Police Shoot Boyfriend For Grabbing Requested ID

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Bedlam


Why are police so afraid of the public that they "spin themselves up" as you call it?

People react according to their personal tendencies, training, and experience.

LEOs are trained these days to expect that every stop is some sort of heavily armed terrorist, and that their lives are more valuable than any citizen, it's "us against them", and that if they kill you, their buddies will cover it up, right or wrong.

So, it's sort of a no-lose situation to plug you for reasons no sane person could put forward as rational. So you get "I feared for my life" and "I wanted to go home at the end of my shift" as mantras they chant. And as sauce, there's Graham v Connor, which states if there is any, and I mean ANY way an officer can stretch his 'perception' to possibly have been that the "perp" was reaching for a weapon, or thinking about hitting him, or just about damned near anything, the jury will be instructed to acquit. So if you're stopped, one cop comes to the window and the other one hits your car and yells 'boo' and you jump, and cop #1 kills you, it's going to be acquittal. This is the precedent you hear when cops instantly whup out "you can't use 20/20 hindsight!", that's the one they mean. Graham v Connor was a travesty of injustice. Because the only gating factor is what the cop says. And you can, of course, bet the cop isn't going to say "I #ed up and shot when I shouldn't have", it's going to be "I feared for my life when he burped, because...I thought it was a gun going off" or the like. And that's all it takes in US jurisprudence.

In order to get this sort of thing 'on the books' you will occasionally see cops step in front of moving cars briefly, or back into people so that the person comes into contact with them and the like. If you've wondered why they do that, it's Graham. Suddenly, all bets are off and you can just blow the guy away with impunity.

Another issue with Graham is that even if the cop is 'clean', you are at the mercy of that particular cop's judgement, forever. No matter how many really stupid bad calls he makes, they're all gold. And they're all washed as white as snow by Graham, which doesn't specify that really stupid perceptions are not valid. The only test for validity is whether another cop says he might have done the same, and buddy, you can pony up any number of cops to agree to ANYTHING another cop does.

There's no provision for the jury to say 'you might say you would, but damn, that was stupidity or viciousness to a level we don't forgive - sentenced to 20 years in prison no parole', because precedent was set in 1989, and 'we can't use 20/20 hindsight'. Which is bull#. If you made a truly stupid decision, you should be liable for it. If you perceived stupidly, and someone was hurt or killed by your incompetence, you should pay. But no, GvC covers them.

So, you have two groups that really rely on this, cherries, and bad cops. The bad cops, of course, will have learned the things we were taught - you can get people to do stupid things by telling them to, then you can shoot with impunity. One example being - a person who's not really doing anything will act mystified when you scream at them. They have no mens rea. So if they're carrying a BB gun and you yell 'freeze!', they will turn around to see who you are yelling at. Instantly, GvC springs in to cover you murdering them - after all, that MIGHT have been a real gun and they were "swinging it towards you". Even if you've recently been writing about how you'd like to shoot someone with a BB gun and you know just how to get them to do this. And then try to erase it when you get caught. It's a free out, because your buddy on scene says 'I would have done that too!' and the defense attorney says "you can't go by 20/20 hindsight!" and off you skip.

Cherries, on the other hand, get explosive bursts of adrenaline they haven't learned how to control yet, and overreact. Like this probably was. The guy likely DID ask for ID, then panicked and fired when the guy complied. Out comes the GvC fairy, and he gets off scotfree, of course.

originally posted by: shredderofsouls

Pull the rap sheet on every white mass murderer, serial killer, rapist, pedophile and all the other weird killings white males commit. Guess what? The white man is still apprehended vs blacks shot and killed.

That is bs. The main difference here is people like Dylan Roof GAVE UP when confronted and didn't fight. Change your meme picture to "which one of these suspects fought the cop when confronted"

Back to the OP, there is no video of the actual shooting so no conclusions can be made as of yet. If the cop was wrong, then for sure nail him, but we do not know yet.

*edit* The police do not care what crime you have just committed. All they care about is how you act/react when they try to take you to jail. I really do not care what the female has to say because in 99.9 % of these shootings, the good kids "hands were up" and other such nonsense.

iTruthSeeker

This seems very different to me than the Alton Sterling shooting. It's more like the South Carolina incident where the guy was also reaching for his license and was shot. That officer faced penalties I believe.

I can't say conclusively how I feel about her filming. on the one hand it's seems imperative to document the incident and she was amazingly composed but, on the other, she just watched him die. To her defense, if she had tried to help or had freaked out, she may have been shot too.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Who knows. Part of me wants to believe her because she doesn't seem to get all thuggish with the cops, she is being respectful. The thing that bothers me is how witnesses in the thug culture lie in just about all police shootings so when a genuine case comes out, it is much harder to find truth in their statements.


iTruthSeeker

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Her camera doesn't lie though and the officer absolutely reacts like he knows he screwed up.

CNN anchor just made a damn good point - often the citizens involved in these situations seem far more calm than the officers. Is there something in the culture of training officers or police culture in general that is contributing to this pervasive issue?

Cop-- "I told him not to reach for it."

Girl-- "You asked him to show you his ID."

Shot four times, reaching for his ID, upon request.

People should be advised how sensitive police are to where your hands are at all times.

When they pull you over and you are waiting for their approach you place both of them on the wheel in plain sight and you don't move them until told to do so. Even then you say , my wallet is in my pocket, in the console, in the glove compartment, and you move slowly to retrieve it. I mean slowly.

They have been conditioned like Pavlovs dog to jump at the first sign of insecurity, brought on by rote training and fear and or adrenalin.

And god forbid, if for any reason you have a firearm anywhere you be sure to tell them that first.

"Yah, okay officer I'm going to show you my ID, first I'd like to inform you at this time I am licensed to carry a firearm and I am armed.

Just remember to keep your hands on the F***in' wheel, in plain sight.

a reply to: carewemust

Maybe.

There are some states (CT and CA at one time anyway) where potential cops who score higher than 99 on a standardized IQ test are disqualified.

I'm not convinced anyone operating at the low end of average can ever function without direct supervision. I sure as hell wouldn't give them a gun, or life and death authority over anyone.

a reply to: intrptr

The officer was not composed at all. The girl was more composed than him and he is supposed to be a trained individual.

And it was simply a pull-over for a broken tail light. (Which, in my opinion, is always code for stirring up #/harassing people). And there were many other officers around so he has back up and isn't alone. AND there was a child in the car. It's just not reasonable in that situation to assume the driver is going to try and kill you.

Versus Alton Sterling in which the officers were responding to a man allegedly waving a gun at people.

One incident is mostly routine, the other is not.

a reply to: Bedlam

Nice run down.

So, you have two groups that really rely on this, cherries, and bad cops. The bad cops, of course, will have learned the things we were taught - you can get people to do stupid things by telling them to,

Is this guy a rookie? He apparently did tell the man to reach and then shot him. Was he alone?

Why was he on the passenger side of the vehicle on a 'traffic' stop?

a reply to: savemebarry

But hey, go have a 5'th of bourbon and you're good to go with your ccw.

That is a very good point.

a reply to: kosmicjack

The officer was not composed at all. The girl was more composed than him and he is supposed to be a trained individual.

Thats part of the problem here. Training. The one they are trained over and agin to draw and fire on... "Man with a Gun!"

a reply to: kosmicjack

For a long while the police forces have had a standard if an applicant shows signs of relatively high IQ — with excellent logical analytic abilities and a sense of compassion — that applicant will be weeded out of the hiring process. Maybe this has something to do with what the officers lack and why all these sad issues happen.

originally posted by: shredderofsouls
Woman Films Scene After Police Shoot Boyfriend For Grabbing Requested ID

*Graphic*

And the Cops have done it again. Guy told him he had a gun and that he was licensed but cop freaks out and shoots him thinking the guy (who just admitted he was carrying and had a license for said gun) was reaching for his gun or did he forget he asked the guy for his ID. What excuses will come this time?

What does this even have to do with his race?

a reply to: shredderofsouls

**** If something bad happens to you and you decide to film ******

DO NOT MOVE THE CAMERA OF THE SITUATION!

this lady was in shock, and I completely understand.... But it's not helping her to the best of its capability!

Lesson here to be learned folks, don't move the camera to talk to it.

I'm not being critical of her, I'm just trying to possibly help any of you if you decide to film something for a court of law etc.

This was the first thing I noticed in the video other than the incident already happened.

If this story is true, it is a tragedy for sure.

a reply to: shredderofsouls

We can also thank groups like BLM, and their leaders, for openly calling for a war on the police. Shortly after this war on police, a few start to get ambushed while in their cars. How is that going to make a cops nerves feel when he confronts an "enemy combatant" who calls for his death? I am not automatically taking the cops side on this one as again, there isn't enough yet to go on. But I understand the itchy trigger finger in today's racial, anti-police climate.


iTruthSeeker

a reply to: kosmicjack

I agree about her remaining calm. She was probably in shock, controlling herself more in front of the child, and didn't want to wind up shot herself.

As to the question of the officers' training (all three of them this week), you know my theory on that. Waiting to see if they saw combat.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Have you seen mention of a body cam yet? I hadn't as of this morning when I first posted and was just wondering.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Her camera doesn't lie though and the officer absolutely reacts like he knows he screwed up.

What does her recording show then? What we see here is her claiming he asked for ID and then shot the man and the officer denying it. And how does the officer "act like he knew he screwed up" ? He just had to use his firearm, it goes to reason that he is not super calm and once again , we have no idea what transpired before that.

originally posted by: Gin
a reply to: kosmicjack

For a long while the police forces have had a standard if an applicant shows signs of relatively high IQ — with excellent logical analytic abilities and a sense of compassion — that applicant will be weeded out of the hiring process. Maybe this has something to do with what the officers lack and why all these sad issues happen.

Where does that claim come from ?

Any cop in that much fear over one man ,one woman & one 4 year old does not need to be a cop. Looks like cop just was so damn afraid he really screwed the pooch. My thing is the "guns out crap" when the other cops show up. Check that damn 4 year old.......he might be strapped. He's so in fear when he speaks after he shoots....wow.