Theory to explain Telepathy, and other applications

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979
It suggests speech can be derived from brainwaves alone, which would be more than just noise as you posted.

But their hit rates are abysmally awful, even after training to an individual, because the fine detail isn't there, and isn't going to be.

I can tell you that it's a lot easier to put the electrodes a bit farther down, and you can pick internal vocalization off your tongue and pharynx based on their involuntary motions. You'd be surprised how accurate that can be. But it's not fieldable. SORDAC tried.

But as you said it's not telepathy, that is why I mentioned it is done with electrodes, which are ofcourse attached directly to the brain.

If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

a reply to: Bedlam

Words like "woo" and "magic" describe not parapsychology nor the science of such. Seems to me you have hijacked the thread based on the fear of "woo". Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe not....

Either way.... the below excerpt is for you to ponder and if you want even more insight read the entire link as you may find this isn't "woo" or "magic". It's frankly a study which will bring more insight into perhaps entanglement or non-locality maybe even help us better understand psi. Nothing to fear with science.... we are always learning. This isn't some new age blab... it's a study and one of which people like me find very interesting.

Don't knock something just because you don't understand it.

www.patriziotressoldi.it...

Independent of the theoretical leaning one wishes to adopt, the structure is always the same: we have to make assumptions and stipulate presuppositions in order for any scientific model to work. The presuppositions made by the “scientific” model are rarely explicitly discussed and very often taken for granted by those “doing science”. Among them are the following: • The assumption that systems can be analytically separated and studied in isolation. What we learn from those separated systems can be then put together to a mosaic of the whole: the analytical assumption. • The assumption that the most important and the relevant section of the world is described by material and energetic interactions: the materialist assumption. • The assumption that all causes are local and regular; they are mediated by contiguous contact and interaction of material particles that convey the energetic interaction, and by the same token that causes from a distance have to be and can be analysed in terms of local chains of particle interactions: the localist assumption. • The assumption that the world is regular, at least those parts of the world that are relevant for us. Stretches in time and in space are uniform: the regularity assumption. This is neither a comprehensive nor an exclusive list, but sums up what to me are the most problematic assumptions of the currently accepted model when it comes to the understanding of mind-matter interactions.

By doing experiments in the framework of science,
parapsychology subscribed to these assumptions, probably unwittingly
and also involuntarily. Every psychokinesis (PK) experiment that tries to
document a direct influence of mental events on material events assumes
that there is some sort of “influence” that is mediated by some sort of
agent – a “PK force”, some sort of radiation or similar regular influence
–, can be enacted and replicated by others and documented by stringent
experimentation.
Since conventional science is often also fraught with sources of errors
and mistakes, it has become part of the standard procedure to not only
do an experiment, but to repeat it, ideally by different experimenters and
in different locations or under different circumstances to probe for causal
stability and generalisability (Schmidt, 2009)

For data relating to the topic of the OP see this link which has data by Bösch, Boller & Steinkamp and Walter von Lucadou.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: BIGPoJo
Look at your hand, make it move, that is literally mind over matter.

Not at all. Your hand is connected physically to your brain with structures that are specifically evolved to respond to neural states.

Now, if you could look at MY hand and make it move, that would be mind over matter.

thats not true bedlam. Women are able to give me certain looks that can make parts of my body physicaly move. Even change shape!

Hey Bedlam help me flesh out my crazy theory here.

Wasnt there some study that some scientists did that concluded (not sure if it was debunked or not ) that the brain has microtubules that are sensative to quantum fluctuations or something (too lazy to actually look up what the exact wording they used was)

I think they were using it to describe consciousness. That part I disagree with, since I firmly believe consciousness is just the conjugate of our nuerons and various systems firing. A ghost in the machine so to speak.

However what about the "virtual EM vacuum waveform of space" ZPF or whatever its called.
if thats real then I look at all of space as this one giant virtual EM waveform thats literally everywhere at once in the universe and mostly homogenous. Mostly.

Could these microtubules be sensitive enough to in some small scale detect slight perturbation of that virtual EM field or fluctuations in it? Could a psuedo message be broadcast into it. Ie your own brain thinking changes minutely the field in some discrete way via these microtubules and now that change is out there everywhere and able to be detected anywhere else in the universe where the virtual em field is effected by other microtubules. Their brains and cognitive functions if similar to ours interpreting our induced fluctuations similarly to the original thought that created them like telepathy in a very crude sense. won't work if their thought process is totally alien to ours and instead they see, hear or imagine something completely different since their brain and microtubules interpret the changes differently. Giving rise to esp like phenomena. Remote viewing etc. Like some weird ass holonet.

Like could you through intense observation alter this field just enough to be detectable to other microtubules.

Also, if potentially true, could I possibly use this "observer physics" esp trick (not the actual branch of physics called observer) to effect my neighbors noisy cockatiel?

Cause heres my plan. I stare intently at the bird thinking in my mind "come on hydrogen change modes and turn into positronium I really hate this bird" and then 5 minutes later of this effort I see a bright flash of light and a smoldering birdcage with a few singed feathers floating threw the air and a smudged stain on the bottom of the cage that used to be petie the cockatiel. And the neighbor going "petie? PETIE NOOO!!!!!! What happened!!!! "

But,But....you are supposed to believe the ones that set the rules in this world. We have lost our ability to communicate with each other through thought waves like all the other animals and insects can. Everything is coincidence, we are not linked subconsciously to others. We have to believe as others do and we are conditioned to believe like. Only what is accepted by those running things is real.

If you believe otherwise, you need to take some anti-acetycholine medications because you are thinking to much. It will help them control you.

a reply to: DeadCat

Very interesting. But, a question? Is your theory based on years of study, professional studies, university trials, experiences and personal testimonies? Or is it just what you think without studying all of the above over time, to make your conclusions current and past?

A lot of opinions and statements we may make, and some youv'e made...seem a bit negligent of the current conclusions, past revelations and proven examples. Some worked, others didnt leading to conclusions.

I respectfully ask you this because you defined in your title that telepathy is an "application" and not a method to exhibit a form of proven paranormal and psychic ability.

It CAN be applied, but in no way is an "application". I will be following this thread here with interest. Great thread!

MS

originally posted by: MamaJ

For data relating to the topic of the OP see this link which has data by Bösch, Boller & Steinkamp and Walter von Lucadou.

Yet another paper that's big on hypothesizing various buzzword quantum mechanisms, but with no experimental data that provides a falsifiable proof that that is even involved. If indeed the phenomenon even exists, which is also sort of questionable.

When you ring in 'quantum' this or that and have no data and no approach, that's woo, even if it's a real live parapsychologist.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

That's Penrose and Hameroff. The microtubule thing came in when Hameroff went looking for a structure in the cell small enough to force its electrons into some sort of BEC.

Penrose's argument is basically, if humans can formulate and comprehend Godel's incompleteness theorem, that thought has to therefore be non-computable. A statement that I do not believe to be true. So Penrose went looking for a way that the brain doesn't use algorithmic processes, and that's where the quantum thing came in.

However, Penrose doesn't postulate that therefore your mind somehow lives in another universe or something, just that it's using non-algorithmic processes to function. But all the woo slingers leapt onto the Cartesian regression bandwagon, despite philosophy sort of discarding that one a few hundred years back.

Oddly enough, "Petie" seems to be a name of ill-omen for birds. We had a budgie named Petie, and I hated that damned thing until the day of its death. It was a sort of flying face-seeking bird of death, and would, let out of its cage, immediately go for the throat of any bystander, trying to gouge out your eyes and snap off your nose and possibly an earlobe or two.

a reply to: DeadCat

Everything is energy. You're right about matching frequencies, but it has nothing to do with lowering them. For instance, it has long been known that people who are tripping together (like on psychedelic mushrooms, for instance) report being able to communicate with one another, sometimes telepathically. It's because of that connection on a spiritual level. It has to do with empathy. If you can see yourself in the other person's shoes--literally--then you can communicate. That's why some couples seem to be telepathic with one another--because they're so close that their energies sync together in unison with one another.

There's no set radio station, as far as I know. We are on all of them, at different times--it's all based on our emotions at that given point in time. So that is why, if we are looking out for it, we notice bad vibes. People who choose to be ignorant of their own emotions don't pick up on bad vibes because they have blinders on, in a sense. You can't notice evil if you ignore the evil you have inside of you. Once you get in touch with who you really are, things like this aren't so lofty to imagine.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: BIGPoJo
Look at your hand, make it move, that is literally mind over matter.

Not at all. Your hand is connected physically to your brain with structures that are specifically evolved to respond to neural states.

Now, if you could look at MY hand and make it move, that would be mind over matter.

My post made both your hands move.

Impressed?

originally posted by: rukia
a reply to: DeadCat

Everything is energy.

Matter isn't.

You're right about matching frequencies...

Frequencies of what, exactly? All 'frequency' means is, how often something happens per unit of time. But it doesn't specify the something. If YOU don't, or can't, then you don't know enough about the phenomena to know if it's cyclic. How do you know 'telepathy' HAS a frequency? Or that you're raising, lowering, or changing it at all? Or that it exists? With no means of measuring it, it's an awfully big claim.

originally posted by: BIGPoJo

My post made both your hands move.

Impressed?

How do you know I didn't use Cortana?

a reply to: Bedlam

Yeah! Screw Rene'! I don't think and I still exist!

Sounds like your beloved petie thought he was a rhinoplastician.

They should cast him in some birds spin off horror movie. Just call it "bird"

the opening scene is of petie flying around chirping the jaws theme. Lands on the headrest of the bed a spoiled beverly hills rhinoplasty patient is asleep recovering in.

She wakes up to see petie perched above staring down on her, intently eyeing the newly modled nose with malic in its tiny beating evil heart.

[Scene Cuts to an outside shot of the house]
"Eeeiiiiieee!!!"

[Scene 2-few hours later. House now a crime scene with yellow police tape everywhere and a half dozen police detectives milling about]
Detective 1: "sir we believe the this was the work of the 'Egocentric Eradicator' it fits the MO and its the fifth trophy wife desecrated this month in the bel air estates area! No sign of breaking and entering. Just leaves his signature of lone yellow bird feather next to the victims pillow case. the sick bastard! What do you think the feathers mean?"

Detective 2: "i dont know but 'im getting too old for this S#*#!' Geeezuz! why cant we catch this perp?!? Its like he vanishes into thin air and flys off somewhere each time!"




I dont understand why hollywood keeps rejecting my movie script ideas.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I hated that little bastard. He was the flying budgerigar of death. The problem was, he LIKED Mom, and would happily sit on her shoulder bobbing his little blood stained beak, nuzzling her cheek and chirruping like a real bird. Until she left, then it was like the rabbit scene from Holy Grail. The damned thing would go for your eyes, only instead of "Pete's a pretty bird!" it was "your mother # # in hell!" whilst he gouged your face with his razor sharp beak. Somehow, she managed to ignore the wounds, the crimson glowing eyeballs and the bloody gobbets of flesh dangling from Petie's beak, and blamed us for the carnage.

I had a piece of toy motorized field artillery with a wired remote that would shoot a very heavy projectile, you had to cock the damned thing with your feet at my age, and I finally succeeded in shooting Pete off of the door perch of his fortress of doom one day. He almost went pining for the fjords but recovered, and was never quite as bold ever again.

a reply to: Bedlam

Thatll teach him. "Petie want an ass whoopin?"

a reply to: Bedlam

Did you read the link? I would think you would have gotten more out of it than what you wrote.

What about this link... ? deanradin.com...
It's from the Journal of Scientific Exploration. Yep.... scientists are really studying this phenomena as if it's a real thing.

The paper is called... "Assessing the Evidence for Mind-Matter Interaction Effects"

By: Dean Radin who is with Consciousness Research Laboratoly, Institute of Noetic Sciences, Petaluma, CA
ROGER NELSON AND YORK DOBYNS with Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory, Princeton University
Joop Houtkooper with Center for Psychobiology and Behavioral Medicine,Justus-Liebig-University of Giessen, Germany

For scientists with Type I temperament, this loop is destined to cycle indefinitely in spite of the application of the most rigorous scientific methods. The stalemate can be broken only by Type I1 scientists who are willing to entertain the possibility that Nature consists of many curious phenomena, some of which are not yet adequately accounted for by prevailing theories.

Have you looked into the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Scientific Study of Consciousness-Related Physical Phenomena? ( PEAR ) www.princeton.edu...

Have you also looked into Psyleron? www.psyleron.com...

And what about The Society of Scientific Exploration www.scientificexploration.org... which is "Peer-reviewed research on consciousness, physics, alternative energy, healing, and more"

Here is something from years ago by Chief Science and Health correspondent, Robert Bazell, with NBC News which makes me wonder how long and what the governement actually knows regarding mind over matter. I have a feeling they know much more on the subject than you or I. More than likely they have been studying and perfected such things as remote viewing. Why would they ever tell a population of 7 billion the secret to unlocking the human brain which can lead to knowing everyones next move? It would be secret intelligence and used as defense.

It looks like a simple video game, but look closer and you can see that Scott Hamel is moving colored squares on the screen without touching any controls. He's not even moving at all. It's his brain waves that control the computer cursor.

Brain waves are the very weak electrical signals given off by the firing of millions of nerve cells in the brain. They can be measured by wires in a cap placed on the outside of the head.

www.nbcnews.com...

Here's a link to a post I made not so long ago related to this subject.

It's just links, but very interesting links.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

On second hand. Let me repost it:

A call for an open, informed study of all aspects of consciousness

Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science


Related ATS thread

Related link

Related post I made not so long ago

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: Bedlam

Did you read the link? ...Institute of Noetic Sciences

There you go.

Sure, we know a lot about neurons. And yes, you can use biofeedback to learn how to move mouse cursors. Neither of which has any relevance to 'quantum this or that'.

INS is a prime woo factory, btw.

If I claim that some facet of consciousness is 'quantum' with no way of proving is or isn't, or it being falsifiable, one might as well appeal to dark matter, or the adeledicnander force.

ETA: Princeton finally cut PEAR loose after no other lab could reproduce it. And they have stated that's the end of that sort of research.

a reply to: Bedlam

I think Jahn was dead on when he stated “For 28 years, we’ve done what we wanted to do, and there’s no reason to stay and generate more of the same data,” said the laboratory’s founder, Robert G. Jahn, 76, former dean of Princeton’s engineering school and an emeritus professor. “If people don’t believe us after all the results we’ve produced, then they never will.”

Their research has no doubt paved the way for new ideas to come to light and fresh minds to take the research PEAR conducted over 3 decades and use it to prove the existence of such phenomena.

To admit you nor others in the "know all" do not know all regarding the quantum level is silly at best. Science should never be in a box... reminds me of religion. Scientific minds held in a box stay in a box. Won't allow us to advance at all. Our technology is more than enough proof we are expanding our knowledge quickly and perhaps there is more proven than what we know. I would say that last statement is 100% likely!!

If I claim that some facet of consciousness is 'quantum' with no way of proving is or isn't, or it being falsifiable, one might as well appeal to dark matter, or the adeledicnander force.

It continues to be studied in depth despite the ones crying "woo".

Our model may imply that, at the quantum scale, an underlying electromagnetically defined order may have been present, that was a prerequisite for the coding of synthesis and functional arrangement of cellular elements in biological evolution. Far infrared dynamics, reminiscent of coherent nonrelativistic super fluids in 3+1-dimensions, may have played a role. Finally, we address the question whether the identified electromagnetic fields may also influence neural systems in general and human (self) consciousness in particular. We are finding support for recent electromagnetic and stochastic zero-point energy field theories in quantum consciousness studies. The striking similarity of electromagnetic wave frequencies, detected by us in the biological studies, and in selected clay minerals, as well as in color spectra, tone scales and sound induced geometric Chladni patterns, may indicate that we identified the involvement of a universal electromagnetic principle, that underlies the observed life sustaining effects and also may have been instrumental in the creation of biological order in first life and quantum consciousness.

search.proquest.com...

originally posted by: MamaJ

It continues to be studied in depth despite the ones crying "woo".

IMO anyone crying "Woo" should not be taken seriously anymore. They're not open to a real discussion on the subject.