Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
Christianity is not a belief system , by any stretch of imagination. it has to do with personal relationship with Jesus

Well know that, but people without the Holy Spirit don't understand that, they see it just like any of the other man-made religions and philosophies.

That's because "Personal Relationships" require at least 2 people to be involved. Not one person and some other fictional, non-material, or concept of a person.

So unless your "Personal Relationship" means Jesus himself is coming to hang out with you physically you're having a "Personal Relationship" with your own imaginary Jesus.

Please explain in detail what you mean by "Personal Relationship".

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

James was written to believers, he wasn't telling them how to be born again. So he wasn't talking about the process of justification, but what we as believers should do. We were saved to bear fruit, period.

a reply to: mOjOm

It means just that, we draw nigh unto Him and He will draw nigh unto us. And yes, He speaks. He will not reveal Himself to someone putting in minimal effort, that shows you don't really care in your heart. He meets us in the secret place, in prayer. Most people don't shut up and clear their mind to let Him speak. Something interesting about the Lord, He is a Spirit and speaks to our spirit. And 99.999% of the time it's not in a booming voice, however that happens. But nearly always He speaks just a tad quieter than the lowest volume of a competing source.

a reply to: CB328

With many its just a banner to fly a flag on and move about underneath it, and always there while one goes about to feel some belonging when needed. Not really different that a countries flag in a sense of nationalism or whatever other group or standard one likes to fly under.

Does one single person define all people? Does an average make the whole group accountable? They are verbal stereotypes and individuals that choose such banners also choose how to uphold them or lay them down if they were ones forced into their hands or born under.

Of course thats the idea of freedom of the individual, and well as a collective people agree to what they want to uphold under such banners, but each one has a choice and of course there are psychological clingings and guilt if one chooses to live under such banners or not... or course that guilt is a form of peer pressure or control of others to have them do as one would have them do, instead of how they would choose to do.

I used to plant my own garden and guard it from weeds and pests... no much different than anyone else, then figured it to be as futile as trying to jump from the earths surface to the moon, things change... and many of these systems do not accept change even when the majority calls for it, some demand a stasis dragging out systems that can cause more harm than good... especially when its belief based and not fact based, even if someone experiences miricles etc and whatever else, theyve grabbed a subject and define with a subect instead of just observe whatever phenomina is arising and passing.

Of course when many grasp such arisings and passings as real and tangible everyday existemce 24/7 and no one else except under the same banner holds whatever said belief? It is basically a mental institution without walls... and well when such belief gets to be so strong and polarized that belief system can become a very danger to society itself. But like individuals it's not the group banner its the individual choices that one takes such extremes of belief into action as a group.

That becomes armies of idologies fighting wars based on any number of belief systems but many times under a banner of war on something, one group with power does not believe is good for society even if they have zero actual experience or limited experience in said experience, and decided to use it as a scape goat already being demonized to avoid any personal responsibility.

But such is the way of things no matter what moral or ethic fly under any banner when people are involved as the human nature is simply an animal with drives that can be pavloved in many psychological ways training and ingraining specfic behaviors of expected outcomes in like an experimental control group that can be predicted... so one can say hey how is Christianity or whatever banner doing? Plug it in and see various individuals under that banner that either represent the entire group under that banner whether the total agrees with that accessment or not.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

So there isn't another person. It's just in your head.

Why not just say that??

Because saying you are having a "Personal Relationship" with the voices in your head that nobody else is hearing makes you sound like a crazy person???

BTW, I love the "it shows you don't really care in your heart" line too. So now you're judging me and my intentions and feelings.

Like I was saying earlier. You're all the same. Same Jibber-Jabber BS. Same Blame Shifting. Same Twisting of Language. All the same Woo.

a reply to: mOjOm

That's how He communicates. He is a spirit, He communicates to our spirit. You don't understand because He isn't speaking to you, my thoughts I know, they form a natural progression in my head. When a spirit speaks, it's a spontaneous thought that you didn't arrive at on your own.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: TarzanBeta

And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.

Yet, you hold onto Paul's words, which contradict James making the above instructions to the gentiles who were getting "saved".
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 1 Cor. 8:4

But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.
Rev. 2:14

Yea, that's just one thing Paul contradicts Jesus on. There are many more.

That's not a contradiction at all.

James was trying to instruct that there is no other God, and that it was already knowledge among those with basic knowledge, to set the foundation for his speech. Paul was instructing a people who had a hard time knowing better.

Read with some humanity instead of judgment, fiend. You'll learn a lot more and you'll be less of a scoundrel.

a reply to: mOjOm

Actually, that's exactly what happens.

You get a personal relationship. And you can actually measure it.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Paul was very clear about ritual law, keeping the sabbath, keeping Kosher

Where do you stop and where do you start with what you choose to obey
Don't work Sunday's? No big issue, just why ignore the other Old Testament commandments.

Goshredak acknowledged the 10 commandments and latter suggested 6 through to 10 were extra special, hearing lies our problem
The laws that are easy, extra special, become more important

I love how a Christian church will condemn homosexuals But won't condemn lust. Simply because there are very few people struggling with homosexuality in the church.

Though I am not familiar with Christian Liberty, I will,go and learn

It's not ignoring the commandments. It's understanding the intent of the commandments.

The Ten Commandments are Jewish law. The Jewish law is done.

But to consider those commandments and their intent isn't wrong.

The Christian Commandments are these: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Upon these hang the law and the prophets.

And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.

If we do these, we will do well.

Jesus has made it far simpler than everyone wants it to be.

That's the reason few find the way. Because it's so incredibly simple. In a world of complexity, that is a hard thing to find.

If cavtrooper wants to consider the 10 Commandments, by all means, let him. That's FINE. It doesn't interfere with the love of God.

Cavtrooper is an adult, its not my intention to decide what he chooses to do with his life.
I am sure his parents instilled a fair amount of common sense into him

My issue remains, if we accept the Jewish law as a standard, where do we stop accepting the law as our standard
Stone adulterers, circumcision, stone gays et al.
Let love be your guide.


and sorry
What is this about
And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.
Do you believe Christians shouldnt eat strangled food or animals sacrificed to idols
Really

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

James was written to believers, he wasn't telling them how to be born again. So he wasn't talking about the process of justification, but what we as believers should do. We were saved to bear fruit, period.

This is exactly where most non christians get confused

"James wasn't talking about the process of justification, but what we as believers should do."

The average bible reader needs to study the word, indepth.
Totally agree with the statement
James was talking to the established church in Jerusalem.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Raggedyman

I love how a Christian church will condemn homosexuals But won't condemn lust.

Since when?

Since it is easier to play the devils advocate.
The church often casts stones out into the secular world where it doesnt belong
just rewad the paper
We dont argue against homosexuality in the secular world, we are christians

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: TarzanBeta

And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.

Yet, you hold onto Paul's words, which contradict James making the above instructions to the gentiles who were getting "saved".
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 1 Cor. 8:4

But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.
Rev. 2:14

Yea, that's just one thing Paul contradicts Jesus on. There are many more.

That's not a contradiction at all.

James was trying to instruct that there is no other God, and that it was already knowledge among those with basic knowledge, to set the foundation for his speech. Paul was instructing a people who had a hard time knowing better.

Read with some humanity instead of judgment, fiend. You'll learn a lot more and you'll be less of a scoundrel.

LOL...did you just call me a "fiend"? or did you mean "friend"? I'm assuming the first, since you also called me a scoundrel. (oh, and by the way...James didn't say that, Paul did)
Wow, you know, you gave a whole page of explanation earlier in this thread of how mistreated you were as a kid. It was heartbreaking. I'm sorry you experienced all that. Just an "FYI"...you aren't the only one who's experienced pain in this lifetime.
Oh, and I do have a "personal relationship" with God. Heard him speak to my spirit, have battled demonic entities, been filled with the Spirit when I asked Jesus into my life at 22 years of age. I'm not an unbeliever. I spent 25 years digesting and regurgitating Paul's ca-ca. It took many, many years of not listening to the Holy Spirit showing me that he was a liar and a wolf in sheep's clothing, to finally get to a point one day (at another stupid sermon based all on Paul's doctrine), that I had a belly full and went home to finally investigate WHY I had such misgivings about him.
Dude, I've been YOU. You haven't said one thing that I haven't heard or said myself. Same with Noturtypical's posts. You two sound just like every other Paulian Christian. I don't doubt you have a legitimate relationship with God. I did as well, even when I truly believed Paul was an apostle. But, I questioned, and found out I wasn't the only person out there (Christian) who thought they were crazy for thinking Paul wasn't legit.
Now, I wonder how many entities are out there that masquerade as the ONE TRUE GOD.
I still believe in Jesus. Not YHWH, though. Any god that requires the sacrifice of animals is no good god to me. Aside from all the other atrocities he not only commanded, but did. That is, if he's even real. That's up for debate, too.
The God I encountered was nothing like that. And yes, He's spoken to me....many, many times.
But, if you need to believe the Bible is "the Holy Inerrant Word of GOD"...more power to ya. I don't anymore. Though, I know there is something good outside this 3d world, that isn't correctly represented in said book.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Paul was very clear about ritual law, keeping the sabbath, keeping Kosher

Where do you stop and where do you start with what you choose to obey
Don't work Sunday's? No big issue, just why ignore the other Old Testament commandments.

Goshredak acknowledged the 10 commandments and latter suggested 6 through to 10 were extra special, hearing lies our problem
The laws that are easy, extra special, become more important

I love how a Christian church will condemn homosexuals But won't condemn lust. Simply because there are very few people struggling with homosexuality in the church.

Though I am not familiar with Christian Liberty, I will,go and learn

It's not ignoring the commandments. It's understanding the intent of the commandments.

The Ten Commandments are Jewish law. The Jewish law is done.

But to consider those commandments and their intent isn't wrong.

The Christian Commandments are these: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Upon these hang the law and the prophets.

And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.

If we do these, we will do well.

Jesus has made it far simpler than everyone wants it to be.

That's the reason few find the way. Because it's so incredibly simple. In a world of complexity, that is a hard thing to find.

If cavtrooper wants to consider the 10 Commandments, by all means, let him. That's FINE. It doesn't interfere with the love of God.

Cavtrooper is an adult, its not my intention to decide what he chooses to do with his life.
I am sure his parents instilled a fair amount of common sense into him

My issue remains, if we accept the Jewish law as a standard, where do we stop accepting the law as our standard
Stone adulterers, circumcision, stone gays et al.
Let love be your guide.


and sorry
What is this about
And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.
Do you believe Christians shouldnt eat strangled food or animals sacrificed to idols
Really

That's exactly what is commanded by the Holy Spirit for the gentiles. I don't know where the confusion lies here.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Paul was very clear about ritual law, keeping the sabbath, keeping Kosher

Where do you stop and where do you start with what you choose to obey
Don't work Sunday's? No big issue, just why ignore the other Old Testament commandments.

Goshredak acknowledged the 10 commandments and latter suggested 6 through to 10 were extra special, hearing lies our problem
The laws that are easy, extra special, become more important

I love how a Christian church will condemn homosexuals But won't condemn lust. Simply because there are very few people struggling with homosexuality in the church.

Though I am not familiar with Christian Liberty, I will,go and learn

It's not ignoring the commandments. It's understanding the intent of the commandments.

The Ten Commandments are Jewish law. The Jewish law is done.

But to consider those commandments and their intent isn't wrong.

The Christian Commandments are these: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Upon these hang the law and the prophets.

And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.

If we do these, we will do well.

Jesus has made it far simpler than everyone wants it to be.

That's the reason few find the way. Because it's so incredibly simple. In a world of complexity, that is a hard thing to find.

If cavtrooper wants to consider the 10 Commandments, by all means, let him. That's FINE. It doesn't interfere with the love of God.

Cavtrooper is an adult, its not my intention to decide what he chooses to do with his life.
I am sure his parents instilled a fair amount of common sense into him

My issue remains, if we accept the Jewish law as a standard, where do we stop accepting the law as our standard
Stone adulterers, circumcision, stone gays et al.
Let love be your guide.


and sorry
What is this about
And for the gentiles, no greater burden was laid upon us. Our commandments are to not eat anything sacrificed to idols, eat nothing strangled, eat no blood, and do not fornicate.
Do you believe Christians shouldnt eat strangled food or animals sacrificed to idols
Really

That's exactly what is commanded by the Holy Spirit for the gentiles. I don't know where the confusion lies here.

Where does the answer lie
You are not explaining your position very clearly at all, just making a statement, almost dictating
I further investigated
bible.org...


and further
markmoore.org...

and because its contested
www.reclaimingthemind.org...

So I dont believe in idols and live in a country where halal slaughtered meat is the norm
Woe is me, I just have to eat pork then

Your point is valid, it just seems legalistic re the meat blood and idols
Fair call

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

I'll stick with what I know is true. I saw my own leg grow out an inch and my back problems never returned.

Wow, what a coincidence. The preacher who led me in prayer had this happen to him as well

One leg shorter than another is a pretty common cause of chronic back pain. Not a big coincidence at all.

His leg also grew an inch right b4 his eyes. Praise the Lord

Hey guy's,
I have something for you to ponder....do you think blood is ever TRULY EVER out of the flesh of animals?? So, when James told Paul to pass along to the new gentile believers, to not eat things strangled (hmmmm....wonder what is strangled (perhaps fish, when suffocating??), or things with "no blood", maybe...just maybe....James was a vegetarian.
Maybe the WHOLE DANG issue between Paul and the true followers of Jesus was the whole issue of eating animals AND keeping the TRUE law of God...which Jesus actually showed us. He WAS the Torah. Not the bull#e Torah the Jews were following....but the actual WORD of the MOST HIGH. He entered this realm to show everyone that God was not some self serving, animal sacrificing, misogynistic, genocidal maniac. He didn't exclude the lost, the destitute, or the broken (as YHWH did). He wasn't legalistic (as YHWH was). He was pure and total love.
Cause if you actually study the Essenes and the Ebionites AND the Nazarenans. You will find that they were ALL vegetarians, and a real God of love would NOT make a world that was predatory or that told people they could kill a sentient being and it was ok.
Then you have this little tidbit by Paul...

One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. Romans 14:2

Oh gee....Paul has an issue with vegetarians. Wonder why? Paul also contradicted Jesus on the whole "eating things sacrificed to idols" issue.
Maybe it's important. Ya think? So much has been "tweaked" in the book held as "holy and infallible". But, you can figure it out if you dig. There are many sources outside the bible that show there was a much bigger picture.
Unfortunately, if you are "indoctrinated", you won't dig. You'll be AFRAID to dig. THAT'S what Christianity does to a person....it makes them AFRAID. You can't challenge, you can't question, you can't go outside "the bible", cause if you do, and it raises questions that can't be answered in standard "Christianese"....you are ostracized, called a "scoundrel", told you are deceived and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Pretty much damned. Yay. What wonderful religion.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

Unfortunately, if you are "indoctrinated", you won't dig. You'll be AFRAID to dig. THAT'S what Christianity does to a person....it makes them AFRAID. You can't challenge, you can't question, you can't go outside "the bible", cause if you do, and it raises questions that can't be answered in standard "Christianese"....you are ostracized, called a "scoundrel", told you are deceived and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Pretty much damned. Yay. What wonderful religion.

What nonsense. utter nonsense

I just gave you the information you are crowing about 2 posts above, detailed and three sides of the argument

Sounds like you are afraid to dig, afraid to question and argue
2 posts above, only 2 posts above, 3 links to explain the issue and it is all subjective to an individual to decide for themselves what course they choose
Unbelievable how you can twist whats clearly linked, explained and described into ignorance

Christianity teaches people to make up their own mind on scripture, IT DEMANDS that the word of God be STUDIED

“This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.” Joshua 1:8

“Oh how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day.” Psalm 119:97

“May my meditation be pleasing to him, for I rejoice in the Lord.” Psalm 104:34

2 Timothy 2:15 ESV / Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Unbelievable how a little ignorance can create a foolish argument

Christianity does not do that to a person, lying deceitful leaders do, ignorance like yours makes them believe it

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

Unfortunately, if you are "indoctrinated", you won't dig. You'll be AFRAID to dig. THAT'S what Christianity does to a person....it makes them AFRAID. You can't challenge, you can't question, you can't go outside "the bible", cause if you do, and it raises questions that can't be answered in standard "Christianese"....you are ostracized, called a "scoundrel", told you are deceived and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Pretty much damned. Yay. What wonderful religion.

What nonsense. utter nonsense

I just gave you the information you are crowing about 2 posts above, detailed and three sides of the argument

Sounds like you are afraid to dig, afraid to question and argue
2 posts above, only 2 posts above, 3 links to explain the issue and it is all subjective to an individual to decide for themselves what course they choose
Unbelievable how you can twist whats clearly linked, explained and described into ignorance

Christianity teaches people to make up their own mind on scripture, IT DEMANDS that the word of God be STUDIED

“This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.” Joshua 1:8

“Oh how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day.” Psalm 119:97

“May my meditation be pleasing to him, for I rejoice in the Lord.” Psalm 104:34

2 Timothy 2:15 ESV / Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Unbelievable how a little ignorance can create a foolish argument

Christianity does not do that to a person, lying deceitful leaders do, ignorance like yours makes them believe it

Oh, so now I'm ignorant?? And speaking "nonsense". Really? Is that the best you can do? I'll tell you something else, I'm not "foolish" (as Paul would say), nor am I deceived. I'm so done with all the BS that Christianity offers. You know something Raggedyman, I've been down your road. I've read the Bible backwards, forwards, and then some....and found that there is TRUTH in it, and there are LIES in it. Basically, there are LIARS in it. So, to tell me that I'm ignorant is the height of arrogance. I DO know that there are basic fundamental truths in this universe. Spiritual laws, so to speak. ONE OF THEM is to do NO HARM to a being that FEELS it. So, answer me this question....would you hurt another sentient being that FEELS PAIN?
Cause if you can say yes to that question, then don't give some bull#e that you are merciful. You have no IDEA of mercy.
You can NOT say you follow Christ and cause agony to another being. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy". Do you think that only applies to HUMANS? Why? Because your YHWH said so? Your YWHW also demands blood....including his own son's. You are the one deceived, because you can't get past your appetite for flesh of something that had do die so you could enjoy it's flesh, because YOUR GOD told you it was acceptable.
Your God told you women are "less than" men. Your God told you that he hates the sacrifice of detestable animals to idols, but also told you that goats, sheep, baby lambs, WHATEVER are an acceptable and pleasing aroma to him.
Your god is a jerk.
That's not the GOD I know. But, if that's who you entwine Jesus with, I feel sorry for you. Jesus was NOTHING like YHWH. NOTHING.
And if you want some links to understand where I'M coming from, I will be happy to supply them. Though, you wouldn't read them. Nor, will I read yours. I can't stand anything "Christian" anymore. It makes me sick to my stomach....and I was one for a very long, long, time.

Oh, and love your "crowing" comment at the beginning of your post. Nice dig. I'm crowing. No, I'm laughing my butt off at you. You are the typical Christian male, who when challenged acts like a douche. I don't crow. I speak. You may not like it, but I'm not a freaking crow, I'm not ignorant, and I'm certainly not deluded. Maybe you should educate yourself on what animals go through that we eat every day. Or hey, look around you at the world and ask yourself....why do animals eat EACH OTHER? Hmmm, where's the loving god in all that? Oh yea, it's all Eve's fault.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Hi Gnosisfaith, nice rant
Thought it was you

You crow about christians not digging and I showed clearly we as christians are taught to study the bible to account ourselves worthy, yes its a work of the Spirit
2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Looks like you addressed everything but my comments about studying the word
Studying the word is a command

Granted many dont but that is not something that christianity teaches

Nice deflection though you fail

Unfortunately, if you are "indoctrinated", you won't dig. You'll be AFRAID to dig. THAT'S what Christianity does to a person....it makes them AFRAID. You can't challenge, you can't question, you can't go outside "the bible", cause if you do, and it raises questions that can't be answered in standard "Christianese"....you are ostracized, called a "scoundrel", told you are deceived and blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Yes, we are commanded in the bible to do all those things you said we shouldnt do, if indoctrinated then no, they wont.
Its not what christianity does, its lying leaders

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I certainly hope you get more stars.
I had a rough draft and a vaguely formed outline as a complete response to the OP.
Now I can delete, because I don't think I could do better than you just did.