link

And who's to say he was the person the car was registered to?

I drive other people's vehicles all the time with them riding as the passenger.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

He wasn't "armed" in the pejorative sense that you are attempting to use the term. He had a license to carry a concealed weapon. That would indicate protection for himself and his family. Why would the officer assume the guy would try to protect himself from police at a routine traffic stop? How many white guys with CCW permits end up dead at traffic stops?

Well, we do not know what happened at the moment the cop shot. So far, they found drugs and alcohol in the car, and to legally carry a gun, you can't be having either, while carrying. So maybe this man was not law abiding to begin with.

*edit to add*
People keep thinking im pro cop no matter what, and to murder all criminals! I just want the facts and people are automatically jumping to conclusions and vilifying these cops, when in just about every other similar case, the cops did nothing wrong. Yes we have a witness saying, in her version what happened. How many other cases have these witnesses straight up lied about what really happened?


iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Boadicea

Reports are that the girlfriend of Philando, Diamond Reynolds is currently missing and so is her baby

I pray they are ok!

Oh damn. I read that the family could not find the Mom, but the baby wasn't mentioned and I was hoping she was in state care or family. Where did the baby go while the mom was in custody? I don't like this. At all!!!

Prayers up.

Thinking they really screwed this one up extra bad.

Philando Castile Is Remembered By St. Paul Public Schools: 'Kids Loved Him'

Her full video.


I believe she is still missing. I'm sure I would be too, in shock from this horrific situation. Hope she's okay. Brave woman to have taped this as she did.