Forbes - Six Reasons Millenials Are Actually the Best Workers

a reply to: Pinke

High grade engineering will always be required, and more so as time wears on, with welders and fitters in the mix as well.

Those who can manufacture a purpose built circuit board for a given purpose will be more needed as time goes on than ever before, as more and more computerisation and automation come into play.

Woodworkers and joiners will certainly be needed until such time as most furniture is built for space stations and spacecraft, rather than homes and offices, and until cabinets are routinely made out of non wood products. Given that more than 90% of houses are still built with wooden frames, it will likely continue to be necessary for woodworkers of some talent and distinction, to train and attain mastery of that skill set.

And as for respect, when someone asks me what I do, and I tell them that I am a locksmith, the reaction is generally surprise and awe. Of course, most of that is because they make assumptions about my character and diligence, based on my appearance, which would be at odds with the reality, but there is respect for trades, amongst those with the right stuff.

And you are right, the necessity for everyone to do management duties these days is a big problem, as is the tendency for management people to require that the staff be able to speak "buzz" at them, rather than actually communicate like a human being. And don't get me wrong, there is a place for the app and program jockeys in working society, but there is no place for an entire generation who WANT to be stuck behind a desk for five hours a day, and take a trip to the massage parlour on the company dime on their lunch break.

We want people who will stay up at work past their bed time, repeatedly, and work like dogs the whole time, as long as they are paid enough to live on, and get enough sleep to be able to maintain their health. We want people who are so determined to learn skills, that they do not mind temporarily disadvantaging themselves, and accepting that they are not going to live in a half million pound house and drive a high end sports car on their salary, but want to live the life of a grafter anyway.

Basically, we don't want yet more Tory gits, whose intention is to ride the psychopathic dictator train as high as it will go, and screw everyone beneath them in order to make it happen. We want honest, hard working, salt of the earth folk, who will work till their fingers bleed and love their work, as long as they aren't getting stiffed when it comes time to be paid.

GreenGunther

I never thought I would say this, but my generation needs a war.

*Ahem*

If I'm not mistaken, we Millenials have been living in what essentially amounts to unceasing war since late 2001. Many Millenials fought in that war, which officially ended in 2014, many died. Did they really need that? Or are you just engaging in reductio ad absurdum?

TrueBrit

What they can do is this: they can get a paper round when they are thirteen, build up a little pot of money, and buy a welder later on.

When I was 13, I was busy with school and watching my siblings, trying to keep food on the table, which often involved begging and sometimes , stealing. As much as a paper route would have helped, I simply didn't have the time and even if I had, the money would not have been saved.

My point is to illustrate that life is a dynamic experience and what may have worked for some, doesn't work for others. I grew up rough and when I say rough I mean it. I wouldn't change those experiences for all the money in the world but they had a drastic effect on how I forged ahead in my life and the results weren't always positive.

It's easy to say: rise above it, become something better.

But, unfortunately, angst ridden teenagers don't always make the best decisions and now I, changed immensely from that angry young man, have to live with those choices and I have to do my best to remedy them.

And all because of the way I was raised, in the environment in which I was raised, if raised I indeed was. Sometimes I feel like I was just floating .

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: strongfp

Don't get me wrong, there's still good music out there.. But the mainstream is terrible, why do we have so many people supporting 'artists' that just waste oxygen? I can name names, but I think all I have to say is Justin Beiber.

Terrible pop music has existed forever. You only hear about the greats from previous decades because they are they only ones that last, but there is plenty of crap to look at if you were to bother digging.

You have Justin Beiber, well the 90's had Limp Bizkit.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: darkbake
but my generation needs a war.

As a milliennial that has fought in the Iraq war (the longest running war we've ever fought), I'm offended by this statement. Go check yourself buddy.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Respect, Krazy

Question, tho.

Do you believe this war to have been.. justified? Necessary?

I believe soldiers standing up for their country is honorable in any case, the middle east war being included in that as their intent is to stand up for their country - I do not believe the men in DC sending soldiers for their own agenda is honorable.

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

Well if it was that hard CagliostroTheGreat, chances are that you raised yourself. If that's the case, then congratulations. You did a bloody good job by all accounts!

No one expects someone to make an effort to learn a trade while looking after siblings and raising oneself at the same time. But those are exceptional circumstances, as I am sure you appreciate, not at all statistically relevant, although personally impactful.

What I was trying to get across, is that unless there are extenuating circumstances, people can, and used to, get on with things whether or not they were taught them.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Respect, Krazy

Question, tho.

Do you believe this war to have been.. justified? Necessary?

Afghanistan, maybe. Iraq, not in the slightest. The Bush admin should be held accountable for that war.

I believe soldiers standing up for their country is honorable in any case, the middle east war being included in that as their intent is to stand up for their country - I do not believe the men in DC sending soldiers for their own agenda is honorable.

Yea a WWII style war where you are on the defensive is far more noble of a war to fight, but I think the time of those types of wars in the first world is long over. Who's going to be crazy enough to attack the US with its huge military and tons of allies? It would be suicide for a country to do something like that. The 1st world instead fights information and economic wars now (where an extension of one of them will be a proxy war in a third world country such as Iraq).

a reply to: TrueBrit

If you missed my previous post - My argument on "Learning a trade" - applicable in the USA at least, is it often requires college/university - Which is insane. Does my plumber need to know who Sigmund Freud is, should he care about the Large Hadron Collider? Should he know any other physics, science, math, etc other than what directly applies to plumbing/water pressure?

I looked into being an electrician, but wasn't willing to take 4-6 years of college, followed by 10 years of training... nearly a decade and a half to become an electrician, really? I learned how to wire outlets, lights, and their breaker boxes in days from my grandfather - It's likely he learned it from his own father - My generation does not have this luxury, we cannot legally do this work without insane credentials. Luckily in my state, you can do your own work, then have it inspected. ( well, anyone's work has to be inspected. )

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Pinke

High grade engineering will always be required, and more so as time wears on, with welders and fitters in the mix as well.

This is getting computerized.

Those who can manufacture a purpose built circuit board for a given purpose will be more needed as time goes on than ever before, as more and more computerisation and automation come into play.

The planning for some types of circuit boards is now exclusively done by computers due to the parts being so tiny.

Woodworkers and joiners will certainly be needed until such time as most furniture is built for space stations and spacecraft, rather than homes and offices, and until cabinets are routinely made out of non wood products.

3D printers maybe take over. Eventually people make their own furniture maybe.

And as for respect, when someone asks me what I do, and I tell them that I am a locksmith, the reaction is generally surprise and awe.

There is respect for locksmiths in the same way persons respect anyone with a connection to security industries I think, but furniture / carpenters?


I think you're pretty awesome Truebrit, always read your work. Do think you maybe have an idealized version of certain types of persons though? I stay up late. I work hard. I read books to learn after work. I don't want to be a manager. Have been offered the position, I never take it. Pretty much do all the things you describe, although I have a desk as well. I just don't know how it changes much.

In some ways I'd like to be a mechanic or something like that. Happiest times were when was doing more manual jobs. Did find people were just as duplicitous, lazy, mean, twisted, and intolerant no matter what profession I was in. Only thing that was different with manual jobs is that people can see you doing work easier.

I'm not sure its that new generations *want* to be managers. I got trouble from my family for wanting to stay doing the jobs I liked. It didn't pressure me into doing what I was doing now but it bothered me. Those people were all baby boomers etc... telling me constantly that I had to 'get on'. I still don't know what this means.

Probably the biggest thing that strikes me personally is a loss of meaning and mentors. I have one mentor at work. Is the first one I've had in many years. Again I think we observe the same things but interpret them differently. I often feel that respect for professions goes hand in hand with the desire to mentor, train, and help people find themselves. I think the lack of respect to garbos and joiners and these types of things is a sign that we've lost the plot somewhere.

That's not a millennial thing though. That was drilled into me as soon as I hit high school. Being told I'd amount to nothing but an admin assistant or burger flipper etc ... Then being told computers weren't the future. That I was going to always be a failure.

Sorry if its a bit rambling, but just trying to make sense of things with you. Guess I'm just noticing that there are huge problems with people's position in society and their responsibility and the responsibility people think others should have. So long as there are generations that think millennials can just crawl up the ladder and grab fistfuls of management positions at will then we will always look down on the people that hold it all together.

a reply to: Pinke

I agree with you in a lot of ways - Computers are really the future, technology is going to, or going to be able to replace just about every job that we can think of. I'm getting into computer programming right now - If I thought I had the mind for it, I'd probably get into 3D printing.

I imagine one days houses .... Actually, they already are being made using 3d printers

I do think it will be very important for someone to know how to do something without machines, though, it would be a sad day for a firmware upload to crash a huge amount of robots/machines only to have no one know how humans laid brick/mortar etc in the first place, and the original code is so low-level that no one can re-create it - If everyone was using extremely simple commands/etc to run these machines.

How many people know binary, machine languages, and such these days?

Not that it matters right now, but if things ever crashed or needed to be started again, I really think we'd have a long, long ways to go, since the skills are not learned.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Things have changed a damn sight since I was 13 and doing a paper round, a problem when I was a kid was the lack of paper rounds, never more than 20 rounds in a good few miles and a population of kids easily over 10,000. I was always harassed to give up one of my rounds because I ran a few of them, everyone wants to deliver to the "posh" houses when doing papers... Point being very few are lucky enough to save for a welder.

My mate's dad has worked all his life as a mechanic and a welder, early 2000's he was made to do college courses because he was never actually qualified as either. Long story short his wage suffered and he was very lucky his employers knew he was of quality work and kept him on. It's rare you get the benefit of doubt or education payed for you, apprenticeships exist for the under 25s though.

You're right though, with patience a love for the trade and hard work you will be a plumber or carpenter. But nobody will touch an unqualified electrician and you do have to be good just to entertain the idea of employment because simply put apprentices (kids) are ten a penny. Most apprentices don't make it from what I gather but it doesn't matter since it's not costly for a company picking up an apprentice.

At the end of the day a job demanding qualifications is expensive and costly to achieve after you are 25, spending thousands on education can be highly unfeasible when your job pulls in 12k a year and you'd have to show some real promise as say a locksmith if an employer was to consider taking you on and paying for your education, would you agree?

I guess really it's not a generation problem at all but an educational one. 50 years ago you'd be hard-pressed to find an apprentice learning for more than a year and if your useless you'll be sent on your way within an hour of working. Now it can take years upon years of learning a trade to become qualified and if your useless they will still put you through it all anyways!

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Pinke

How many people know binary, machine languages, and such these days?

Not that it matters right now, but if things ever crashed or needed to be started again, I really think we'd have a long, long ways to go, since the skills are not learned.

Being able to translate binary to hex or whatever and back again is a requirement in many fields. I can do it, and if you look up an IQ test on ATS somewhere I scored 70 or something haha

a reply to: Metallicus

You sound very close-minded, a really gangrenous trait many people from previous generations have, unlike the open mindedness of the millennial generation. It might literally be the last redeeming trait of this generation but at least it's one we have.

move along.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
How many people know binary, machine languages, and such these days?

You have to take classes on this stuff when you major in Computer Science still. I know I did.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Sorry, but I'd be interested to know where in the US you think that you have to be college educated to be a plumber or electrician. Both trades are learned by being a helper or apprentice and I guarantee that no one has to have 4-6 years of college and 10 years experience to be an electrician. I have been employed as both and many other trades over the last 35 years. What you need is Interest & Drive. You also need to be able to talk and communicate effectively with people face to face. In fact, there are plenty of trades in the US that all you need to have in order to be employed as one, is desire.

a reply to: Pinke


The planning for other types of circuit board not done by computer. I do not believe it will ever be the case that human beings never have to be able to build a computer part by hand. There will always be a use and a purpose for the human hand in the creation of computer innovations in both the hardware, and software ends of things.

And as for carpenters, proper carpenters? Are you kidding me?

I'm not talking about a douchebag who can slap a flat pack together here. I am talking about carpenters, fellows who can knock together a work of art, a finish you can see your face in, a bevel so elegant as to make a person weep, a turner of wood so skilled as to be near to a sculptor in terms of artistic capacity and understanding of every part of the process of making everything, from a door to a sideboard. I am talking about an artisan. Yes, carpenters get huge respect from anyone who sees their work.


Look, I see where you are coming from. But the reality of things as they are now, is that without gadgets, apps and programs, the people I am concerned about would be just flailing in panic. I worry that my son is going to be part of an entrenched generation of individuals, who, if circumstances ever came to pass involving a loss of connection with their tech, would become utterly incapable of applying themselves to the world.

Last week, myself and a friend were at another friends house. Myself and my buddy, were the oldest two there by just four or eight years respectively, with he being the older of the two. The others were trying to start a fire in a fire dish, so as to barbecue some food. These are all grown ass men. Seven grown men standing round a fire, not a one of whom knew the first thing about how to start a fire, leave alone how to make one perfect for cooking on.

Myself and my buddy rebuilt the fire properly, when the original failed. We turned our backs for a bit, and the muppets we were with, had over fed the fire so that embers were too high in the pan, so as to make it impossible to put the grill onto it. We had to shovel out burning and burnt material, just to make it work. Two out of twelve men, grown ass men, who were capable of building and tending a fire.

This is getting worse. Basics, handling the basics perfectly, is what nations run on. Flapping paper and emails in someone's face is all very well, but if we do not stop this foolishness, this reliance on technology to do every little thing we want done, we will not be able to withstand global catastrophes, like another Carrington event, or other events which render technology pointless or inaccessible.

We must retain the ability to always handle our own affairs, and that is best achieved when there are those who can do with their hands, what might otherwise be done by less taxing methods. This may seem foolish reasoning to you, but I very much believe in being prepared to survive. Just because we live in a relatively affluent part of the world, currently peaceful and calm by the standards of such things, does not mean that we always will, and we have no reason to suspect that our society will be any luckier in the long term, than any other society has been. We must always have a solid foundation in labour. Work forces of people whose intelligence is applied to solving physical problems with physical means. Without a backbone so solid, this nation cannot function. It must.

a reply to: OrganizedChaos

work.chron.com...

I mean only some states require some extra courses/college - But even that guide outlines 8 years of being trained before you can actually be a full-fledged electrician... Which is what I assume someone would want to be.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Master Electrician is the top end of the trade. You can't just walk into being a Master now can you? Most electricians never go that far because they make decent money without. I agree some states, even some counties are more strict. But you can be an electrician without carrying a Journeyman card. The card will get you better pay and more opportunity though.

a reply to: darkbake

I'll say this - what I've noticed about the younger generations is that in general, they seem to be a lot more open an adaptive than the older generations. I'm starting to see it more for things like job interviews (no longer strictly a test; companies want to make sure you have the personality now).

I'm also going to go out on a limb here - but many of the people my age don't seem to be the sort that "bows down" to authority; they seem to have their own opinion of the world around them.

a reply to: TrueBrit

True,

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here: I learned how to hack in 6th grade, without a textbook, mentor, or guide. I maintained straight A's in all 4 years of my Honor's Level programming courses, and spent my time twiddling my thumbs at college. Right now, I'm in a company, maintaining large payments between multiple clients, all under my own supervision. To say that my field of work isn't a "real" job isn't the best way to describe something people do for a living. I loved computers since 6th grade - hacking opened a spark that became a passion, and now, my career. My job is just as real as yours.

In fact - Those apps, computer programs, and computers in general help people with their real-jobs. Excel spreadsheets to help manage your inventory (or a straight up database with instant reporting tools), programs such as Photoshop and GIMP to make your stuff come to life (often taking as much time as it does in the real world), and being able to partake in classes, lectures, and seminars you normally wouldn't even know about until a week after they happened.

And, I'll say it: when the EMP hits, I'll be one of the first to die. But by that point, I'll probably be in my 80's, so it all works out.

-foss