Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

a reply to: Nochzwei

Except that would first require faith, and where logic and evidence ends, faith begins. If believers actually knew, faith would be obsolete, not remain as the backbone for what they want to believe. God is omnipotent and omnipresent, meaning he could appear and explain himself to each and every individual, simultaneously if he wanted to, but... he doesn't. So remember, it is said that 2000 years ago God demanded a sacrifice of 1/3 of himself in order to satisfy the requirements of forgiveness that he himself had set in place. So if you are skeptical of an alleged event that took place 2000 yeas ago, he will throw you into a realm of unending pain.

Seriously? Can we get this cancerous belief system... sorry, relationship off this planet already? I don't think that billions distorting reasoning and ethics in order to justify their willful subjugation to an unseen deity that demanded blood ritual, burnt offering and genital mutilation is very healthy on a social and mental level.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Well declare that the autographs are inerrant. The Hebrew and the Greek. Translations have errors, but we know them and can account for that. Then of course there are deliberate perversions, example the Alexandrian manuscripts or the Westcott and Horthe Theosophical version of the Greek.

originally posted by: Nochzwei
a reply to: CB328

Christianity is not a belief system , by any stretch of imagination. it has to do with personal relationship with Jesus

Well know that, but people without the Holy Spirit don't understand that, they see it just like any of the other man-made religions and philosophies.

A lot of people label themselves Christians, probably because by accident the found themselves living in the Greatest Country in the World that ever ever ever was... founded on Judeo/Christian principles by a bunch of honor bound pure as the driven snow, knee bending founding fathers... Meh

We can call ourselves Electrical Engineers too, because we can all flip switches and turn on a lights.

Regardless, in my opinion you identify a lot of whats wrong with Christianity and its primarily a lot of "Gospel Americana", I think American Christianity has been the biggest source of a lot of "heretical" theology and dogma that would have got us burned at a stake real damn quick in Inquisition Spain.

Manifest Destiny, Rapture (I got a golden ticket to ride outta here), Penticostalism, Mormonism, Jehovahs Witness, Christian Scientists, Charismatics (Catholic and Protestant) TV Evangilism, Puritan Work Ethic, etc... Are all just creations of American Imaginations within a framework of our American Ego and Exceptionalism.

I will toss up these two Biblical Quotes that cause me to pause.
"Many are called, yet few will be chosen..." or
"Wide is Gate and Broad is the Path to destruction and many are on it. Narrow is the Gate and hard is the path to salvation and few will find it."

So what am I trying to say? I think there is a Hell and I think a lot of us will find ourselves there. That whole Cause and Affect, reap what you sow, #ty living gets you a #ty outcome thing.

So I don't worry about what other people believe? I dont worry about where other people are gonna end up? I just worry about myself and so should all of us.

Cheers.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

people without the Holy Spirit don't understand that, they see it just like any of the other man-made religions and philosophies.

Like this?

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Nochzwei
a reply to: CB328

Christianity is not a belief system , by any stretch of imagination. it has to do with personal relationship with Jesus

Well know that, but people without the Holy Spirit don't understand that, they see it just like any of the other man-made religions and philosophies.

what about your personal relationship with thor odinson? or heracles son of zeus? maybe the noble cuchulain of the celtic persuasion? surely these heroic demigods of old are worthy of your offerings and respect? just because you dont see them in action lately doesnt mean they arent busy keeping earth safe. i bet they would really appreciate some gratitude for all their hard work.

a reply to: Beowulf530

Welcome to ATS.

Regardless, in my opinion you identify a lot of whats wrong with Christianity and its primarily a lot of "Gospel Americana", I think American Christianity has been the biggest source of a lot of "heretical" theology and dogma that would have got us burned at a stake real damn quick in Inquisition Spain.

Manifest Destiny, Rapture (I got a golden ticket to ride outta here), Penticostalism, Mormonism, Jehovahs Witness, Christian Scientists, Charismatics (Catholic and Protestant) TV Evangilism, Puritan Work Ethic, etc... Are all just creations of American Imaginations within a framework of our American Ego and Exceptionalism.

Yes. This does seem to be quite true, and on topic. answers the OPs question of why we spend time with it (your first paragraph) because we just happen to be in this time and place where Christianity has some domination.

And Europeans, and others not heavily exposed to U.S. manifestations of religion might not quite understand our situation, or why our seeming insanity. We just can't help it!

a reply to: TzarChasm

Nonsense, none of them are opening blind eyes, deaf ears, curing cancer, healing fused backs.

There is only one name doing that on Earth.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Nochzwei
a reply to: CB328

Christianity is not a belief system , by any stretch of imagination. it has to do with personal relationship with Jesus

Well know that, but people without the Holy Spirit don't understand that, they see it just like any of the other man-made religions and philosophies.

yes unfortunately that is quite true. Pity

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

Nonsense, none of them are opening blind eyes, deaf ears, curing cancer, healing fused backs.

There is only one name doing that on Earth.

thats because you dont have enough faith in them. you should try it sometime. history is full of awesome demigods who put their parents gifts to work in marvelous ways, but most of the world just ignores them or treats them like fairy tales from a dead society. maybe if you ask nicely enough and really put your trust in them, they would open YOUR eyes.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

When we can observe direct evidence that man can cause a tumor to recede without relying upon the name of a single deity, why should anyone accredit this phenomenon to an unconfirmed deity? This evidence says much more about the beliefs and rituals it takes for us to trigger the proper mental and emotional mechanisms in order for manifestation to occur. And demons are not a valid answer.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I'll stick with what I know is true. I saw my own leg grow out an inch and my back problems never returned.

But you try it, scream out to them, dance to them, maybe sacrifice an animal. Let me know if they speak to you.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

I'll stick with what I know is true. I saw my own leg grow out an inch and my back problems never returned.

But you try it, scream out to them, dance to them, maybe sacrifice an animal. Let me know if they speak to you.

praise thor odinson! or maybe its apollo we should be thanking? apollo was a pretty decent healer in his time. could be thats where jesus got it from. and then apollo sent the romans because jesus failed to give proper credit for his miracles. the lord apollo is a jealous and vengeful god when you plagiarize his work.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Yeah, try any of them. Call out to them, see if you get a response. Spend a year seeking them with all your heart, pray to them and meditate on them and see if they respond.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

Yeah, try any of them. Call out to them, see if you get a response. Spend a year seeking them with all your heart, pray to them and meditate on them and see if they respond.

its funny how much we see what we want to see when we spend that much time convincing ourselves that its there. psychology is weird. more to the point, i could spend ten years doing exactly what you suggest and it wouldnt make the slightest difference to you even if i showed up on your doorstep with the entire greek, egyptian, and hindu pantheons in tow.

a reply to: TzarChasm

just because you dont see them in action lately doesnt mean they arent busy keeping earth safe. i bet they would really appreciate some gratitude for all their hard work.

I like the way you use gratitude there. Reminds me of the English word worship.

The word is derived from the Old English weorþscipe, meaning worship, honour shown to an object, which has been etymologised as "worthiness or worth-ship"—to give, at its simplest, worth to something.
wiki-Worship

It should be obvious that the Sun, atmosphere, Earth, Ocean (including currents), etc; the list gets really long, ozone layer are our sustainers and protectors. Worthy indeed. And the processes at work, birth, hatching, seed germination, again, the list is very long. Worthy worthy worthy. This is paganism to me, behold, it is good. And we are part.

The mythological stories serve sometimes to connect and sometimes to divide, as in tribalism.

In modern society and sociology, some writers have commented on the ways that people no longer simply worship recognised deities, but also/instead worship consumer brands, sports teams, and other people (celebrities). Sociology therefore extends this argument to suggest that religion and worship is a process whereby society worships itself, as a form of self-valorization and self-preservation.
Ibid

For some reason I can't explain, I feel (love? emotional attachment? something? whatever) for Chiron, and he has no cult that I am aware of. Therefore Heracles is no hero to me, being the guy who killed Chiron. Some people are saying, "No! they weren't enemies, they had a plan worked out between them." Of course I get suspicious, a trick of the Heracles cult? Not so clear anymore who is worthy.

Wait! what was the question? Gratitude, yes.

We all should be aware of our biosphere, and not do those things which render it non-sustainable. As for Chiron, He has his reward, constellation in the heavens for his role in being substitution for Prometheus in some way so that he could go to Olympus (whatever that is metaphorically, I don't want to presume to know). I don't think I can add to that. Heracles? I think I'll leave that up to Heracles cult.

I think I'll take a break now, maybe read what people write rather than commenting on everything. Actually, my eyes are strained, may close my eyes for a while. Good question!

a reply to: TzarChasm

You're right, because I have a relationship already with God. You just think Jesus isn't real because you've never spent any time dialing the correct number.

a reply to: pthena

I like the way you use gratitude there. Reminds me of the English word worship.

i did it intentionally to avoid the word worship. gratitude is to worship as love is to bondage, in my opinion.

It should be obvious that the Sun, atmosphere, Earth, Ocean (including currents), etc; the list gets really long, ozone layer are our sustainers and protectors. Worthy indeed. And the processes at work, birth, hatching, seed germination, again, the list is very long. Worthy worthy worthy. This is paganism to me, behold, it is good. And we are part.

The mythological stories serve sometimes to connect and sometimes to divide, as in tribalism.

its not about being worthy. "worthy" implies something is being earned, something is being tested for merit and found satisfactory. it turns veneration into a competition, something you see far too much of in modern religion and smells suspiciously like poorly disguised politics.

For some reason I can't explain, I feel (love? emotional attachment? something? whatever) for Chiron, and he has no cult that I am aware of. Therefore Heracles is no hero to me, being the guy who killed Chiron. Some people are saying, "No! they weren't enemies, they had a plan worked out between them." Of course I get suspicious, a trick of the Heracles cult? Not so clear anymore who is worthy.

Wait! what was the question? Gratitude, yes.

We all should be aware of our biosphere, and not do those things which render it non-sustainable. As for Chiron, He has his reward, constellation in the heavens for his role in being substitution for Prometheus in some way so that he could go to Olympus (whatever that is metaphorically, I don't want to presume to know). I don't think I can add to that. Heracles? I think I'll leave that up to Heracles cult.

I think I'll take a break now, maybe read what people write rather than commenting on everything. Actually, my eyes are strained, may close my eyes for a while. Good question!

it was just an example. there are hundreds of demigods in literature and art, not all of them heroes. but if jesus is respectable enough to make a 50 foot statue, dozens of stadiums around the world, and an actual city devoted entirely to his teachings, then i think its time a few (or more) other notable demigods were given their due. as long as we are in the business of giving dues, that is.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

You're right, because I have a relationship already with God. You just think Jesus isn't real because you've never spent any time dialing the correct number.

this isnt about "is jesus real" or "is jesus the son of god" or "is jesus the living god" or "is it really not butter?!"

maybe if gods spent a little less time acting like humans, they would discover that sharing followers is actually a practical way of going about things. a billion people could provide business for two or three pantheons, no sweat. this exclusivity complex really gets in the way of a healthy theological economy.

a reply to: TzarChasm

That's the unique thing about truth though, it's exclusive.