Is Francis the last Pope? A rare interview with Archbishop Ganswein

a reply to: 5StarOracle

NOPE . . .

Peter . . . as a very flawed mortal . . . was inadequate for such a role.

That verse must have referred to something larger than Peter.

One possibility is the FAITH that Peter demonstrated.

There is another option I recently read. I don't have it handy but it was also plausible. i.e.

That the area Christ had that discussion at Caesarea Philippi sits at the far northern region of Bashan. It was considered to contain a gateway to the realm of the dead.

Caesarea sits at the foot of a mountain. It's plausible to author Michael Heiser (Supernatural: What the Bible teaches about the unseen world--and why it matters) that the rock is that mountain. He essentially contends that Christ was noting that Christ's Church Universal (NOT the RCC) would reign over the realm of the dead as Christ would be conquering that realm on the Cross and at the Resurrection.

In any case . . . the RCC has not remotely lived up to the billing on that score. A POLITICAL institution pretending to be the spiritual church of Christ Universal doesn't cut it.

= = = =

a reply to: BO XIAN

The alleged prophecies were first published by Benedictine monk Arnold Wion in 1595. Wion attributes the prophecies to Saint Malachy, a 12th-century Archbishop of Armagh, Ireland.

Given the very accurate description of popes up to around 1590 and lack of accuracy for the popes that follow, historians generally conclude that the alleged prophecies are a fabrication written shortly before they were published. Certain theologians in the Roman Catholic Church have dismissed them as forgery
en.wikipedia.org...

Why would a non-Roman Catholic give credence to a 16th century Roman Catholic forgery attributed to a 12th century Roman Catholic saint?

It does seem strange that Catholic News Agency has that headline. Odd. Perhaps if large numbers of Roman Catholics believe the so-called prophecy it will be self-fulfilling?

a reply to: pthena

The origin of the list of Popes prophecy is hotly debated.

And, I don't find that the accuracy is all that different through the centuries. I realize others disagree--though my perspective is also held by many.

I think that Cris Putnam and Tom Horn in EXO-VATICANA did the most extensive analysis on it that I've read. IIRC, their conclusion was that there seems to be something interesting about the list . . . that is not explainable by conventional means.

Yes, the RCC house-organ headline and article are at least curious. It sounds like many in the hierarchy believe the list has some significant validity.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: BO XIAN

No, this is not the last Pope.

And you know this , how ? Seem pretty sure being the future is always an unknown. Either you jest or you have an insider's view on the future.
Since you are so sure , who is going to be the next Pope? Or at least the winning lottery ticket numbers. (I know , that one is sooo overused)

a reply to: pthena

Because if you read the seven letters and its layers of meaning, at the end, true believers will come from everywhere, every tribe, every nation, every church even which is part of what that bit addresses, IMO. That means even Catholics will come out of the church even if the church itself is the main organ to set up something very bad in the days to come.

So if Malachy was truly given insight, then plenty will see it, no matter where they are located.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I think pope Francis will fulfill prophecy, not that he is the last leader of the Catholic church or successor of Peter, rather than it is the last time of the current era. Something major will happen during his pontificate (that is in several more years or this year) that will change our understanding of that all, and very likely our way of life as civilization. Therefore the next successors won't formally fit in prophecy, nevertheless they will continue until the Second Coming of Jesus.

a reply to: ketsuko

Hi ketsuko;

I like the avatar. Is that part llama?

I am assuming that you are referring to the seven letters to the seven churches in the Book of Revelation, and the voice from heaven saying 'come out of her my people, so that you will not share in her sins.' (Rev 18:4).

Here's all I could find of the Prophecy of the Popes:

This may be translated into English as:

In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit [i.e., as bishop].

Peter the Roman, who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations, and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills [i.e. Rome] will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The End.
en.wikipedia.org...

I can understand where people who have been taught to equate Mystery Babylon with Papal Rome (such as Protestants and non-Protestant/non-Catholic Christians) would conflate these ideas.

However, consider this docudrama of my own:

The writer sits in the dim candlelight, arches his back to relieve tightened muscles,
"For crying out loud! How long should I make this list go? My eyes ache and my fingers are cramping up.
That's it! I'm going to end it right here!
. . .
Let's see now: uhm, persecution is supposed to extend to the end ... so ... troublous times ... and yeah the last judgment... okay, got it:

'In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church (initialized because my fingers are so cramped)
. . .
the end'

now I just have to come up with a story as to how I found this old writing"

disclaimer: the preceding docudrama is a work of fiction. Endorsed by no one, reflecting the views of no one except the actual author. No animals were hurt. No people were hurt, as long as the audience holds to the mantra Sticks and Stones.

archbishop Gainshwein is warning us of the imminent. If his public view endorses Malachi at the time of the last pope in the list, that means the influential figure that served two popes says, it is going to happen. Let also notice that Vatican top clergy knows more, not less, than the publicly announced prophecies.

When will all take place? I have one or two threads on that. This year 2016 seems the best year for Fatima so far, because 2017 is already too close to the 100th mark, even inside it. We are not talking of dates but of periods of events, with a starting date that by all logic should precede them. I.e. we cannot await miraculous fulfillment of era of peace on Oct 13 2017. And a Chastisement of 3 days of darkness a week before that. Such read of prophecy is wrong and it proved in past it just didn't work.

Much better approach is to look at contemporary events, political, planetary, and to see how they match the predicted many times in symbols, events for hundreds years. Malachi didn't know of America let alone of other planets.

I think it is a final time and call for all catholics who think with their own heads and are not recipients of ready solutions of 15 century, to start thinking on all that and sharing what they find for themselves to the wider audience on internet. At least critical thinking should be started as a result, that is not clearly seen and heard. With events practically fulfilling as we sleep (Brexit) one cannot afford to stay idle of ill understood humility.

I may add that too: many of us in this and other sites asked for disclosure of true info, including Vatican to say Fatima 3 etc. Well now archbishop Gainshwein said Malachi was right and he even shivered. So we receive what we asked for. May be too late, but only for those who just don't care.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I hope Catholics do away with the papacy altogether. The papacy is Nicolaitan. Meaning rule/conquer the laity (people).

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: pthena

I think that Cris Putnam and Tom Horn in EXO-VATICANA did the most extensive analysis on it that I've read. IIRC, their conclusion was that there seems to be something interesting about the list . . . that is not explainable by conventional means.

Wouldn't the fact that every one who chooses the pope is aware of the prophecy explain it.

By following the prophecy they are able to give legitimacy to both wild claims.

Whether they are willing to follow it through and throw away that cash cow is another question of course.

... Do you really want to know when and how the "end" comes? Read the last chapter of the Bible, much of it seems out there...but beyond cryptic is essentially the same as above top secret. Mystery Babylon the great is either great Britain or USA. Either way it will be destroyed in one hour. We only recently can imagine how such a destruction can possibly happen so quickly. If I was evil, and wanted to destroy let's say America...the 4th of July would be the path of less resistance. We'll see. I sincerely hope I am wrong. Faith is the opposite of fear.

That's about three cents.
-K

originally posted by: Cynic
With all due respect to those that care: Who cares?

But the Pope said some marriages are invalid and a random Jesuit is heading some bigoted religious movement in the US. Wake up sheeple, or maybe don't if you are sheep for jesus i guess maybe. It all means........well I have no clue.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

They will . . . when The Boss insists on it or simply makes it absurd by His Presence ruling from Jerusalem.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I don't think that washes as an explanation.

Some of the titles of the Popes that fit the prophecies of Malachi . . .

were not known--certainly at the time of the voting for said Pope. They only became evident after--sometimes significantly after.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Thanks for that.

I clearly didn't understand the full circumstances of the prophecy.

Although it could explain the post 1500's popes. The 400 years before could come down to it being a forgery made shortly before it was "discovered" in the archives. It is strange that something like this would be forgotten about for 100's of years.

What is your opinion on the clarity of the predictions?

The very limited research I've done seems to say that the predictions before the discovery are a lot more accurate.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I also don't think the Vatican has officially recognized the prophecy of the popes as a valid one. They are certainly aware of it, yes, but there is no official stance. So it would be strange for them to have a prophecy of unofficial stance to be something they would actively work to fulfill with their voting.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

whether Malachi prophecies are true or not, only God knows...as two famous authors said, it doesn't matter how true prophecy is, it matters how much credibility people put in it. Especially people in position within Vatican.

To have literally the last pope, according to the Catholic view of what the papal figure represents, and the role of the Church until the end of days, means only one: to expect Jesus Christ. But that is not very likely to occur, although I'd like it to happen in my lifetime. So we may have to look wider than the strickt Catholic understanding of papal institution, role of Church in contemporary aspect, etc.

Prophets if true, have seen future regardless of contemporary frames. Thus St Seraphim of Sarov said of future renewed "orthodoxy". Well he could use the world renewed christianity, but then he would be accused of being not true orthodox in his century. The saints and the prophets transcended their times and narrow human frames. So what exactly St Malachi saw about the last pope in Rome and what it means, does not necessarily reflect the view of the majority of believers or their leaders.

We may have the last pope in its today's meaning, in the meaning of the centuries between Malachi and now. Peter didn't call himself a pope etc. There could be quite more successors of Peter, in or outside Rome (that is not obligatory too). The Church of Jesus Christ, Roman and others, would continue under some form until His return, we believe so as Christians in first place. The entire idea of a Second Coming here and now to put an end to all our human made problems, is not very well conceived. And I must say that the big figure of Augustine in the start of the Middle Ages, screwed it up by cutting and pasting parts of the Revelation timeline, and making it official church teaching, although never a dogma. I could say more and did so in other threads. We have to transcend even Augustine and the church fathers, in all that is not explicit dogma (I don't want to chalenge any dogma, we know new dogmas have been put even by modern popes). Our view of the world and the Church in it, is LIMITED at best. We have to understand God created a wider world than our understanding, than the Medieval understanding. We can't rely on medieval interpretation on it, or its modern verses that copy the model and only exchange the words with new ones. It would lead us nowhere.

If archbishop Ganswein said Malachi was true and was going to fulfill, then probably the popes believe that too (ex- Benedict and Francis) I expect the terrible judge to judge "his people" notice not the world as Jesus would. And a new era to start from now on. Why to protract the process? Let the pope help Lord Jesus, being his humble servant.

Don't understand me wrong, I want Jesus to come tomorrow. But if God's plan is something else, then let be open to God's plan whatever it is. Communicated to the prophets and saints, it is not retold to us in plain text, nowhere in history, but in symbols that derive contemporary interpretations. So were the prophets of old, so are the contemporary ones. Otherwise, we would have no prophets but direct revelation and manifestation of God's plan and will directly in the clouds for everyone to see. Perhaps that moment is not too far either. Being or not being part of the Second Coming. We will be told what it is at that moment. Yes some will call it blue beam or worse. And those people who pretend they are the smartest religious guys, fall short to understand that if Ezekiel called his experience with the supernatural "blue beam and satanic delusion" then we would not have his books and prophecies written down. Or those of any other prophet. Those holy men did not question God's revelation, they rather fulfilled it. Wish to be the case for the current religious leaders (far not only the pope) who often fail to fulfill the hi duties of their office. Prophecy is corrective of a system that forgot to prophecy as it did in early age. Why for example we were never told the entire Fatima, in all honesty? Because there is something big coming that they don't want the people know.

a reply to: ketsuko

That's a good point.

The prophecies aren't that convincing on closer look however.

I guess that's the beauty of vague predictions. The less information you give the more options you have to choose to prove it afterwards.

a reply to: 2012newstart

That's the problem with all this sort of religious propaganda. It's believed until proven wrong and then thrown away or reclassified as figurative once it's proven wrong.

The constant changing from literal to figurative will continue until everything is figurative and open to anyone's interpretation. Any book that says anything says nothing.

The Fatima prophecy I was interested in until they said it was an assassination attempt. Many don't believe that however and expect to have the real one told. Although weren't all the prophecies meant to have happened within the kids lifetimes? And aren't they all dead now?

Seems to just be another prophecy revealed after the fact.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I wrote quite a long on Fatima and may be it is not the place here to repeat it. Malachi Martin said, that even the Neues Europa text that is by now the most extended one, does not include the core element of the 3rd secret (and certainly not the official version in 2000). That means, the core element is neither WW3 nor planetary cataclysm nor devil in the Vatican, because all of these are included in Neues Europa text (that was approved as close enough to the real one by then secretary of CDF or Holy Office card. Ottaviani).
How can we know what is cancelled or what is figurative if we don't know the real text in first place? It could be everything. IMO only one big issue is still a secret officially, and no more secret for internet users.